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Old 11-23-2021, 06:20 PM   #1
bm1ll
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Check my math

So...first time poster on here. I've been reading forum posts for quite a while and I have to admit that I'm a little confused. Seems like a lot of opinions but not a whole lot of straight answers. So, let me just ask my question.



I have a 2021 Ram 2500 with 4.10 gears and the 6.4l gasser. Payload rating of 3049 (according to the sticker in the door). I was originally going to purchase my first travel trailer but have been convinced my family to look at a fifth wheel.



The wife and I have settled on a Cougar 24RDS but now I'm starting to worry that I don't have enough truck for it. Can someone take a look at my numbers and let me know what they think?



24RDS

Unloaded Weight: 7,310lbs

GVWR: 10,000lbs

GAWR (each axle): 4400lbs



2500:

Max Payload: 3029lbs

5th wheel hitch: 300lbs

Passengers: 450lbs



Based on these numbers:

Pin weight: 1462 - 2000lbs (let's assume 2000lbs)



3029lbs (gross payload) - 2000lb (pin weight) - 450lb (passengers) - 300lbs (hitch) = 279lbs (breathing room)



If I'm doing the math right, I'm thinking that at max load in the trailer, I'm at 90% of my towing capacity. That has me nervous. What do you think? I would think that I would rarely be at max capacity but this is my first trailer so I'm just guessing, Should I go back to looking at TTs? No, a new truck is not in the cards.



Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 11-23-2021, 06:46 PM   #2
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You are going about the math the right way. When you don't have the trailer to weigh, all you can do is guesstimate like this. One tweak to make would be to estimate 22% of the 10K GVWR as pin weight....this would make it actually 2200 lbs.

Although you don't have the trailer yet, you do have the truck. Since that sticker payload was only valid when the truck rolled off the assembly line I suggest loading up completely for camping....all gear, all passengers, and pets, top off the fuel tank and hit up a CAT scale. Subtract this loaded-for-camping CAT scale weight from your truck's listed GVWR....also on the door panel sticker. This remainder will be what you actually have left to support the weight of the pin and the hitch.
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Old 11-23-2021, 07:58 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by bm1ll View Post
I have a 2021 Ram 2500 with 4.10 gears and the 6.4l gasser. Payload rating of 3049 (according to the sticker in the door). I was originally going to purchase my first travel trailer but have been convinced my family to look at a fifth wheel.
As stated you already have the truck and a big advantage to my Ram diesel. My payload is only 2097#, damn Cummins are heavy. When I weighed my rig last month at a CAT scale headed to a campground, I was about 200# over payload. However, I do have a 2022 GMC 3500 SRW with Duramac and the Allison 10 speed on order.

Good luck with your decision and purchase.
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Old 11-24-2021, 09:58 AM   #4
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Any tow vehicle loaded at or close to max payload will make the suspension "soft", and more reactive to wind when on the road. The travel trailer, depending on length, ect., will also react to wind with sway more than the fifth wheel. A good hitch with sway control, will reduce the sway greatly. The travel trailer also has a lower profile than the fifth wheel, making it easier to tow, (better gas mileage). With the gas engine, you will be in the slow lane on the big hills, especially at altitude. That truck will handle that fifth wheel ok, just take your time and be safe!
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Old 11-24-2021, 03:13 PM   #5
bm1ll
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I just loaded up the truck and took it to the CAT scales. Tare weight was 7720#. So, once I add a hitch, I think Iíll struggle to stay under GVWR (10k).

7720# + 300# (hitch) + 22% of 9000 trailer weight = 10K

Thoughts?
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Old 11-24-2021, 03:28 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by bm1ll View Post
I just loaded up the truck and took it to the CAT scales. Tare weight was 7720#. So, once I add a hitch, I think Iíll struggle to stay under GVWR (10k).

7720# + 300# (hitch) + 22% of 9000 trailer weight = 10K

Thoughts?
What is in the truck that could be carried in the basement of the 5er?
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Old 11-24-2021, 03:45 PM   #7
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Check my math

Iím not sure my wife will want to get in the basement. lol. I could probably move 50# or so into the basement but thatís about it. I assumed I would have most in the basement and has me/wife/dog +50-75# of gear.

Iím starting to think that a TT is a better fit unfortunately.
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Old 11-24-2021, 03:56 PM   #8
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Iím not sure my wife will want to get in the basement. lol. I could probably move 50# or so into the basement but thatís about it. I assumed I would have most in the basement and has me/wife/dog +50-75# of gear.

Iím starting to think that a TT is a better fit unfortunately.
Please go up to the UserCP and make a signature with year, make and model of camper and truck. Keep this simple. 23 percent of gross weight is accepted estimate of pin weight. 2300 lbs. With passengers and hitch another 750 lbs. You are at 3050 lbs payload on your truck. A couple of salads and you will be OK with the 3029 payload capability OR get an Andersen Ultimate hitch (35 lbs) and go for seconds at the buffet.
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Old 11-24-2021, 04:06 PM   #9
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Thanks WiredGeorge. Iíll update my profile but I donít yet have a 5er or TT. Iím just doing my homework before I purchase.
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Old 11-24-2021, 04:20 PM   #10
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Thanks WiredGeorge. Iíll update my profile but I donít yet have a 5er or TT. Iím just doing my homework before I purchase.
If you are showing common sense, how did they let you in here? Your pickup is more suited for a bumper pull and you have likely discovered the fantasy of the "1/2 Ton Towable" marketing scam. Good luck!
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Old 11-24-2021, 05:57 PM   #11
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24RDS

Unloaded Weight: 7,310lbs

GVWR: 10,000lbs

GAWR (each axle): 4400lbs



2500:

Max Payload: 3029lbs

5th wheel hitch: 300lbs

Passengers: 450lbs



Based on these numbers:

Pin weight: 1462 - 2000lbs (let's assume 2000lbs)



3029lbs (gross payload) - 2000lb (pin weight) - 450lb (passengers) - 300lbs (hitch) = 279lbs (breathing room)


do your self a favor and fill up the gas tanktake the wife and go to a scale and get your actual axel weights. this will tell you exctly what you have available, the sticker valuse doesnt take into account options and such and are notoriously off.

Steve
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Old 11-24-2021, 06:17 PM   #12
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do your self a favor and fill up the gas tanktake the wife and go to a scale and get your actual axel weights. this will tell you exctly what you have available, the sticker valuse doesnt take into account options and such and are notoriously off.

Steve

Yes, and make sure when you roll onto the scales with the wife in the truck do NOT say "oh boy looks like we need to lose some weight"

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Old 11-24-2021, 06:30 PM   #13
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Check my math

@Steve - thatís what I did. I gassed up, put the wife and another passenger (to simulate my dog) in the truck and got on the scale. 7700# - that just leaves me 2300#. Looks like Iíll be looking at the 25RDS instead of the 24RDS.
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Old 11-24-2021, 10:21 PM   #14
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@Steve - thatís what I did. I gassed up, put the wife and another passenger (to simulate my dog) in the dog and got on the scale. 7700# - that just leaves me 2300#. Looks like Iíll be looking at the 25RDS instead of the 24RDS.
Really would like you to get safely into a 5er, due to better towing characteristics.

You estimated 450# for passengers, yet you have lost 729# from your sticker payload. What have you added to the TV since new that took the other 279#?

If SHort bed truck, have you considered a Andersen Ultimate hitch at 65#? You could also consider a Reese Goose Box pin box, then just a ball hitch in the bed 5# hitch weight.
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Old 11-25-2021, 04:18 AM   #15
bm1ll
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I was trying to think of the same thing. What Iíve added since new (2 months ago) is a tonneau cover, running boards, and whatever misc stuff I put in the truck. The passengers (and me) in the truck last night weighed around 525#. That means that all of that weighs in at $200#.

I would really like to get into the 24RDS (versus 25RDS) but not sure how to do it. Regarding the Anderson, I thought that Keystone put out a memo that the use of an Anderson hitch violates the frame warranty. Iíll have to read up on the Goose Box.
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Old 11-25-2021, 04:48 AM   #16
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@rhagfo - looking at a combo of a Reese Goose Box and a Curt goose ball hitch (#60633), Iím coming in just at my GVWR.

Curt states that the hitch is 53#. So, with 22% of the max weight of the trailer + what the truck weighed last night (7700) + the hitch, Iíd be right at 9950#.

What do you all think? Too close for comfort and bad idea or workable solution?
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Old 11-25-2021, 05:03 AM   #17
bm1ll
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@Essvar. Weíll, I didnít say that but, after getting the readout from the scale, I then said to my wife and 21yr old daughter ďHey, how much do you guys weigh?Ē. For some reason they didnít want to tell me.
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Old 11-25-2021, 05:24 AM   #18
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@rhagfo - looking at a combo of a Reese Goose Box and a Curt goose ball hitch (#60633), Iím coming in just at my GVWR.

Curt states that the hitch is 53#. So, with 22% of the max weight of the trailer + what the truck weighed last night (7700) + the hitch, Iíd be right at 9950#.

What do you all think? Too close for comfort and bad idea or workable solution?
The goose box replaces the existing pin box so the net weight gain is near zero. I am assuming you have 5th wheel prep in the TV.

That 5er also has a 2,600# payload, at half that you are at 1,300# that is a reasonable load for weekending, which will also help.

You will just need to be vigilant about watching your weights.
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Old 11-25-2021, 06:01 AM   #19
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To me being right at the edge isn't prudent. If some salesperson told you "this truck is capable of doing the speed limit IF you floor the accelerator and wait 5 mins." Would you buy it? Technically it can do it but I don’t think you should. A truck is a yool and you should use yhe right tool gor the job. You are finding yourself in the position that many if not most have been in.

You have a truck and your desperatly trying to make the truck you have work. That's not a good approach and likely will lead to less than desirable results. There's always a few folks that will tell you that you'll be fine. I'm not that cavalier with other people's safety. IMHO if you have to use a kitchen scale to measure your loading to stay within weight limits then it's time step back and take a time out. Look at what's really important. Look at your wants vs needs, and try to look at it from a realistic vs "dreamy" approach.
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Old 11-25-2021, 06:01 AM   #20
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@Steve - thatís what I did. I gassed up, put the wife and another passenger (to simulate my dog) in the dog and got on the scale. 7700# - that just leaves me 2300#. Looks like Iíll be looking at the 25RDS instead of the 24RDS.
ok so dont worry about the total weight or the "payload" rating, they are nothing. what matters is the individul axel weights and raitings. what did you rear axel actualy weight and what does the door say is the max for REAR GVW. that will give you your true payload you have left over.
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