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Old 12-03-2020, 12:01 PM   #21
Mr. M
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Low cost TPMS System

I just bought my TPMS on Amazon...absolutely under $100.00. I am only monitoring the trailer tires...tandem axle, Keystone Springdale, 266RLLS. Hope this helps.
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Old 12-03-2020, 12:39 PM   #22
Tireman9
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I just bought my TPMS on Amazon...absolutely under $100.00. I am only monitoring the trailer tires...tandem axle, Keystone Springdale, 266RLLS. Hope this helps.

Wondering what support you get from Amazon. Will they answer the question about the need for a booster? What is their advice on how to set the low and high pressure settings to avoid false warnings and to ensure you get a low pressure warning as soon as possible.


What is the warranty? What is the cost of a replacement sensor? What is the pressure range for the sensors?
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Old 12-03-2020, 01:41 PM   #23
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Thank you all for your replies. Christmas came early, and I am all set now, thanks to the generosity and kindness of "Santa Claus".
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Old 12-03-2020, 05:47 PM   #24
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I certainly can see the value of a TPMS, however, I'm still waiting for the major manufacturers to enter the 21st century and use sensors that aren't screwed onto the valve stem.
Cars have had internal sensors for years. I've only seen one manufacturer use them, but it wasn't one of the notable manufacturers.
Still waiting!
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Old 12-03-2020, 05:59 PM   #25
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I certainly can see the value of a TPMS, however, I'm still waiting for the major manufacturers to enter the 21st century and use sensors that aren't screwed onto the valve stem.
Cars have had internal sensors for years. I've only seen one manufacturer use them, but it wasn't one of the notable manufacturers.
Still waiting!



TST has an internal system.
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Old 12-03-2020, 06:19 PM   #26
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TST has an internal system.
Thanks!
I've been waiting for a system that uses the internal system.
Why would anyone use a screw on device like that, and expect an accurate tire temperature report?
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Old 12-03-2020, 06:29 PM   #27
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Thanks!
I've been waiting for a system that uses the internal system.
Why would anyone use a screw on device like that, and expect an accurate tire temperature report?

Actually I have written in my blog that I see little reason to worry about tire temperature if you are monitoring the pressure. Since pressure changes by about 2% for each change of 10F you have a good "read" on tire temperature. It is after all a Tire Pressure Monitor System.


The temperature sensor seems to be monitoring the metal temperature and with metal being a good conductor the metal stems, wheel and hub /brake drum are close to each other so I consider the temperature reading a monitor of the metal parts.
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Old 12-03-2020, 06:41 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
Actually I have written in my blog that I see little reason to worry about tire temperature if you are monitoring the pressure. Since pressure changes by about 2% for each change of 10F you have a good "read" on tire temperature. It is after all a Tire Pressure Monitor System.


The temperature sensor seems to be monitoring the metal temperature and with metal being a good conductor the metal stems, wheel and hub /brake drum are close to each other so I consider the temperature reading a monitor of the metal parts.
Hmm.
How could that be possible?
Sensors hanging out in the air, or sensors inside the tire.
Totally against reasoning.
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Old 12-03-2020, 06:44 PM   #29
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Thanks Tireman. I think 99% of folks want/need to know the tire pressure of their tires to warn of an impending failure. That is what is a TPMS is primarily for. Tire temps are nice to know, but as anyone knows, that is dependent on many factors. Every "internal" tpms module/vehicle I've ever owned shows tire pressure - not temps. Tire temps are dependent on so many factors that they are a "guide", "baseline" to watch your tires.

An auto/truck, with built in electronics all connected, can have a built in tpms just added in. Going to insist that an RV "enters the 21st century, installs built in a tpms with temp monitor" is hoping for the impossible. What system will they put on the RV? How will it be compatible with anything in the divergent systems in our current, highly advanced trucks....multiple manufacturers and platforms?

IMO there is an application out there for anyone that actually wants a TPMS. Hoping for a one shot, combine everything from every maker into one simple answer is.....not realistic.
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Old 12-03-2020, 06:52 PM   #30
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Hmm.
How could that be possible?
Sensors hanging out in the air, or sensors inside the tire.
Totally against reasoning.



The metal conducts heat pretty well. The base of TPMS are metal connecting to brass valve stems mounted to metal wheels. Yes it can be cooled but again I don't know what temperature accuracy you are expecting for the tire reading?



Air inside a tire is a poor conductor of heat and rubber is a good insulator. The hot spot of a tire is buried deep inside the rubber structure at the edge of the steel belts. Only way to get a reasonably accurate tire temperature requires a needle probe. We did this all the time in Indy racing where tire temp accuracy was recorded to the nearest 5F.


OE internal TPMS have the pressure sensor buried in an insulating plastic holder. Not aware of any that measure or report temperature but there may be one.
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Old 12-03-2020, 07:50 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
The metal conducts heat pretty well. The base of TPMS are metal connecting to brass valve stems mounted to metal wheels. Yes it can be cooled but again I don't know what temperature accuracy you are expecting for the tire reading?



Air inside a tire is a poor conductor of heat and rubber is a good insulator. The hot spot of a tire is buried deep inside the rubber structure at the edge of the steel belts. Only way to get a reasonably accurate tire temperature requires a needle probe. We did this all the time in Indy racing where tire temp accuracy was recorded to the nearest 5F.


OE internal TPMS have the pressure sensor buried in an insulating plastic holder. Not aware of any that measure or report temperature but there may be one.
All that's fine, but why wouldn't the manufacturer just start using sensors that are inside the tire?
That's the normal method in the industry.
All I've got back, about this, is conjecture.
Maybe somebody can help with real knowledge on the subject.
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Old 12-03-2020, 07:58 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by blubuckaroo View Post
All that's fine, but why wouldn't the manufacturer just start using sensors that are inside the tire?
That's the normal method in the industry.
All I've got back, about this, is conjecture.
Maybe somebody can help with real knowledge on the subject.

Might want to go have a sit down with the engineers with the Big 3 along with all the RV manufacturers if you can swing that......
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Old 12-04-2020, 08:57 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blubuckaroo View Post
All that's fine, but why wouldn't the manufacturer just start using sensors that are inside the tire?
That's the normal method in the industry.
All I've got back, about this, is conjecture.
Maybe somebody can help with real knowledge on the subject.
To the best of my knowledge, there is no factory representative (of any type, vehicle, trailer, TPMS) that is a member of this forum. As far as I can determine, there has NEVER been a member of any factory that has identified himself as a representative of any manufacturer..... We do have one RV dealership manager (currently inactive) and one RV salesman who periodically posts on the forum. There are no other known "insiders" that are members...

So, finding someone with "real knowledge on the subject" is something you likely will not achieve on this forum. If you want "real knowledge" you'll need to contact Keystone RV, the vehicle manufacturer of your tow vehicle and/or the manufacturer of the TPMS system you're interested in.

Since Keystone does not install any TPMS system in any of their models, it's a "moot point" to postulate why they use external rather than internal sensors. Simply put, they don't use ANY sensors.

That said, in order to save battery power and prevent having to break down the tire to replace the battery, ALL the internal TPMS systems that I've seen will "turn themself off" after sitting stationary for a specific time period. That means you can't check tire pressure until after the TPMS sensor "wakes up". Most "wake up" with a specific "G-force applied with rotation". So you'll need to overcome that "limitation" by either checking tire pressure with a gauge or tow (negating cold pressure reading) to activate the sensors.

That limitation is one of the primary reasons most manufacturers and buyers opt for external sensors. They can be "active 24/7" allowing for cold pressure checks before towing and also allow for "owner/operator battery change" when the batteries need to be replaced.

Sometimes, the "latest technology" is not the "best technology" for every application. I assuredly do not want to have to pay to break down my trailer tires and then pay to rebalance them just to change a battery in an internal sensor while also having to "give up cold pressure monitoring capability to boot.... YMMV
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Old 12-04-2020, 10:48 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by blubuckaroo View Post
All that's fine, but why wouldn't the manufacturer just start using sensors that are inside the tire?
That's the normal method in the industry.
All I've got back, about this, is conjecture.
Maybe somebody can help with real knowledge on the subject.



Have you considered the cost of the internal TPMS used on cars? I suggest you contact your local car dealer and get a quote on replacing a TPMS. There is also the backlog of service on RVs. Pick some simple task and get a quote on the current wait time from your local RV dealer.


FYI I actually worked from 2003 to 2009 on TPMS installation with GM, MB, Toyota, Honda, Saturn, Subaru, Nummi, Nissan, Mazda, BMW, and Chrysler so I might have just a little actual knowledge on the subject.
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Old 12-04-2020, 10:52 AM   #35
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To the best of my knowledge, there is no factory representative (of any type, vehicle, trailer, TPMS) that is a member of this forum. As far as I can determine, there has NEVER been a member of any factory that has identified himself as a representative of any manufacturer..... We do have one RV dealership manager (currently inactive) and one RV salesman who periodically posts on the forum. There are no other known "insiders" that are members...

So, finding someone with "real knowledge on the subject" is something you likely will not achieve on this forum. If you want "real knowledge" you'll need to contact Keystone RV, the vehicle manufacturer of your tow vehicle and/or the manufacturer of the TPMS system you're interested in.

Since Keystone does not install any TPMS system in any of their models, it's a "moot point" to postulate why they use external rather than internal sensors. Simply put, they don't use ANY sensors.

That said, in order to save battery power and prevent having to break down the tire to replace the battery, ALL the internal TPMS systems that I've seen will "turn themself off" after sitting stationary for a specific time period. That means you can't check tire pressure until after the TPMS sensor "wakes up". Most "wake up" with a specific "G-force applied with rotation". So you'll need to overcome that "limitation" by either checking tire pressure with a gauge or tow (negating cold pressure reading) to activate the sensors.

That limitation is one of the primary reasons most manufacturers and buyers opt for external sensors. They can be "active 24/7" allowing for cold pressure checks before towing and also allow for "owner/operator battery change" when the batteries need to be replaced.

Sometimes, the "latest technology" is not the "best technology" for every application. I assuredly do not want to have to pay to break down my trailer tires and then pay to rebalance them just to change a battery in an internal sensor while also having to "give up cold pressure monitoring capability to boot.... YMMV
Well there it is!
You've just told me more about the different needs of an automotive sensor vs a trailer sensor.
Thanks again!
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Old 12-09-2020, 10:16 AM   #36
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This has been an interesting thread and I have learned a few things.
The system I have came with my new F350. It was a TPMS/backup cam package. It is monitored on the Ford screen on the dash. They supplied the transmitter and valves and I had the RV dealer install the valves(internal readers) and rebalance the tires. He did not charge me for that. From this thread now I know why I don't have temperature readings.
As to cost, I had a Dodge van and a valve that rusted out causing air loss. Replacement one piece valve was over $90 ea. I installed a standard valve and then only monitored three tires. One by one all valves were eventually replaced that way.
My Ford truck had a valve develop a leak and theirs is a two piece valve. The valve piece was under $10 to replace.
As for batteries, it was my impression that with the internal units it is the spinning forces that give the valves the sending power, not batteries. Don't recall where I heard that. I don't get a reading until I start moving on either the truck or the trailer. I don't find that a problem as I keep a digital pressure gauge in my truck and can check them when I am stationary. It was checking them while moving that I always had problems with.
All in all I feel monitoring the trailer tires more important than the TV. I have had only one vehicle blowout in my life vs two trailer blowouts in 7 years towing 5th wheels.
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Old 12-09-2020, 11:49 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by jimborokz View Post
This has been an interesting thread and I have learned a few things.
The system I have came with my new F350. It was a TPMS/backup cam package. It is monitored on the Ford screen on the dash. They supplied the transmitter and valves and I had the RV dealer install the valves(internal readers) and rebalance the tires. He did not charge me for that. From this thread now I know why I don't have temperature readings.
As to cost, I had a Dodge van and a valve that rusted out causing air loss. Replacement one piece valve was over $90 ea. I installed a standard valve and then only monitored three tires. One by one all valves were eventually replaced that way.
My Ford truck had a valve develop a leak and theirs is a two piece valve. The valve piece was under $10 to replace.
As for batteries, it was my impression that with the internal units it is the spinning forces that give the valves the sending power, not batteries. Don't recall where I heard that. I don't get a reading until I start moving on either the truck or the trailer. I don't find that a problem as I keep a digital pressure gauge in my truck and can check them when I am stationary. It was checking them while moving that I always had problems with.
All in all I feel monitoring the trailer tires more important than the TV. I have had only one vehicle blowout in my life vs two trailer blowouts in 7 years towing 5th wheels.



RE Temp reading. I do not know of a standard OE TPMS that reports temperature, while most if not all aftermarket systems do. I have previously pointed out that the temperature reading is basically the temperature of the metal parts(wheel, hub etc) and not of the structure of a tire.


Re when a system starts reporting. motion vs internal batteries. I think you will find that internal OE systems shut down after motion stops and do not start up till certain level of motion is sensed. This is done to extend the battery life to the 5 - 7 year level. The signal is transmitted to the monitor by battery. Many aftermarket systems are constantly transmitting (once every few minutes unless there is a low pressure reading). thus the 1 - 2 year battery life.


Hope this helps.
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