Grey water mixed with black tank!

[tbirdkeys]

Hello. I recently purchased a 42 foot 2018 Avalanche 395BH. It has two full bathrooms with 3 grey tanks and 2 black tanks. I just discovered, to my shock, that the rear bathroom shower and the outdoor kitchen sink are both plumbed into the rear black tank. The rear bathroom sink is the only thing. plumbed into the rear great tank.

I seems absolutely absurd. I have been in and around RV’s for over 30 years and I have never heard of mixing grey and black water.

I’ve called Keystone and they told me that’s how they build them. But the gal I spoke with seemed extremely unsure of her answer. I called several keystone authorized dealers who told me it’s unusual, but not unheard of. And because my trailer is out of its one year manufacturer warranty, they wouldn’t even look into it further without me footing the bill for the entire work up and re-plumb.

Is there any other 395BH owners out there who could tel me if their units are like this. Or any other Keystone owners in general who have their grey and black water lines mixed. This seems massively unsanitary and just not right!!

2018 Ford F-350 Powerstroke
2018 Keystone Avalanche 395BH

[flybouy]

My outdoor kitchen sink is plumbed into the black tank. It's a matter of how they can run the pipes and get enough fall to allow them to drain. It's jot a "mix up" and it absolutely isn't unsanitary. The black and gray tanks are the same materials and vented the same. The sinks, tubes, toilets, etc. In your house all drain into the same sewer line. When you dump your tanks it also all drains into a common sewer line.

[notanlines]

TBird, "It's not a "mix up" and it absolutely isn't unsanitary." What Marshall said is true. We also get a large number of members here who have some grey water plumbed into a black tank from one source or another. If it is a large problem to you then I suppose crawl up in there over a coupe week-ends and re-do it, but I wouldn't sweat it.

[LewisB]

Yup, just what everybody has said. Our 2018 Raptor 353TS has the sink in the back 1/2 bath drain into the #2 black tank. No big deal.

[JRTJH]

If you go to the blak bar near the top of any forum webpage, click on the "Search" tab, then enter "Avalanche 395BH" in the box, you'll get a listing of around 15 forum threads that discuss your trailer. A couple of those threads have posts concerning the plumbing that's connected to the rear black tank. You may find some useful information in those threads about more than just the rear black tank.

Welcome to the forum.

[LHaven]

But just from a practical viewpoint, plumbing any shower into the black tank is extremely deficient design. It pretty much negates the significant advantage of having a campsite that allows gray release.

And when a bathroom sink is allocated a major tank all its own, it suggests a serious substance abuse problem at the factory.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by LHaven

But just from a practical viewpoint, plumbing any shower into the black tank is extremely deficient design. It pretty much negates the significant advantage of having a campsite that allows gray release.

And when a bathroom sink is allocated a major tank all its own, it suggests a serious substance abuse problem at the factory.

How many campsites have "gray water only" dumping? I've never seen that.

[LHaven]

"Gray release" and "dumping" have opposite connotations. I was talking about camping areas that allow the free or piped release of gray water at the site but central dump only for sewage. I can't tell you how many of those there are, today but they weren't that uncommon in rural or desert areas when we were fulltiming before Y2K, and we run one today. Showers and kitchen sinks are faster tank fillers than toilets, and it cuts down the frequency that guests have to tow out to the dump station, especially if there's a campground toilet.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by LHaven

"Gray release" and "dumping" have opposite connotations. I was talking about camping areas that allow the free or piped release of gray water at the site but central dump only for sewage. I can't tell you how many of those there are, today but they weren't that uncommon in rural or desert areas when we were fulltiming before Y2K, and we run one today. Showers and kitchen sinks are faster tank fillers than toilets, and it cuts down the frequency that guests have to tow out to the dump station, especially if there's a campground toilet.

Doubtful you'll find any place, other than your backyard if you don't get caught, that allows a release of any kind nowadays.
There's too many out there that don't know the difference between black & grey, or care, & would be "dumping" everything.

[notanlines]

If anyone doubts what Danny (TT) just said, take a deep breath when you exit your vehicle on the truck/trailer parking lot of a rest area or in the truck stop parking lot. If your wife knew what she was walking in she wouldn't get out of the vehicle!

[flybouy]

What TT said. I remember the day when folks would drain their washing machines on the ground to. Then along came the EPA and most states/localities consider it sewage. There are just about as many debates on the forums about gray water as there are weight limits.

The biggest concern as I understand it is dumping gray water directly on the ground and it contaminating the aquafer. Gray water going thru a properly designed sewage treatment will not do that. The statement "Gray release" and "dumping" have opposite connotations. is a semantics argument that letting it trickell on the ground allows it to get absorbed is false. Was there a computation made on the rate of release by how the land perk tested?

Stating that this is somehow a "design flaw" or a result of "substance abuse" at the factory is unfair when you base this on your practices on your property that's been carried over from an experience you had 20 years ago.

[tbirdkeys]

I would love to hear from just one other 395BH owner who knows if their tanks are plumbed like this.

If there wasn’t a reason to keep grey and black water separate, than why would there ever be separate grey and black tanks. The very reason you separate them is so you can add chemicals to help break down solids and toilet paper. Also, you generally leave your grey tank valves open and only drain your black tanks when they are over half full.

[notanlines]

Tbird, your statement "The very reason you separate them is so you can add chemicals to help break down solids and toilet paper. Also, you generally leave your grey tank valves open" isn't viewed by most as being accurate. Very few full-timers add chemicals to their tank to aid breakdown. Solid waste is seldom in the tank long enough to break down, toilet paper is almost liquid the minute it hits the bottom of the tank, and usually those using chemicals do so to keep the smell under control. There is nothing to be gained by 'breaking down solids."

It is quite common for grey tanks to be left open, but that isn't the correct way it's done. Unless your RV comes equipped with a grey tank rinse, you're inviting a build-up of 'matter' in the bottom of the tank, and inviting odors from the park's septic system to enter your grey tank. Yes, a number of RV'ers also leave a 'loop' on the ground as a 'P' trap to avoid this.

[tbirdkeys]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

If you go to the blak bar near the top of any forum webpage, click on the "Search" tab, then enter "Avalanche 395BH" in the box, you'll get a listing of around 15 forum threads that discuss your trailer. A couple of those threads have posts concerning the plumbing that's connected to the rear black tank. You may find some useful information in those threads about more than just the rear black tank.

Welcome to the forum.

I have read every post with a 395BH search result and didn’t find one that discusses plumbing.....

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by tbirdkeys

I would love to hear from just one other 395BH owner who knows if their tanks are plumbed like this.

If there wasn’t a reason to keep grey and black water separate, than why would there ever be separate grey and black tanks. I

The very reason you separate them is so you can add chemicals to help break down solids and toilet paper. Also, you generally leave your grey tank valves open and only drain your black tanks when they are over half full.

I can think of several reasons why there are separate tanks but your postulations are new to me. I'll start off with this reflection on my experience. I've owned boats with toilets, showers, and sinks. Everything drained into a common tank. If you live out in a rural area you have a septic tank. All waste water drains into that one tank. If you're home is connected to a sewer utility then everting in your house goes down to one pipe and discharges to a sewer line typically out under the street.

I don't know if you realize this but in your bathroom at home you have a sink, tub, and toilet. All those drain lines connect under the floor into one pipe that carries all the waste water away. So yes, the drain for the sink where you brush your teeth connects to the drain for toilet just a few feet away.

Not back to your trailer. If you add up the capacity of the black and gray tanks you'll find that having one tank for both would be impractical. The size would require a much stronger construction and require more people to install. Because of the limits imposed by the construction of the trailer frame it's impossible to get sufficient slope to drain water long distances.

In the case of my trailer, the outdoor kitchen is behind the toilet and there's no way to get the drain for that sink past the black tank. So while the blank tank may fill more rapidly there is absolutely no other reason for the manufacturer not to plumb it that way., So while I don't have the "exact model" you have the construction and physics of "waste" drains downhill remains constant.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by tbirdkeys

I have read every post with a 395BH search result and didn’t find one that discusses plumbing.....

https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...e+395BH&page=8

Read post 72 - 77 .... It's been my experience that about half of the "multiple bathroom trailers" from any manufacturer are plumbed to a common tank (sink/toilet in the second bath go to the same tank). In many models, the outdoor kitchen, if it has a sink, also are plumbed to that same black tank. However, on other models, where there is no "easily accessible tank (gray or black) the outdoor sink drains on the ground. Many owners have resorted to a 5 gallon bucket under the sink to catch their "outdoor sink gray water".....

What you find "so astounding" is, in reality, a very common practice in RV's.

[travelin texans]

A second bath with a toilet & sink, how much grey water could you possibly add brushing your teeth or washing your hands? Maybe a couple gallons a day? If that's all it would be beneficial to the black tank to have that bit of extra liquid.
If it had a shower going into the black that would be a totally different scenario.

[tbirdkeys]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

A second bath with a toilet & sink, how much grey water could you possibly add brushing your teeth or washing your hands? Maybe a couple gallons a day? If that's all it would be beneficial to the black tank to have that bit of extra liquid.
If it had a shower going into the black that would be a totally different scenario.

Travelin. That is the problem. It does have the shower plumbed to the black tank. And it is the kids bathroom. So on a hot day, your talking about three showers/day.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by tbirdkeys

Travelin. That is the problem. It does have the shower plumbed to the black tank. And it is the kids bathroom. So on a hot day, your talking about three showers/day.

If my kids took 3 showers each a day, first I'd wonder who swapped my kids and then I'd put a lock on that door and show them where the lake is..

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by flybouy

The statement "Gray release" and "dumping" have opposite connotations. is a semantics argument that letting it trickell on the ground allows it to get absorbed is false. Was there a computation made on the rate of release by how the land perk tested?

What I meant by that statement is that dumping connotes driving to a dump station, which is what you are trying to minimize with gray release.

We're out in pretty much virgin Sonoran Desert here, so perk isn't even a thing.