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Old 11-17-2021, 06:13 PM   #1
Mike&Sandy
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Ranier G rated tires.

I'm picking up a 2022 Montana HC 295rl in 3 weeks. It's coming with Ranier G rated tires. Apparently, the G rated ones are new for 2022. Anybody want to chime in on if I should change them out?
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Old 11-17-2021, 06:47 PM   #2
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My 2020 331RL HC came with Ranier LRF tires (95psi). IMO they were inferior based on the reviews I had read and the fact that LRF tires, again IMO, had no place on a 14k gvw RV. I replaced mine with LRG Sailun 637s before it left the lot. That said....

If they are now putting LRG tires on that trailer that is a GOOD thing. Rainiers?Now that they have upsized the load range that makes it a bit more difficult IMO. For me they would go because I don't like the brand. On the other hand some would consider that wasted money. With a proper load range it might be OK to just leave them and watch them very closely....they will fail from the inside.
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Old 11-17-2021, 09:50 PM   #3
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Maybe that is a statement as to lack of confidence of the tires weight rating! G rated tires on a 14,000# GVWR 5er, likely about 11,000# on the axles G rated ST’s must be close to 4,000# rated.
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Old 11-18-2021, 01:36 AM   #4
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For me the tires would have to go.... The Fifth wheel dry weight from factory is 11,235lbs and by the time you add batteries, propane and the stuff you are gonna carry you will be close to 14K lbs of weight

The specs on the Hercules wheel are 3750 lbs
https://www.tredittire.com/wheel/hercules/

The tire is 14 ply G rated .. specs from website..
https://www.tredittire.com/tire/rainier-st/

The Montana line comes with the Sailun S637 series... Its an excellent tire although there have been several cases lately with the ST235/80x16 series with a manufacturer code being built in Vietnam separating..

Its a toss up decision IMO... For me I would have the Sailun S637 series or the Hercules 901 series tire...

The wheels would also have all metal valve stems if not already installed from the factory... If they actually are installing the G rated Rainer Tire then the wheel should have all metal valve stems

The Trekwood Website shows that wheel for the 2022 Montana HC coming with the F rated series Rainer...not the G rated...

Trekwood specs for a 2022 Montana HC tire and wheel differ from what the Keystone HC website show as installed Tires...

https://www.trekwood.com/products/15...Black-Hercules
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Old 11-18-2021, 03:14 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
For me the tires would have to go.... The Fifth wheel dry weight from factory is 11,235lbs and by the time you add batteries, propane and the stuff you are gonna carry you will be close to 14K lbs of weight

The specs on the Hercules wheel are 3750 lbs
https://www.tredittire.com/wheel/hercules/

The tire is 14 ply G rated .. specs from website..
https://www.tredittire.com/tire/rainier-st/

The Montana line comes with the Sailun S637 series... Its an excellent tire although there have been several cases lately with the ST235/80x16 series with a manufacturer code being built in Vietnam separating..

Its a toss up decision IMO... For me I would have the Sailun S637 series or the Hercules 901 series tire...

The wheels would also have all metal valve stems if not already installed from the factory... If they actually are installing the G rated Rainer Tire then the wheel should have all metal valve stems

The Trekwood Website shows that wheel for the 2022 Montana HC coming with the F rated series Rainer...not the G rated...

Trekwood specs for a 2022 Montana HC tire and wheel differ from what the Keystone HC website show as installed Tires...

https://www.trekwood.com/products/15...Black-Hercules
On our old 5er had the Towmax Power Kings after about a 1000 miles they started popping like balloons this was back in 2014. I did a lot of online reading and decided to go with the Hercules 901's after a year or so on a trip to Eufaula, Al (about 500 round trip) I had two of em separate one going and one on the way home. When I got home I inspected the other two and one of them had started to separate. I ordered Saliun 637"s (the ones from China) and had them installed and pulled the 5er about 5000 miles two years in row and never had any issues. As a matter of fact they still looked like new when we traded it in. As for the ones from Vietnam who knows??? have a buddy that has a Grand Design 5er and he had issues with the factory tires and ordered the S637's when he got em they were the Vietnam ones, he hasn't traveled that much since he got em so I am kinda waiting to see if he has issues with em.
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Old 11-18-2021, 03:18 AM   #6
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My 2018 model came with Rainier G tires. Pulled approx 7000 miles on them with no issues. I noticed sidewall micro cracking (not sure of the correct term) summer 2020. Replaced them with five Salian S637s (China) October 2020.
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Old 11-18-2021, 07:13 AM   #7
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On our old 5er had the Towmax Power Kings after about a 1000 miles they started popping like balloons this was back in 2014. I did a lot of online reading and decided to go with the Hercules 901's after a year or so on a trip to Eufaula, Al (about 500 round trip) I had two of em separate one going and one on the way home. When I got home I inspected the other two and one of them had started to separate. I ordered Saliun 637"s (the ones from China) and had them installed and pulled the 5er about 5000 miles two years in row and never had any issues. As a matter of fact they still looked like new when we traded it in. As for the ones from Vietnam who knows??? have a buddy that has a Grand Design 5er and he had issues with the factory tires and ordered the S637's when he got em they were the Vietnam ones, he hasn't traveled that much since he got em so I am kinda waiting to see if he has issues with em.
Yea my 2014 Alpine.. as did ALL 2014 Alpines came OEM with 10 ply E rated TK tires... they were thrown away at 500 miles.. been running Les Schwab Geo Start 14 ply G rated tires since late 2014...

ANd.. ALL 2015 Alpines came with 14 Ply G rated tires... And YES.. my Sendel OEM wheels stamped 110psi

My next tires will be either Hercules or S637 series and I upsized from the OEM 235/80 to 235/85 series....

The Sailun has a great rack record as well except I am seeing several posts on the Montana RV site with Sailun failures for the 235/80x16 tires made in Vietnam... The ones made in China appear to be great

The Sailun failures are complete tread blow offs.. some with as little as 500 miles on them

In the end its all a crap shoot... If the Geo Stars were still offered by Les Schwab Id go right back with those... over 34K miles and mine are almost 7 years old.. They will be replaced in 2022 just because... Cosmetically they look almost as good as the day they were installed
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Old 11-18-2021, 02:08 PM   #8
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Specs for 2022 Keystone - Montana High Country 295RL (Fifth Wheel).

By using tires (ST225/80R16 LRG) on a trailer designed for 6000# axles, the manufacturer has set the designated size so far above minimum standards for 6000# vehicle certified axles that all other load ranges in that designated size cannot be used.

Vehicle certified 6000# GAWR axles require at the very minimum 3000# (ST235/80R16 LRD) tires. To meet the minimum standard recommendation set by RVIA the minimum tire load capacity (via inflation) is 3300#; which can be met by any using any ST235/80R16 LRE tire.

The math used here is: GVWR 14,300# - 2300# tongue weight = 12,000# / 2 = 6000# axle / 2 = 3000# tires. Those are the specs for the above trailer and the minimum value for tires and axles as they are written in FMVSS 571.120.

The ST235/80R16 LRG has the ability to provide 1080# (ea) of loads capacity reserves at 129 PSI (per Sailun load inflation link).

If Keystone has set the recommended inflation pressure for those tires at sidewall max they are most likely going to act like solid rubber on 6000# axles. According to NHTSA & USTMA regulations and standards the inflation pressure recommendations on the trailer are minimum and correct.

And I move on.
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Old 11-19-2021, 03:07 PM   #9
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By using tires (ST225/80R16 LRG) on a trailer designed for 6000# axles, the manufacturer has set the designated size so far above minimum standards for 6000# vehicle certified axles that all other load ranges in that designated size cannot be used.

CW....I've read this 3 times and dont understand what you're saying. Could you say that differently?
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Old 11-20-2021, 04:45 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gearhead View Post
By using tires (ST225/80R16 LRG) on a trailer designed for 6000# axles, the manufacturer has set the designated size so far above minimum standards for 6000# vehicle certified axles that all other load ranges in that designated size cannot be used.

CW....I've read this 3 times and dont understand what you're saying. Could you say that differently?
"By The Book": The ST235/80R16 is a designated tire size. Within that designation there are four load ranges built; they are D - E - F & G, each having a different maximum load capacities and all conform to the load inflation chart for that designated size.

The vehicle manufacturer is the only authorized fitter for OEM tires and their recommended inflation pressures. NHTSA recognizes the OE tires, at the inflation pressures set by the vehicle manufacturer to be the minimum standard for that fitment and publishes documents that support that fact.

When reading other NHTSA documentations you will find that replacement tires MUST provide a load capacity equal to or greater than the OE tires provide.

When the vehicle manufacturer sets a recommended tire inflation pressure for your trailer's tires and sets them at sidewall max, there is no deviation allowed. Optional inflation pressures start at what has been recommended and tire sidewall max. For tires already set at max, the only deviation is to go up a load range or to a plus sized tire approved by the vehicle manufacturer - see their options list, if they have one.

Remember, the ST235/85R16 is a designated size and considered a plus sized tire when compared to the ST235/80R16.
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Old 11-20-2021, 04:57 AM   #11
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This is what happened to our Ranier tires. We purchased the camper brand new and it was less than 6 months later, and probably less than 2000 miles on these tires when this happened. We were a good couple hundred miles from home. This wasn't fun. I'll NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, EVER tow a trailer again if it has Ranier tires!

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Old 11-20-2021, 07:56 AM   #12
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Our 2018 also came with Rainier F tires. I kept them on during our first Summer of use but we didn't put on very many miles and had no issues. However, after reading about all the failures on this and other forums I changed them to Sailun G tires. I don't know if that was a big improvement or not...but my confidence level is much higher. So far they've performed as they should. Good tires and a good TPMS...what else can you do?
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Old 11-20-2021, 08:35 AM   #13
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"By The Book": The ST235/80R16 is a designated tire size. Within that designation there are four load ranges built; they are D - E - F & G, each having a different maximum load capacities and all conform to the load inflation chart for that designated size.

The vehicle manufacturer is the only authorized fitter for OEM tires and their recommended inflation pressures. NHTSA recognizes the OE tires, at the inflation pressures set by the vehicle manufacturer to be the minimum standard for that fitment and publishes documents that support that fact.

When reading other NHTSA documentations you will find that replacement tires MUST provide a load capacity equal to or greater than the OE tires provide.

When the vehicle manufacturer sets a recommended tire inflation pressure for your trailer's tires and sets them at sidewall max, there is no deviation allowed. Optional inflation pressures start at what has been recommended and tire sidewall max. For tires already set at max, the only deviation is to go up a load range or to a plus sized tire approved by the vehicle manufacturer - see their options list, if they have one.

Remember, the ST235/85R16 is a designated size and considered a plus sized tire when compared to the ST235/80R16.
Thanks for the detailed information and the clarification, I wasn't sure what you were talking about either, lol. So your response addresses what I was asking. It sounds like the manufacturer has moved from F to G. The G tires may be good enough? Should I be changing them to a more reliable brand?
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Old 11-20-2021, 03:52 PM   #14
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So if I drop down a load range to a brand I like that provides a reserve capacity that I'm comfortable with will I have the police NHTSA knocking on my door?
Of course not.
So I'll do what I dang well please.
Nothing personal to you.
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Old 11-20-2021, 04:29 PM   #15
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So if I drop down a load range to a brand I like that provides a reserve capacity that I'm comfortable with will I have the police NHTSA knocking on my door?
Of course not.
So I'll do what I dang well please.
Nothing personal to you.
I'm in the process of "creating a NHTSA nightmare" as we speak... My current axles are 5200 lb, Lippert axles that Keystone derated to 4400 pounds, installed 225 75R15 LRD tires. I upgraded tires to LRE, and am having axle spindle/bearing issues. So, I'm upgrading my axles to 6000 pound Dexters... The tires are rated at 2830 each, 5660 per axle, but the OEM tires were rated at 2540 each, 5080 per axle. Now, either OEM or my upgrade tires are both going to be "significantly under the axle rating... Like AE Neuman, "What, me worry?".... We won't discuss the current 2500 pound springs, the upgraded 3000 pound springs or the implications there.... To me, 12K axles, 12K springs and 11,320 tire ratings will carry a 10K GVWR trailer that Keystone says will never have more than 8800 pounds on the axles.... So....

I'd suspect that if some "investigator from NHTSA" were really snooping around campgrounds or out here in the woods where I live, they'd probably find loads more "out of regulation" trailers sitting out in the open without having to crawl under mine to look at axle tags or even to compare my tire sidewalls with the Keystone decal on the trailer front corner....
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Old 11-20-2021, 05:25 PM   #16
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I'm in the process of "creating a NHTSA nightmare" as we speak... My current axles are 5200 lb, Lippert axles that Keystone derated to 4400 pounds, installed 225 75R15 LRD tires. I upgraded tires to LRE, and am having axle spindle/bearing issues. So, I'm upgrading my axles to 6000 pound Dexters... The tires are rated at 2830 each, 5660 per axle, but the OEM tires were rated at 2540 each, 5080 per axle. Now, either OEM or my upgrade tires are both going to be "significantly under the axle rating... Like AE Neuman, "What, me worry?".... We won't discuss the current 2500 pound springs, the upgraded 3000 pound springs or the implications there.... To me, 12K axles, 12K springs and 11,320 tire ratings will carry a 10K GVWR trailer that Keystone says will never have more than 8800 pounds on the axles.... So....

I'd suspect that if some "investigator from NHTSA" were really snooping around campgrounds or out here in the woods where I live, they'd probably find loads more "out of regulation" trailers sitting out in the open without having to crawl under mine to look at axle tags or even to compare my tire sidewalls with the Keystone decal on the trailer front corner....


IMO all the NHTSA "regs" quoted are simply to make sure those that want to cut corners and "make excuses" know that there are some sort of guidelines.

The things said about you can't this or that when you are trying to upgrade are just rhetoric. Not a single person from NHTSA, LEO or anyone else will ever, ever cite you for upgrading your suspension, tires etc.....won't happen.

I upgraded every component on my suspension because I don't like to cut corners on weight or depend on the OEMs to give me that "safety cushion" - they don't. It's upgraded; it's better; it's safer for me and everyone around me. NHTSA, miles of red tape "writings" that have nothing to do with actual, real, upgrades.....they just don't matter to me.
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Old 11-22-2021, 12:41 AM   #17
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The main reason manufacturers, dealers & retailers will not normally recommend axle upgrades is they invite overloading the vehicle's GVWR.

Axles do not have to be upgraded to support tires with load capacity reserves. Those load capacity reserves cannot cause vehicle overloading or axle overloading. Only weight beyond the designed limits can do that.

Those "Rs" (GAWR/GVWR) can only be legally changed by the vehicle manufacturer of a vehicle certified modifier.

I may be bias about trailer axles because in all my years of hauling trailers around the country I've never had one fail. Those that I've seen replaced suffered some sort of road hazard. We had our Everest with certified 6000# GAWRs for a little more than 14 years and a couple hundred thousand miles and sold it with the OE axles still in place.
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Old 11-22-2021, 07:01 PM   #18
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Our 2019 Premier 24RK came with Rainier tires... Less than 10k miles on them and had a very destructive tread separation on the highway. Tore through the entire underside of the trailer and into the bottom of a slide. While putting the spare on, noticed that the other tire on that side was beginning to delaminate too. I wont tow a trailer anymore if it has them on it. Would change them out right away.
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Old 11-23-2021, 06:14 PM   #19
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Our 2019 Premier 24RK came with Rainier tires... Less than 10k miles on them and had a very destructive tread separation on the highway. Tore through the entire underside of the trailer and into the bottom of a slide. While putting the spare on, noticed that the other tire on that side was beginning to delaminate too. I wont tow a trailer anymore if it has them on it. Would change them out right away.
I hear you, I changed out the stock tires on my Cougar immediately. However, this Montana is coming with Rainier G rated tires. I can find very little to no information online about these tires. Some seem to suggest that they are Sailun's. See link.

https://www.easternmarine.com/sailun...im-8-lug-l-r-g
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Old 11-25-2021, 08:52 AM   #20
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Picked up a 2022 Montana 3855 last week. Arrived with Sailun S637 made in China dated 24/21. Looks like they may be using factories in China and Nam.
When time to replace Ill be looking for those Not made in Nam. I left a lot of blood in that ****hole.
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