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Old 09-10-2019, 07:08 AM   #41
FlyingAroundRV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blubuckaroo View Post
Sambucus...
You say you started out looking at little Scotty & Shasta type trailers, often referred to as "Canned Hams." We have one of those we pull with our old Bronco for hunting, fishing, and campouts.
I've read, on this thread, that bigger is better. That's just not so! Bigger can be more restrictive. We kept our little 15' camp trailer because we found that our new 26' travel trailer was too big to get into many state and national park camp spots. You need to keep that in mind, especially if you plan to have grandchildren along.
Beauty as with trailer size is in the eye of the beholder. At our last CG we were next to a couple who had a canned ham trailer. They loved it, it was perfect for their needs. Next to our 30'TT it looked like a shoe box to me. The thing was so small, I couldn't imagine how you would sleep in it, in any position other than the foetal position, but there you go.
I like to be able to change my mind inside the trailer.
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Old 09-10-2019, 08:29 AM   #42
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More on the tongue weight.

Brochure for my trailer lists a dry weight of 6762 and a tongue weight of 630.

Actual weight the last time I had it on a scale was a loaded of 8,200 (right at GVW) and a tongue weight of 1040 (12.6%). So I went from under 10% brochure setup to a reasonable number.

I'd base the tongue on 12.5% of gross.
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Old 09-10-2019, 10:56 AM   #43
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Fordfellla,
Those mechanics giving you advice are partly right. Ford does not want lawsuits so they post limits. So, if you go over them who is responsible if the vehicle is damaged, Ford, the mechanics or you. I think we all say you. What if your involved in any crash, your fault or not. Police conduct an investigation (something I have done hundreds of times, likely more) What if the cause or contributing factor is the vehicle being overloaded or improperly loaded. Again will Ford say they will stand behind you when you choose to ignore the posted vehicles limits. Best yet, this suggestion has never been followed, but I will ask it again. Talk to your insurance agent. Tell him you might be overloading the truck when towing a RV. Ask how much overloading do they find is OK.
I agree with the mechanics there is a safety factor built into every posted limit maybe on everything we have. Police,inspectors, insurance investigators go with what the vehicle posted not by mechanics opinions.
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Old 09-10-2019, 11:25 AM   #44
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Fore nor any of the vehicle makers if truly concerned for your safety should not post a max tow weight as most will exceed the payload long before reaching the max tow. They should however post in bold type the max payload somewhere obvious on each truck with what that includes.
RV makers should not post dry weights or pin/tongue weights.
Both tow weight & dry RV weights are completely useless in determining what's needed or necessary.
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Old 09-10-2019, 12:37 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by travelin texans View Post
Both tow weight & dry RV weights are completely useless in determining what's needed or necessary.
I disagree.
The GVWR of a trailer is the combined weight of the trailer and load.
All our loads are different, and different every day.
However, only the dry weight is constant.
The only way you can compare apples to apples is to use the dry weight.
Yes, you have to be prudent and add up the weight of your load.
Yes, you have to know the weight of a gallon of water, propane, passengers, and all their stuff. You add that to the dry weight and that's what you're towing.
You should never assume, that just because your vehicle is rated to tow the GVWR of the trailer, that the trailer is actually within that rating.
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Old 09-10-2019, 01:22 PM   #46
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The dry weight posted on a tag inside every RV tells you only 1 thing 1 time, that's what it weighed when it rolled off the assembly line with no propane, only the bottles, no battery & never an ounce of liquid of any kind on board, it will NEVER weigh that EVER again. It will be of absolutely no help for the buyer in determining a suitable tv. The buyer should only be using the gross weight to determine percentages for tongue/pin weights. Better to figure too high than too low!
As max truck tow weights, a flat bed trailer loaded to 10k pounds of cement blocks with the load not stacked above the truck bed is totally different than towing a 10k rv with the aerodynamics of a gigantic one of the cement blocks. If they want really want to give helpful info show hauling the blocks then a RV of the same weight both in a 30 mph crosswind & see if there's a difference.
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Old 09-10-2019, 04:37 PM   #47
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Great information Sourdough.
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Old 09-10-2019, 05:24 PM   #48
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"I spoke to the mechanics at my local ford dealer about this, and they said the truck should have no problem and that ford is very conservative with its posted numbers because they don't want a lawsuit. The mechanics actually said my truck should tow 9000 lbs no problem. I tend to have faith in these guys because I have been using this dealership for all my truck needs and these are the mechanics that have been there for years and haven't fed me BS before."


FordFella, I'm sorry but I forgot to address this portion of your post.

I've been in lots of shops, known lots of mechanics, and, those that I know/knew and trust(ed) knew lots of things I needed them to know about engine/drivetrain/tranny etc.

I suspect that those "experts" when questioned about their experience of "towing"; what trailer, what size, how heavy, towed with what, weights etc. - that will leave about 90% of them out of the equation. Opinions from a "trusted" mechanic if truck A can pull 9000 lbs.? They go by Ford's publications stating max tow weight...they know nothing else. So, IMO, like the stated "max tow rating" - forget that conversation and focus on real life.
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Old 09-10-2019, 06:11 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by blubuckaroo View Post
That one time info you're talking about is very important information. The GVW alleviates you of no responsibility. You must still keep the trailer under that GVWR. So how can you know you're legal?
The only way is to add to the dry weight, or have your trailer weighed every day.
The dry weight is your base line.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say; Danny is correct. The dry weight is the "constant"? Very important information? How so?

The dry weight posted is of the trailer as it rolled off the assembly line. It came to the dealer, had propane tanks filled, batteries installed, 2nd AC?, upgraded furniture/appliances/hardware etc. etc.? Now, where did that "very important" dry weight go? Into oblivion - never to mean anything again.

GVW alleviates you of responsibility? Trailer GVW and GVWR are the same thing, just leaves off the "rating" word. How do you know you're legal? A scale...period.

All loads are different every day? Yes they are if you do a lot of variable things. Mine doesn't change more than 100lbs., usually much less - we stay loaded except for food - and that is usually pretty much the same (we're boring). And again, the dry weight is not "constant", it doesn't exist any longer.

You need to know the "load". Do you throw all your stuff on a big scale somewhere every time you load so you know the exact weight of the items you are loading? No. Can you accurately assess the weight of that pile of items by looking at them? No. So then, how do you know if you are at GVW (GVWR), above or below?.....a scale.

Just pointing out that your explanation/response doesn't seem to fly IMO.
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Old 09-10-2019, 07:37 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by blubuckaroo View Post
So, you're saying you just figure your GVWR is going to cover you?
I could never trust that. I have to know what the weight actually is.
Head to the scales, that's the only sure way you will know. Not to exceed the GVWR, GVW, gross weight, however you want to call it, posted on the tag on the drivers side tag with the vin#. With that scaled weight if you want subtract that dry weight posted in a cabinet somewhere from your weight ticket to have a weight of what you & the dealer have added to the RV.
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Old 09-10-2019, 08:04 PM   #51
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[QUOTE=blubuckaroo;358289]So, you're saying you just figure your GVWR is going to cover you?
I could never trust that. I have to know what the weight actually is.[/QUOTE

I'm not sure if you just don't understand how weights work, scales or posted weights on various "things".

I'm not sure why you keep stating that someone will "figure" that the "gvwr" is going to cover them....from what? The gvw/gvwr is there to give you a guide to what you can or cannot have in the TV or RV. How do you know that? A scale. You state in this comment that you "have to know what the weight actually is" but, on your previous post you indicated you didn't want to go to a scale to find out what you actually weighed.

Back to your premise that the unloaded weight is the only constant....that is purely....wrong.
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Old 09-11-2019, 02:55 AM   #52
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A lot of good information and perspectives here...


So, it seems the majority feels that since these trailers are so tall and don't tow like a "normal" load, one should tow well under max capabilities.


There's another trailer I was looking at; it is a very similar layout, much lighter weight, just with a few less amenities (nothing that I think is crucial).


Dry weight: 3300 lbs
Dry hitch weight: 465 lbs

GVWR: 4865 lbs
Length: 22'6"


From what I gather from this forum, I would think this should be a relatively safe set up...
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Old 09-11-2019, 03:06 AM   #53
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At the end of the day, we've all made mistakes or errors in judgement. Lots of folks learn from them, seek the info necessary and move on. Some folks however don't, they make Youtube videos, fail army videos, police and news reports.
C'est la vie
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Old 09-11-2019, 07:04 AM   #54
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Ford F150 with Heavy duty tow package

I have a 2020 Passport 2600BH and tow it currently with my F150... It's a lariat package 5.4 Triton engine with Heavy duty tow package 3.73 rear axle oil and trans coolers... the Trailer is 5400 dry with 650 tongue weight...(means little) I'm in the process of looking for another truck... although it tows it "ok"... it surely knows it's there... I've not encountered any large grades so far but even slight inclines have this thing downshifting like crazy... in my opinion my truck is not appropriate for any long hauling of my trailer.... JMHO
Take it for what it's worth... been there done that looking for a new heavier duty truck...
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Old 09-11-2019, 07:51 AM   #55
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[QUOTE=blubuckaroo;358330]
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough View Post

When I said "cover you" I meant in the event of an accident, if your rig is found to be improperly loaded by the MAIT Team, you won't be covered by the rated GVWR.
This is serious stuff.
What I was trying to get across is that unless you have your trailer weighed, the only way to be sure about the loaded weight is to take the dry weight and add everything loaded onto the vehicle.
If you have an accident that investigation team won't ask you what your dry weight is/was or how much crap you loaded into it, they will look on the RV tag at the GVWR printed on that tag, if over that weight it's your a##.
When you 1st walked into your particular RV on the dealers lot to look, not buy, that dry weight had already been added to 500 pounds or more by the dealer adding battery/batteries, water, propane or any option the dealer may have added, therefore that posted dry weight before you ever set foot in it is no longer of any use to anyone, now just a random number with no significance.
Apparently this discussion will never end as some are having trouble understanding, but for those looking to buy trucks able to handle your particular RV, don't pay any attention to dry weights for the RV or pin/hitch weights, that number will only get you something less than needed.
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Old 09-11-2019, 08:08 AM   #56
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[QUOTE=travelin texans;358347]
Quote:
Originally Posted by blubuckaroo View Post

If you have an accident that investigation team won't ask you what your dry weight is/was or how much crap you loaded into it, they will look on the RV tag at the GVWR printed on that tag, if over that weight it's your a##.
When you 1st walked into your particular RV on the dealers lot to look, not buy, that dry weight had already been added to 500 pounds or more by the dealer adding battery/batteries, water, propane or any option the dealer may have added, therefore that posted dry weight before you ever set foot in it is no longer of any use to anyone, now just a random number with no significance.
Apparently this discussion will never end as some are having trouble understanding, but for those looking to buy trucks able to handle your particular RV, don't pay any attention to dry weights for the RV or pin/hitch weights, that number will only get you something less than needed.
So, let me ask then...
How much does your trailer weigh?
You can't possibly know unless you either weigh it, or add the weight of the load (batteries, water, propane, better mattress, and all your stuff) to the dry weight on the sticker. In our case we even had to add the weight difference of the dealer installed upgraded steps.
Unless you've done either of these, you're only guessing.
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:01 AM   #57
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[QUOTE=blubuckaroo;358351]
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelin texans View Post

So, let me ask then...
How much does your trailer weigh?
You can't possibly know unless you either weigh it, or add the weight of the load (batteries, water, propane, better mattress, and all your stuff) to the dry weight on the sticker. In our case we even had to add the weight difference of the dealer installed upgraded steps.
Unless you've done either of these, you're only guessing.
Dry weight/shipping weight. Once it's weighed and then "changed by additions" it's no longer a valid measurement (other than a "used to be").

I "used to be 18 years old".... Does that have any bearing (at all) on my current age, hair color, weight, health status, license status or eye color? Same with "shipping weight of an RV"......
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:46 AM   #58
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[QUOTE=blubuckaroo;358351]
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelin texans View Post

So, let me ask then...
How much does your trailer weigh?
You can't possibly know unless you either weigh it, or add the weight of the load (batteries, water, propane, better mattress, and all your stuff) to the dry weight on the sticker. In our case we even had to add the weight difference of the dealer installed upgraded steps.
Unless you've done either of these, you're only guessing.
I knew exactly what my 5th wheel weighed!!
The GVWR was 16.5k, couldn't tell you what the dry weight was & didn't care, after loading for full-time, traveled for about 6 months, adjusted what was/was not needed, I had it weighed at a park that offered the Smart Weigh (every wheel on every axle truck & trailer separately) & weighed 16525 pounds. Also weighed twice at different times at Cat scales & weighed in at within 50 pounds+/- of the gross each time. Funny thing, never once did they look at or ask what my dry weight was at either weigh in.
If your adding weight of items you've loaded, don't know how you would, to your dry weight, you're adding to a fictious number, then you still have no idea of what your weight is, until you head to the scales, you could easily be off by 500-1000 pounds.
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