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Old 04-02-2020, 06:07 PM   #1
ilovelamp
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324 FWHBS questions

Hey guys, new to the forum and fifth wheels altogether. We have used a FEMA camper up until this point that served its purpose. Now that the kids are growing, we needed more room. We travel for work and decided to rent a house due to being on a long term project this time. But the house being in the Dallas area, keeps going up in rent. We purchased our 2013 Sprinter Copper canyon 1 month ago. It was a one owner and had been inside most of its life. Looked super clean inside and out. The only issue I saw was water in the outdoor kitchen in the back corner near the rear panel. The dealership assured us that the water was due to the kitchen door not being closed by a customer looking at the camper. After basically no inspection, I felt that the entire floor of the outdoor kitchen was just linoleum on top of the braces that were coming from the frame. When I pointed it out, the salesman assured me that outdoor kitchens do not have solid floors. Of course, I knew better and was told they would repair the floor and leak that caused it. 3 weeks later, I had the driver deliver it to the campsite and to my surprise, the kitchen still had no floor. After calling the dealership, they again tried to assure me again that there was not supposed to be a floor in the outdoor kitchen. They asked me to watch when it rained and see if I could find where water was coming in. To add to the list of things they lied to me about, the rear panel was delaminated, the entire thing is loose except around the edges and window. In the following two weeks, it rained more than not. The outdoor kitchen was soaked, so wet, I pushed my finger through the panel on the back of the kitchen without any effort. To top it off, I had been checking the levels of the tanks, the first time I went to drain the tanks, all of the underlayment was sagging and dripping sewage. From front to back it was full of sewage.

After spending 1k on transport back there and lodging in the mean time, I will tell you about their "repairs".

1. After 5 hours on the black tank alone, they could not re-create the problem. They would not overfill the tank to see if they could find a leak that way. From what I've read online, even if a black tank overfills, it should come out the vent on top of the camper and nowhere else. So no repairs there.

2. The outdoor kitchen was "repaired" by scabbing a piece of plywood in the outdoor kitchen in the easy to get to places because it would "be a lot of work" to remove everything from the kitchen and repair it that way.

3. The rear panel on the camper was "repaired" by again, assuring me the rear panels separate with age. So no repairs there either.

My questions are:

1. Does anyone have experience with the black tank, specifically know whether it should leak anywhere, even if it is overfilled?

2. Does anyone have one of these and can they tell me if their kitchen has a solid floor? (I know the answer, but humor me)

3. Has anyone with an older camper ever had the rear panel delaminate for any reason other than water damage?

Please don't tell me that I should get a lawyer, I already know. But I need to gather info, to contradict the texts the dealer sent me about all the above issues.
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Old 04-02-2020, 07:10 PM   #2
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Welcome to the forum. I believe the dealer misled you on all three counts. There should not be delamination, the kitchen should have a floor, and the tank should not leak.

However, I’m not sure what remedy you have. Was the sale “as is?” Do you have any type of warranty on it?

It sounds like there is at least one water leak on the rear panel and it may be getting into the kitchen that way too. I would take a real close look where they sealed the rear panel and the roof. Check the caulking for any cracks or separation. Also, check any window seals in that area and the seal around the kitchen door.

Heck, you probably need to thoroughly check all the seals especially the roof. Those seals are supposed to be inspected every 90 days and it doesn’t sound like that was done.

I’m sure others will chime in with more and better information for you.

I’m very sorry for your troubles.
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Old 04-02-2020, 07:14 PM   #3
ilovelamp
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Welcome to the forum. I believe the dealer misled you on all three counts. There should not be delamination, the kitchen should have a floor, and the tank should not leak.

However, I’m not sure what remedy you have. Was the sale “as is?” Do you have any type of warranty on it?

I’m sure others will chime in with more and better information for you.

I’m very sorry for your troubles.
Well... As far as warranty goes, those "repairs" were what they called warranty work. I'm curious about maybe contacting my insurance company and telling them about the repairs, or possibly the lender? Surely one of those two would be upset by such repairs?
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Old 04-02-2020, 07:17 PM   #4
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Your insurance may help. I added some other thoughts to my original post if you want to look at it again.
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Old 04-02-2020, 07:26 PM   #5
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After seeing all the water in the kitchen, I got on top and the seal on the back panel to the top, the sealer or caulk, was split all the way across. Which they supposedly sealed back but, if I don't end up getting help from someone to have it repaired correctly, I will take it apart myself and repair it myself. I would have anyway but I work 70 tp 80 hours a week and don't have a whole lot of time with my kids. The only reason I even took it back to them to give them a chance was because they lied to me in the first place and I had hoped they would do the right thing. Instead, they did the opposite at every opportunity. I had thought about removing the outdoor kitchen completely anyway to have more room in the girls bunkhouse. We have very nice smoker/grills and will never utilize the kitchen, it will just end up being storage for outdoor junk.
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Old 04-02-2020, 07:39 PM   #6
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Yeah...that sucks.

Just for future reference, the proper sealant to use on the roof is either self leveling Dicor or Alpha systems 1021 self leveling sealant. If you tackle it yourself, make sure you know what type of roof you have (either EPDM or TPO) and make sure the sealant is compatible. I believe Dicor has made theirs compatible with either type. All of the roof seals should be inspected and touched up as needed every 90 days.

I also have an outdoor kitchen and I could take it or leave it. So if you remove it I don’t think you would miss it.

Here is a video from a guy who fixed his own delamination if you want to check it out. He does pretty good DIY repairs.

https://youtu.be/XVnzgn5ygaA

If the dealer is not working with you I think it would be worth it to see what your insurance has to say.
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Old 04-02-2020, 07:49 PM   #7
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Yeah...that sucks.

Just for future reference, the proper sealant to use on the roof is either self leveling Dicor or Alpha systems 1021 self leveling sealant. If you tackle it yourself, make sure you know what type of roof you have (either EPDM or TPO) and make sure the sealant is compatible. I believe Dicor has made theirs compatible with either type. All of the roof seals should be inspected and touched up as needed every 90 days.

I also have an outdoor kitchen and I could take it or leave it. So if you remove it I don’t think you would miss it.

Here is a video from a guy who fixed his own delamination if you want to check it out. He does pretty good DIY repairs.

https://youtu.be/XVnzgn5ygaA

If the dealer is not working with you I think it would be worth it to see what your insurance has to say.
As far as the dicor goes, I heard someone on video mention it is trash and not to use it? I know everyone has their opinions. I will put the absolute best back into it. I believe I will probably even replace the wood in the rear with composite to ensure I don't have to do this again. I know I need sealant, replace the termination rail?, trim that goes over it, stainless hardware. Really need to know brands on all that sort of thing as I am new to this game. It may be a waste to most people but when I do something I go all out. It also has a skylight above the shower that is sun faded, I will probably go ahead and replace it with a smoked clear one while I'm up there, unless I can find some kind of residential glass or plastic one that will last longer without fogging over from UV.

Also, the EPDM is the white rubber?
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Old 04-02-2020, 08:02 PM   #8
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I think most people on this forum would say Dicor is the best and I have had good experience with it. It’s not quite like regular caulk so you have to read and follow the instructions.

As far as EPDM or TPO, they are both white. EPDM is black on the bottom. To see the bottom, you can take the trim ring off of the vent in the bathroom. Once the trim is off (only four screws) you will be able to see the overlapping roof membrane in the vent hole and be able to see the back. EPDM is black on the bottom and TPO is white on the bottom.

As far as acquiring trim parts for the back panel, I would take the parts to an (different) RV dealer with a parts department and they should have them or order them. My guess is all or most of the trim pieces, etc, are probably reusable. Edit- I suppose you would need to determine if it was only the seal that failed due to age and UV or if there is a structural issue that caused the seal to fail.

All of the east coast guys are probably asleep. My guess is you will have some other responses with very good information in the morning.
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Old 04-02-2020, 08:08 PM   #9
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Sounds good, thanks for the info. I'll be able to better make a decision on whether I should do repairs myself or try to get some help with that after I get it back and take it apart.
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Old 04-02-2020, 08:15 PM   #10
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Great screen name by the way
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Old 04-03-2020, 03:06 AM   #11
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Great screen name by the way
Haha, thanks man
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Old 04-03-2020, 02:58 PM   #12
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So, got the Sprinter back today... A few pictures of their "repairs"

They gave us a new handle because they lost the keys.

Screwed a janky piece of wood to the linoleum in the kitchen

Knocked about 8 holes in the slides

Stole our propane tank and busted a hole in the door. I specifically told them to watch the propane because the fridge was full of food. Instead they stole it and busted a hole in the door in the process.
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Old 04-04-2020, 06:28 AM   #13
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i
Hey man, since you seem to be the only active member lol. Where does everyone get their parts? I'm going to get some dicor I think and put a new skylight in to start with. As soon as it stops raining I've got to pull that outdoor kitchen. I think I will probably eliminate it altogether and make the girls bunkhouse bigger.
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Old 04-04-2020, 09:28 AM   #14
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I get a lot of stuff from amazon. I have ordered Dicor from Amazon before.

There are a couple of RV dealers near me with a parts department, I only go to them if I have to (usually so I can see a part to make sure it matches) because they are pricey.

Etrailer.com is also a good resource. They have a lot of stuff and free shipping on orders over $99.

https://www.etrailer.com/
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Old 04-04-2020, 09:34 AM   #15
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If you are thinking about replacing the skylight you may want to look at this recent thread about replacing a vent. They talk about Dicor and putty tape for installation. It’s probably very similar to replacing the skylight.

https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=41795
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Old 04-04-2020, 09:58 AM   #16
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Hey man, since you seem to be the only active member lol. Where does everyone get their parts? I'm going to get some dicor I think and put a new skylight in to start with. As soon as it stops raining I've got to pull that outdoor kitchen. I think I will probably eliminate it altogether and make the girls bunkhouse bigger.
Yeah, I’m not sure why no one else chimed in. It may be because the initial post is a little long and there are a bunch of responses so guys are just glossing over it. You could try starting a new thread that is a little shorter?

You could personal message one of the moderators, I don’t think they would mind.

Chuckster57 is a moderator and a RV tech. I’m sure he would have a lot of insight for you. I have seen him offer for people to PM him for help in the past.

JRJTH is a moderator and has a ton of knowledge and experience. I’m sure he could give you some good info too.

Like I said, it may be worthwhile to shoot them a PM if you want some more specific help.
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Old 04-04-2020, 11:36 AM   #17
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Feel free to PM me.
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Old 04-04-2020, 07:22 PM   #18
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Feel free to PM me.
Hey chuckster, I tried to pm you, not sure if it went through. I've been laying out side under the camper in 48° weather. This thing is pouring the gray tank straight onto the ground even with the valve open... I'm at such a loss, can't even shower at this point.
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Old 04-04-2020, 11:10 PM   #19
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As this list of "things" seems fairly long and not very detailed, maybe you could just post the most urgent problem at the moment with pics or detailed info??
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Old 04-05-2020, 08:15 AM   #20
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It sounds like you "bought a traded in trailer that wasn't winterized and has significant freeze damage as well as water damage"....

What I'd suggest is contacting a "mobile RV repair service" and discuss with them, whether they could do an inspection to identify the extent of damage"...

If I were you, I would not start ripping things apart to find out the damage is significantly greater than you expected....

At this point, you need an "outside damage report" that is NOT associated with the dealership that apparently "is not your best friend" based on what they've "helped you do"....

Even if you can do all the work yourself, just the materials to "rebuild a neglected trailer" can easily add up to much more than the trailer is worth....

Sometimes, depending on what you have, it might be cheaper and less painful to just cut your losses, learn the lesson and move on....

I'm not suggesting that you're at that point (yet) but until you really "KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DEALING WITH" you simply can't make good decisions on what to do next....
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