Just learn how to merge

[vampress_me]

Merging in MN has always been a free for all of idiots. About 15 years ago (maybe 20?) MN removed all the yield signs that were on on-ramps. Created an interesting chaos since it used to be that the traffic merging from the on-ramp had to yield to faster moving highway traffic. After removal of the signs, the merging traffic has the right of way (no matter what their speed) and those to their left (meaning those on the highway/ freeway) are supposed to move over for them, which includes braking if there is someone to your left so you cannot move over. If there was an accident because the one traveling on the highway did not move over for the merging traffic, the one traveling on the highway already was ticketed and found at fault for the accident. But, I can honestly not say if they have re-installed the yield signs or not in the past few years, just haven’t paid attention to that. And drive defensively.

But, I can also say that in MN at least, merging is the least of your worries if you are driving. We have so many entitled people that drive as if they are the only important ones out there, and so many that do not speak/read English that drive with no license (and therefore no idea of how to drive in the first place, especially in the Twin Cities) that the merge issue is a minor inconvenience. In general, I have not come across a worse state for driving in the past few years, and I’ve been east, west, and south of MN in quite a few states and large cities.

[rhagfo]

Got to agree with Jeff (OP), during Covid people really forgot how to drive. I see far more crazy driving now than before, poor merging, speeding, urging in and out of traffic, etc.
Around her there are passing lanes on two lane roads in the hills. I usually pull to the right as long as there isn’t a slow car in front of me. While the speed limit on these roads may be 55, most traffic travels about 60 to 65. I usually will travel with the flow. When I do pull to the right it never fails the vehicle that was 80 car lengths back races to pass you then slows to the 55 mph speed limit!

[peanut]

Originally Posted by vampress_me

Merging in MN has always been a free for all of idiots. About 15 years ago (maybe 20?) MN removed all the yield signs that were on on-ramps. Created an interesting chaos since it used to be that the traffic merging from the on-ramp had to yield to faster moving highway traffic. After removal of the signs, the merging traffic has the right of way (no matter what their speed) and those to their left (meaning those on the highway/ freeway) are supposed to move over for them, which includes braking if there is someone to your left so you cannot move over. If there was an accident because the one traveling on the highway did not move over for the merging traffic, the one traveling on the highway already was ticketed and found at fault for the accident. But, I can honestly not say if they have re-installed the yield signs or not in the past few years, just haven’t paid attention to that. And drive defensively.

Everything in your statement is false. See the attached photo from the current Minnesota Drivers Manual. I have had this "discussion" before with people who believe what you have written. Every time, when shown in their states drivers manual that they are wrong, they backpedal and usually admit that they didn't know what the rules actually were and were just going by what they had "heard" or "been told". Makes me wonder how many people ever actually read the darn manual. EVERY manual from EVERY state that I have looked at (which is quite a few) has similar verbiage.

[bsmith0404]

Originally Posted by peanut

Everything in your statement is false. See the attached photo from the current Minnesota Drivers Manual. I have had this "discussion" before with people who believe what you have written. Every time, when shown in their states drivers manual that they are wrong, they backpedal and usually admit that they didn't know what the rules actually were and were just going by what they had "heard" or "been told". Makes me wonder how many people ever actually read the darn manual. EVERY manual from EVERY state that I have looked at (which is quite a few) has similar verbiage.

I thought it was strange that one state would change from standard/normal driving rules. Although each state can be different, it’s typically pretty standard from one state to another. I can only imagine the chaos if every state were completely different. Although I thought it was strange, growing up 90 miles from the MN state line, it wouldn’t surprise me if MN did something that out of the ordinary. The land of 1 lake and 9,999 ponds one mud puddles never surprised me.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by peanut

Everything in your statement is false. See the attached photo from the current Minnesota Drivers Manual. I have had this "discussion" before with people who believe what you have written. Every time, when shown in their states drivers manual that they are wrong, they backpedal and usually admit that they didn't know what the rules actually were and were just going by what they had "heard" or "been told". Makes me wonder how many people ever actually read the darn manual. EVERY manual from EVERY state that I have looked at (which is quite a few) has similar verbiage.

Exactly what does the printed material in a driver's manual have to do with what the DOT does on a particular highway in real life? Nothing. The TX manual says the same thing but there are areas ALL over the state that don't work that way and even have signs saying so. I've had signs that say "yield to traffic entering" from ramp, entering traffic has right of way etc. The manual is a guideline and it certainly doesn't control how DOT constructs a particular exchange somewhere.

[flybouy]

Traffic laws? Road rules? Seems like every since the word Covid was spoken publicly the "rules of the road" and "traffic enforcement " has all but dissapeared. The current state of understaffed law enforcement departments and rising violent crime it's understandable that the focus of enforcement would shift.

The DW and I were discussing on our last trip how we noticed the absence of highway patrols. On a 350 mile trip we didn't see a single speed trap. We saw one sherrif's vehichle and judging from the time of day and where he was (he exited the highway where the sheriff's dept was) I'm guessing he was reporting for duty or finishing his shift.

In my opinion it seems like driving defensively and with heightened awareness has never been more important. I feel for parents that have a newly licensed teenager.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Exactly what does the printed material in a driver's manual have to do with what the DOT does on a particular highway in real life? Nothing. The TX manual says the same thing but there are areas ALL over the state that don't work that way and even have signs saying so. I've had signs that say "yield to traffic entering" from ramp, entering traffic has right of way etc. The manual is a guideline and it certainly doesn't control how DOT constructs a particular exchange somewhere.

Well that goes against everything I have ever been taught! Maybe Texas DMV and DOT should get together and get some agreement on the rules!

[TimC]

Originally Posted by flybouy

After towing campers I have an increased empathy for commercial truck drivers as I know they tolerate it ALL THE TIME.

Same here. I work in Supply Chain for a beverage manufacturer, so I had a lot of exposure to truckers who would pick up our product. I noticed how bad of a mood so many of them would be in all the time. After the first long trip towing my camper I completely understood. With how frustrating it was for me towing my 26’/6,000 lb camper, I couldn’t imagine dealing with some of the drivers on the road while being 70’ long and 80,000 lbs.

As far as worst drivers, I nominate Floridians for that honor.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Well that goes against everything I have ever been taught! Maybe Texas DMV and DOT should get together and get some agreement on the rules!

The signs placed by DOT at some places (not only in TX) sometimes do not follow what you read in a driver's manual. There are, and will be, exceptions in various locations that require it. There's what's written in the manual (which probably 75% have no idea) and the signage placed on the roadways directing traffic. The signs take precedence over what you read in the little manual.

[peanut]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Exactly what does the printed material in a driver's manual have to do with what the DOT does on a particular highway in real life? Nothing. The TX manual says the same thing but there are areas ALL over the state that don't work that way and even have signs saying so. I've had signs that say "yield to traffic entering" from ramp, entering traffic has right of way etc. The manual is a guideline and it certainly doesn't control how DOT constructs a particular exchange somewhere.

How in the world do you consider the manual a "guideline" when the written test is based on information in that manual? Tell the tester that you answered questions on the test wrong because, after all, the manual is "just a guideline" and see their reaction. Watch them laugh. Maybe they would pass you anyway. Sure.

Originally Posted by sourdough

The signs placed by DOT at some places (not only in TX) sometimes do not follow what you read in a driver's manual. There are, and will be, exceptions in various locations that require it. There's what's written in the manual (which probably 75% have no idea) and the signage placed on the roadways directing traffic. The signs take precedence over what you read in the little manual.

Exactly. Exceptions. The material in the manual is the general rule. When exceptions are needed they are signified by signage - on a case by case basis. That does not mean that the exception becomes the general rule. Just because someone hasn't read or remembered the manual does not change the rule. Remember the old adage, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by peanut

How in the world do you consider the manual a "guideline" when the written test is based on information in that manual? Tell the tester that you answered questions on the test wrong because, after all, the manual is "just a guideline" and see their reaction. Watch them laugh. Maybe they would pass you anyway. Sure.


Exactly. Exceptions. The material in the manual is the general rule. When exceptions are needed they are signified by signage - on a case by case basis. That does not mean that the exception becomes the general rule. Just because someone hasn't read or remembered the manual does not change the rule. Remember the old adage, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

What is your point/problem? What I said is accurate and your comments just support what I said. You study the manual or any other written material you are to be tested on, you give answers based on what you read in the manual and get graded. What you just read and were tested on may or may not have any bearing on real life situations. What are you missing?

[bsmith0404]

Originally Posted by sourdough

What is your point/problem? What I said is accurate and your comments just support what I said. You study the manual or any other written material you are to be tested on, you give answers based on what you read in the manual and get graded. What you just read and were tested on may or may not have any bearing on real life situations. What are you missing?

I think his point is the fact that one person stated the people merging in had the right away because they removed the yield signs. That’s not true, the state manual even states they do not. Then you stated the manual has nothing to do with real driving situations, that’s not true either. There may be occasions where there is an exception to the manual, but they post signs to indicate that. I think everyone agrees on that point.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

I think his point is the fact that one person stated the people merging in had the right away because they removed the yield signs. That’s not true, the state manual even states they do not. Then you stated the manual has nothing to do with real driving situations, that’s not true either. There may be occasions where there is an exception to the manual, but they post signs to indicate that. I think everyone agrees on that point.

I stated the state drivers manual has nothing to do with real driving situations (real time) because they change from town to town, state to state based on whatever DOT has placed in/on the roadway. They are not concrete in any/every situation. The manuals are the way it's "supposed to be" if something else doesn't interdict, like DOT. And I can assure you that road sign that DOT placed and the ticket received for ignoring it will never reference your "driver's manual". The manual is to familiarize people with basic driving functions, signs etc. and that's all - it is not the law unless stipulated in legislation.

The assertion that a member from MN is lying because someone in OR read a book about OR driving but has zero on the ground experience in that particular MN situation is egregious.

[bsmith0404]

Originally Posted by sourdough

The assertion that a member from MN is lying because someone in OR read a book about OR driving but has zero on the ground experience in that particular MN situation is egregious.

Well my understanding from reading their posts is she was saying MN removed the yield signs on the ramps and now the vehicles traveling on the highway must yield to merging traffic. No body said their were signs stating that merging traffic had the right of way. Also, he states the manual he read and posted is the current MN manual not the OR manual. Also, I didn’t see anyone say someone was lying, just that they didn’t understand the rules of their state and that it happens often based on word of mouth and rumors. I do think several posts here could have been written differently with a little more respect, but the problem with written language is it’s not always taken as intended and people can be easily offended when that was not the intent of the author

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

Well my understanding from reading their posts is she was saying MN removed the yield signs on the ramps and now the vehicles traveling on the highway must yield to merging traffic. No body said their were signs stating that merging traffic had the right of way. Also, he states the manual he read and posted is the current MN manual not the OR manual. Also, I didn’t see anyone say someone was lying, just that they didn’t understand the rules of their state and that it happens often based on word of mouth and rumors. I do think several posts here could have been written differently with a little more respect, but the problem with written language is it’s not always taken as intended and people can be easily offended when that was not the intent of the author

Ah yes, the written word. Really good wordsmiths can spend hours developing a single sentence. The master of the craft can evoke tone of voice and infrences in their writing. My favorite example of the "mis-understanding" of the written word was during Hoover's reign over the FBI. Reportedly a station chief sent a memo to Hoover about a suspects reported whereabouts.

Hoover sent the memo back to him with Watch the borders" hand written on the memo. He immediately dispatched agents in great numbers north and south to monitor the borders.. some time later a follow up memo that no activity was found at the Canadian or Mexican borders.. it was after sending the follow up memo he discovered that Hoover was a stickler about the page borders on the typed correspondence. . Hoover was refrencing the page borders and not the international borders..

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

Well my understanding from reading their posts is she was saying MN removed the yield signs on the ramps and now the vehicles traveling on the highway must yield to merging traffic. No body said their were signs stating that merging traffic had the right of way. Also, he states the manual he read and posted is the current MN manual not the OR manual. Also, I didn’t see anyone say someone was lying, just that they didn’t understand the rules of their state and that it happens often based on word of mouth and rumors. I do think several posts here could have been written differently with a little more respect, but the problem with written language is it’s not always taken as intended and people can be easily offended when that was not the intent of the author

My comments were directed for another member. If you would like to drive to MN and give us a first hand assessment by all means do so. Until then my conversation was with a different member. And by the way, when someone says everything you say is false what exactly do you call that if not calling you a liar?

Yes, the picture was of a MN manual. TX has about the same as I'm sure most other states as that is how on ramps generally work. However, no matter what the manual says it does not mean all ramps at every location in every state work that way because they don't. Why the yield signs were removed and what the protocol is at that location in MN is unknown to me, you and member peanut. The ONLY person that knows what is happening is the person that lives there. Any other claims and assertions are purely speculative and are in reality meaningless.

[bsmith0404]

Originally Posted by sourdough

My comments were directed for another member. If you would like to drive to MN and give us a first hand assessment by all means do so. Until then my conversation was with a different member. And by the way, when someone says everything you say is false what exactly do you call that if not calling you a liar?

Yes, the picture was of a MN manual. TX has about the same as I'm sure most other states as that is how on ramps generally work. However, no matter what the manual says it does not mean all ramps at every location in every state work that way because they don't. Why the yield signs were removed and what the protocol is at that location in MN is unknown to me, you and member peanut. The ONLY person that knows what is happening is the person that lives there. Any other claims and assertions are purely speculative and are in reality meaningless.

Considering I lived 90 miles from the Twin Cities, I have been there and driven in MN many, many times in my life. I have family members (including my son) who still live in MN and family member who live in WI close enough to MN that they can throw a rock and hit it. I’d say I have a pretty good understanding of driving in MN. I can also say this is the first time I have ever heard that the vehicle merging onto a highway has the right away. The yield signs were removed many years ago. My understanding that change was done as part of money saving initiative and the idea that they were not necessary since it is common knowledge and part of the driving test that you must yield when merging.

Saying that someone’s information is false, is not calling them a liar, it’s saying they’re information is not correct. When you answer a question incorrectly, you are not lying, you’re just presenting inaccurate information. Probably could have been worded differently to seem less offensive You’re only a liar if you present false information intentionally, knowing it is false.

As for your comments being directed to another member, they’re posted on a public forum not in a private conversation. I simply presented information stating that I can see why he posted what he did and that I tend to agree with his comments. I have just as much right to tell you that, as you do to make the comments you made to him. After all HIS comments were directed to a different member NOT to you.

[Berdan]

Ok I'll pile on. My pet peeve is that when the right lane is going slow, I will move to the middle lane and keep up with traffic, keeping a conservative stopping distance between me and the vehicle in front of me. Someone decides they don't want to be behind a TT so they speed up, pass in the left lane, cut over into the middle lane and slam on their brakes once they realize that they are not going anywhere fast. Of course they just consumed a good portion of my stopping distance and have to slow.

[Laredo Tugger]

You guys are all having problems with people merging? How about the dorks where I live that think because the "Yeild" sign is red and white, it means stop. Yeah stop. That's what they do on the on ramp. Then they wait for an open spot to proceed.
I thought I was being smart when I put a "Beware of Dog" sign on my gate. I do not have a dog. A local police officer saw it and commented that I was "assuming they can read". Huh?? I said your kidding, he said it might be a problem.
I have learned to spot these poor drivers and just make preparations to use the right shoulder for a scathing one finger wave pass.
RMc

[bsmith0404]

Originally Posted by Laredo Tugger

You guys are all having problems with people merging? How about the dorks where I live that think because the "Yeild" sign is red and white, it means stop. Yeah stop. That's what they do on the on ramp. Then they wait for an open spot to proceed.
I thought I was being smart when I put a "Beware of Dog" sign on my gate. I do not have a dog. A local police officer saw it and commented that I was "assuming they can read". Huh?? I said your kidding, he said it might be a problem.
I have learned to spot these poor drivers and just make preparations to use the right shoulder for a scathing one finger wave pass.
RMc

Have seen the stop at a yield sign many times. The bad part about it, if they’re in front of you coming down an on ramp, part of your attention is dedicated to finding a spot in traffic to merge into and adjusting your speed to match it then all of the sudden the idiot in front of you in a little cars stops….that’ll make your heart skip a beat.