Whole home generators

[W5WI]

Originally Posted by cavie

that is the kind of set up that gets people killed!!!!!

Interesting comment!

I've used a very similar set up in GA for seven weeks after Hurricane Kate blocked our road. I've used a similar set up in MO for five weeks after the ice storm in 2007. And, I just did it again here in Texas for four days.

The key is knowing what you are doing. The set up is safe if you do it correctly. To say otherwise means you may not know what you are talking about!

I too am a licensed electrician but I'm not trolling for jobs!

[Ibdagriz]

Originally Posted by blubuckaroo

I think for a home, a good investment is one of the new multi-fuel generators that run on Gasoline, LP, and natural gas. You'll need to de-rate the generator for use on LP and natural gas, but you'll avoid a lot of maintenance and refueling if you can go this route.

I have lived in SW Houston for 22 years in my house and have lost power for a total of 43 hours in all that time. Hurricane Ike had us out for 23 hours and the freeze added in the additional 20 hours. Neighbors across the street are on a different circuit and were down for 7 days during Ike.

I have an 8500 peak/5500 running and a 4000 peak/3500 running generators and ran just the larger one during the freeze. Ran two 1500 watt space heaters in the living room with the wood burning fireplace and both refrigerators in the kitchen along with two living room lights and the TV over the air. Internet/Uverse was down due to Time Warner installer cutting my line on Sunday before the freeze. LOL..

Hard to justify upgrading my setup to anything permanent.

Griz

[Dallasrules]

[QUOTE=You'll need to de-rate the generator for use on LP and natural gas, but you'll avoid a lot of maintenance and refueling if you can go this route.

What do you mean by de-rate?

[JRTJH]

[QUOTE=Dallasrules;436029][QUOTE=You'll need to de-rate the generator for use on LP and natural gas, but you'll avoid a lot of maintenance and refueling if you can go this route.

What do you mean by de-rate?[/QUOTE]

Look at the specifications sheet on any "dual fuel generator". It will have two different output wattage specifications. One for gas and the other for LPG. The reason is that the generator engine power is developed by the fuel being used, Gasoline has more "energy" to burn than LPG. That results in greater horsepower which means more power to turn the alternator/generator section of the system.

It's the same with LPG/natural gas generators. Natural gas has less energy, so those "dual fuel" generators will produce greater wattage output on LPG.

I haven't seen a "tri-fuel generator" but I'd suspect it would have three wattage outputs, from highest to lowest: Gas, LPG, natural gas.

This is one example of what's above: https://www.championpowerequipment.c...fuel-inverter/

Click on "specifications" and take a look at "gas starting watts/gas running watts" and "LPG starting watts/LPG running watts" You'll see the clear "derated power output when using LPG to power the generator. This is typical of all the portable or even "home standby" generators that I've seen.

[Adkchip]

What i have is a battery started 8,000 watt genny.
I use ourselves as transfer switch using main breaker for lineman safety.
I keep 10 gallons of gas onsite for all gas equipment. I will NOT put gas in a fuel can without putting marine grade (blue) stabil in the can first.
I have not had any issues with any of my machines since adopting this policy.
My two cycle equipment gets pro mix two cycle oil. This is mixed with aforementioned treated gas.

YMMV, But i doubt it!

[mpellet723]

We installed a L.P. stand by Generac and Auto Transfir Switch. The best money I ever spent, except the TT and Tow Rig.

[Ken / Claudia]

Reading this was interesting, I never have had a whole house generator. I have had generators for decades and run them outside using a few power cords. I used a wood stove for heat.
The longest without power was 7 or 9 days in 1996.
I always thought that a wired up home system was a whole home power system. I still live in a city.
So, I checked a little and found that my 2 2000s connected together MIGHT run all my needs if hooked up to a home transfer switch. I have a natural gas furnace, tankless water heater and oven. No wood stove at this house.
If I use hook up switches for heat, hot water, refer and maybe a freezer. I can do without the rest and get by. I do have flash lights.
As I said MIGHT, I am still checking the amps needed and would have a electrician do the work. Otherwise back to plan B, live in the RV parked next to the house and run the generators to power it. Use unheated water in the house for toilet.

[xrated]

As a Journeyman Electrician since 1980, I would NEVER, EVER recommend your method of doing what you posted. It is extremely dangerous, against any Electrical code known to man, and an easy way to injure or kill someone. Quite honestly, this post above should be removed for safety's sake so that NO ONE does something like this and thinks that it is OK to do.

Just for clarification purposes, there was a post that was directly above this post and it has been removed. Thank you to whomever removed it, as it would have been a very dangerous way to connect a generator to you house.

[jim1]

As a Journeyman Power Lineman since 1980 I very very much have to agree with Xrated. When we found clowns using these widow makers they where cut up and left on site. There are proper ways to use a gen set to power your house but this isn't it. Not worth somebody's life. Sorry, stay safe and look out for each other.

[notanlines]

Even as a non-electrician (I assure you) I also believe blubuckaroo’s post should be taken down. This is a sure-fire recipe for disaster and has no purpose being online.

[jim1]

Originally Posted by notanlines

Even as a non-electrician (I assure you) I also believe blubuckaroo’s post should be taken down. This is a sure-fire recipe for disaster and has no purpose being online.

AGREE x lots

[Ibdagriz]

Originally Posted by jim1

As a Journeyman Power Lineman since 1980 I very very much have to agree with Xrated. When we found clowns using these widow makers they where cut up and left on site. There are proper ways to use a gen set to power your house but this isn't it. Not worth somebody's life. Sorry, stay safe and look out for each other.

I was picking up a 30A twist lock plug at Lowes during the outage here in Houston and had a guy looking for a pre-manufactured setup like the above.

I told him they were not only against any code in any state, but that they were called "Widow makers". I did tell him it was only 120 volts, so it should only give him a tickle when he was screwing around with it.

Griz

[jim1]

NICE and thank you, people need to careful when they think they can just McGiver sh#% together. Not cool. The reason we have so many laws and rules is because it all started with -there once was a man -

[blubuckaroo]

I've removed my post to Ken / Claudia about back feeding their panel with a portable genset.
I guess my career as a hydroelectric electrician affects my reasoning. The need for temporary power is a common occurrence, and we were expected to deal with it as part of the job. I can see my recommendation to average homeowners was out of line and could be considered unsafe.
Please accept my apology for promoting something that could potentially be unsafe.

[gearhead]

120 volts aka: "the deadly shipmate"

[Ken / Claudia]

Are you talking about me, having a electrician coming to my home and doing the job if it is unsafe and illegal.
I do not have all the answers that's why I said I would be hiring a electrician.
It's my understanding if a sub panel was installed and the main power disconnected, the gennys plugged into a outlet only allowing power into a few items was safe on the outside of the home.
Or was it without pole power, I unplugged the refer and plugged it into a genny outside using a cord for that purpose?

[xrated]

Originally Posted by Ken / Claudia

Are you talking about me, having a electrician coming to my home and doing the job if it is unsafe and illegal.
I do not have all the answers that's why I said I would be hiring a electrician.
It's my understanding if a sub panel was installed and the main power disconnected, the gennys plugged into a outlet only allowing power into a few items was safe on the outside of the home.
Or was it without pole power, I unplugged the refer and plugged it into a genny outside using a cord for that purpose?

Ken, if you are asking about my post above referring to you, the answer is no. I was referring to blubuckaroo's post about using a homemade "adapter" that had male plugs on both ends of a cord.

Using a generator to power your house during an emergency is done by many, many folks, but there are very specific ways to do it safely...AND still abide by the NEC rules and regulations. Many people choose to have a transfer switch installed (manual or automatic) and that is certainly a safe and effective way to do it and be within the scope of the NEC, if installed properly by code. Another method, which is also approved by the NEC is to use a breaker panel Interlock device on the panel. In this scenario, the Interlock provides a safety method that makes your turn off the electrical panel's Main Breaker BEFORE the breaker for the generator input can be turned on. It also makes you turn that generator breaker back off BEFORE you can turn the electrical panel Main Breaker back on. If you lose power to you house and you don't have either one of those methods, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using an extension cord that runs from the generator and goes to say an electric heater...or your refrigerator, or any other device that can be plugged into a regular extension cord. But it is NEVER OK to make up a cord that plugs into the extension cord and then plugs into a receptacle at the house (this cord is what I was talking about that would have a male plug on BOTH ends of it) I hope that clears things up a bit.

[notanlines]

I believe blubuckaroo deserves a solid for his post. Good attitudes are hard to find sometimes.

[CedarCreekWoody]

John is right on with his comments regarding fuel supplies. Having lived throughout several hurricanes, including Katrina, and last week's big freeze here in Texas it is always fuel supply that is an issue. Gasoline and propane were thoroughly covered and resupply is always an issue. Natural gas can work well but we found during Katrina that trees blowing over can uproot gas and water lines, requiring both systems to be shut down (even if the issue isn't on your property.)

I've found that a small generator actually supplies enough power to cover most needs (needs, not wants) EXCEPT if you are depending on it to run electrical heaters.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by notanlines

I believe blubuckaroo deserves a solid for his post. Good attitudes are hard to find sometimes.

I second the motion