Coaching the Fifth-wheel Backing Process - Page 2

rhagfo · 01-26-2021, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xrated

One thing that I learn about 45 years ago while backing a trailer, and this applies to any trailer....tow behind or 5th wheel trailer....is to use the bottom of the steering wheel of the tow vehicle (truck in this case) as your "indicator". What I mean by that is imagine the bottom part of your steering wheel with an arrow pointing both left and right <------> Move the bottom of the steering wheel in the direction that you want the back of the trailer to go. Using this method, you don't have to stop and think.....OK if I move the steering wheel this way, the trailer will go the opposite way...or vice versa. This method is such that the back of the trailer will go the direction that the arrow is moving...but always use the bottom of the steering wheel as your reference for direction.

Because of the location of the truck/trailer pivot point being in the bed of the truck vs. at the back of the truck on a tow behind, the actual turning motion of the trailer is a bit delayed when compared to a tow behind, so you have to start the turn a little sooner than you would with a tow behind.

I'm going to link a video for you that a couple named Chad and Tara have made that to me, was very helpful. The name of their site is called Changing Lanes and it's definitely worth a watch.....or three or four.

https://changinglanesrv.com/towing/

Quote:

Originally Posted by captcolour

I do the same. My hand on the wheel goes on the bottom of the wheel and I steer from there, turning the wheel in the direction you want the back of the trailer to go.

That makes at least three of us, and taught my DD the same methought for backing her GN horse trailers.

In addition to the RED part of Xrated's post, one needs to also start to straighten out before the 5er is pointed the down the path you want it to go. If you wait too long you will never get it back.

aricker243 · 01-26-2021, 06:23 AM

WATCH THE RV WHEELS (as opposed to watching the back end) and you'll see where it's going when backing up.

xrated · 01-26-2021, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aricker243

WATCH THE RV WHEELS (as opposed to watching the back end) and you'll see where it's going when backing up.

I would suggest that if you do what you suggested ^^^^, make sure, like 110% sure that there are no obstacles in the way of the rear of the trailer for it to hit or make contact with and scratch. I've found that scanning the area, as well as having a radio equipped spotter is very valuable to the process.

jasin1 · 01-26-2021, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xrated

I would suggest that if you do what you suggested ^^^^, make sure, like 110% sure that there are no obstacles in the way of the rear of the trailer for it to hit or make contact with and scratch. I've found that scanning the area, as well as having a radio equipped spotter is very valuable to the process.

I bought Motorola radios cheap on Amazon. They work great but I didn’t like having to press the button to talk while trying to back up. If you have a cell signal and newer TV just call your spotter on the phone and use the hands free phone in the truck. I call my wifes phone as we are pulling up to spot She gets out. and then we just take our time..

johnnybadger · 01-26-2021, 07:33 AM

Jasin, yes, you are correct about docking boats. I think some of my psychology is from measuring my competency in backing in Geraldine against my ability to back in my 45'er from the bridge while facing backwards with my right hand on the port gear shift and my left on the starboard. I pray that I can get to that level of proficiency during this RV year.

Russ, thanks for the suggestion about straightening out sooner. I can see that not doing that is playing a role in my difficulties.

Kevin, I also can see the benefit of using chocks kind of like breadcrumbs to monitor how things are developing as the backing proceeds.

Again, thank you all for your coaching and your patience.

John

ewbldavis · 01-26-2021, 09:47 AM

John if I may - lots of great advice here, but reading all of it and watching videos help minimally.

I was all kinds of nervous at idea of switching from TT to a 5er. Watched a few vids, but at the end of the day you'll get hang of it by simply DOING it. Every campsite is different...so you'll have to adjust. I watch tires and rear of unit to see where it's going.

Only takeaway I noticed is with a TT, you make small steering moves, but with a 5er you make much bigger moves. Parking-lot practice is great, but I bet by end of next season you'll feel pretty good about it

.

dutchmensport · 01-26-2021, 03:15 PM

First, I did not read all the posts on this thread so if some of this is repeated, I apologize. This is how I learned to back up my 41 foot fifth wheel towed by a 22 foot long bed dualy crew cab truck.

First, the turning radius of my truck takes a football field. First things first.

Take your truck to an open parking lot and turn the steering wheel all the way left and all the way right. Drive in the tightest circle you can. At one end of the diameter of the circle you made, place a marker. Drive half way round and place a second marker. Finish the circle and see if you land on the same spot.

Now, repeat going the other direction. Why?

You may find the turning radius of your truck is slightly different on each side. This is good to know and sear in your memory the size of that circle so you'll always know where the extreme limit of your truck is when making tight corners.

It does not hurt to this driving backwards either. All this, just so you know the turning limitation of your truck. You'll be surprised at how much space it takes to do a circle. (Important to know when towing)

Now, hitch fifth wheel and go back to the same parking lot. Take lots of markers, or as I did, scraps of lumber.

Align the truck and trailer straight. Place a marker, or scrap of lumber, and place it at the side of the front tire of your truck and the side of your farthest rear trailer tire. Do this, starting from the drivers side.

Now, without moving, turn the steering wheel all the way clockwise (turning the trailer left). Then start backing up. It will take a little distance before the trailer starts responding to the turn. Once it starts responding, stop. Get out. Place another marker at the same trailer tire. Back up more. You have just marked the trailer's pivot point.

Keep backing up now until the trailer is straight into the (imagined) parking space. When it is, place another marker at the same trailer tire and one at the front truck tire.

Now get out of the truck and look at the position of the markers on the ground. Your starting point, the pivot point, and where you ended up. Now.... sear this into your memory.

Pull out of the spot, circle around again and stop again at the starting marker. Now, repeat the move and see if the trailer responds exactly the second time. It should, or it should come close. Pull out and repeat this several times until you have it down. Every time, you should positing yourself right beside your markers. Yes, repeat, repeat, repeat. Sear that distance in your memory how far you need to be from the (parking spot) and that trailer pivot point.

Now you have your confidence. Move to a different spot of the parking lot where there are lines and use a parking space as your simulated campsite. You know the position the truck and trailer have to be in before you start your backward turn. You know the approximate distance you need to be for the pivot point to work. Now back into your designated parking lot campsite.

You will also want to repeat all of this making a right hand (passenger side) backward turn also.

And if you have to go out to the same parking long and practice this again on another day, there's nothing wrong with that. Do it.

The hardest thing to learn is exactly how far, forward of your campsite spot do you have to be before the trailer pivots. Once you know this distance, and you know how sharp it pivots, campsites will not be an issue any more.

What IS the issue is when you don't have enough room to make the trailer actually pivot because there are campsites across the road from your spot and you have to navigate around other parked vehicles, trees, bushes or campers. So knowing your vehicle's limitations by this little exercise will tell you immediately when you approach a new campsite if you have adequate room to actually get in the spot or not.

I know this probably sounds silly, but it does work. I towed travel trailers and bumper pull trailers all my life. At age 63 I got my first fifth wheel and it took a year of doing just what I described above, over and over again in an open parking lot before I had the Ah-Ha moment. But once you get it, you get it!

And remember, if you change trailers or trucks or both, you'll need to learn where the pivot point is all over again, because no two rigs are the same, even with the same model of truck and trailer. That's why is so important to know how sharp your truck will turn in a circle before you even start out.

One more final note .... when pulling into your campsite, speed is not an issue. You are not there to impress anyone. You are there to get your camper parked safely. It's never about speed or how fast you can do anything with your camper .... NEVER! Take your time.

vampress_me · 01-26-2021, 03:39 PM

I’m just going add a few minor tidbits since I think everyone else has great advice.

One - first backing of the spring after having winter off, don’t expect perfection. In other words, don’t get ticked at yourself if you don’t back it in as good as you remember doing it last summer. For me, I’m always a little rusty the first time backing after not doing it for 7 months especially if I haven’t had to use the horse trailer over winter.

Two - take it slow. Backing into a spot is not a race and you do not need to impress anyone with your mad speed backing skills. It’s much easier, and less prone to overcompensating steering errors, to back slowly.

Three - don’t overthink your steering. Find one way you are comfortable holding the steering wheel, and just do that. Don’t think too much about it. If I’m backing and then stop to really think about which way to turn the wheel instead of just doing it, 75% of the time I’m wrong and frustrate myself.

CedarCreekWoody · 01-26-2021, 06:20 PM

With your experience backing boat trailers you will pick it up fast. Stop taking tips, you already know the basics. You are over thinking this and confusing yourself. Do use the dip maneuver and watch the trailer wheels in your mirror.

Snoking · 01-27-2021, 04:35 AM

I tried to read all the replies, maybe I missed this point. Between a bumper pull and a 5th wheel, I tell people with 5th wheels to pull forward about 1.5 times the distance you think you need to go, as they respond slower than a bumper pull because of the pivot point over the rear axle vs 4-5 feet behind it.

I backed a 270/290 SeaRay on a trailer around the corner(on passengers side) of our house and into a garage in the back yard. Traded the SeaRay for a Bayliner 3388 that stayed in the water and got a 26' 5th wheel to store in that "boat house" in the back yard. I had one devil of a time backing the 5th wheel around the house and into the garage, until I realized all actions have to start much earlier.

I find that hands free cell in the truck and DW on her phone work much easier than walkie talkies. DO NOT be afraid to get out of the truck and go take a look yourself.

We did a play two years ago in our RV Resort that had a RV getting parking in a site scene. I played the guy sitting on a beer cooler drinking a cold one and watching the RV parking scene and being very entertained and amused.

johnnybadger · 01-27-2021, 07:23 AM

Thank you Eddy, Lynette & Woody for your advice and encouragement.

Dutch, I truly appreciate the depth and breadth of your coaching. Very generous!

Snoking, thank you too for the insight regarding the timing of maneuvers. You can pull up a cooler and share a laugh about my foibles any time.

What a great forum this is. All you guys truly build the confidence of rookies like me. I hope some day I will be able to contribute something helpful to all of you.

John

xrated · 01-27-2021, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnybadger

Thank you Eddy, Lynette & Woody for your advice and encouragement.

Dutch, I truly appreciate the depth and breadth of your coaching. Very generous!

Snoking, thank you too for the insight regarding the timing of maneuvers. You can pull up a cooler and share a laugh about my foibles any time.

What a great forum this is. All you guys truly build the confidence of rookies like me. I hope some day I will be able to contribute something helpful to all of you.

John

I posted a reply early on in this thread and I didn't include something that I felt when I bought my first 5th Wheel Camping trailer. I've been towing trailers since I was 15 years old and I'm now 66 years old, so quite a few years of experience.....but....I had never towed a Large 5ver....and I was scared to death about it, before I went to pick it up. As I backed my truck up to the new trailer (Momentum 394M) that was 44' long, triple axle, and a GVWR of 20,000 lb, I got out of my truck and looked at the beast and remember thinking....."OMG..what have I gotten myself into?" My stomach was churning, I was as nervous as a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs. At this point in time, I now had a 400 mile journey ahead of me to tow it home. And to further add to the dilema, once I got to our house, I wasn't 100% sure that I had enough room to make the turn from the main road onto our gravel road that leads to my house. I remember a lot of the advice given to me about taking it slow and easy though and that is exactly what I did...along with a couple of spotters for the trailer as I made my turn in. It all worked out, I had more than enough room, and most of my worry was for nothing. The point is that taking it slow and easy, stopping and looking around if you need to, and most importantly....get some experience doing it.

johnnybadger · 01-27-2021, 09:36 AM

Thanks you Xrated. You describe me to a "T". I am an expert in fretting and studying everything until I could build the doggone boat, RV, new addition, etc., hoping that if I study things enough, I will avoid every major and minor problem that could go wrong - kind of Murphy's Law in reverse. Almost always, that study-fixation does not change the outcome.

As many others have stated here, I just need to start doing it more. But all of this coaching has been extremely valuable. Each one has either focused on something unique, or has added to what has already been brought forth. Maybe by raising my hand and asking for your help, all of this will become a frequently visited thread that will help others like me long into the future.

Thanks again!

dmorgan64 · 01-31-2021, 08:22 AM

I was pretty bad at the backing of the fifth wheel when I first started.
Then I found "Tips on How to Back Up a Fifth Wheel Trailer" on you tube.
It helped me out. Before a trip I would play the video as a reminder.
After a while it becomes second nature!
Use just this one video and take your time!
https://youtu.be/xZQYgJl-uEE

MrEnto · 01-31-2021, 09:05 AM

These two points are important: (In my opinion)

1) as you stop and prepare to back into a spot, position the truck so when you start to back- the trailer is immediately moving in the direction you want it to turn. This means the front of the truck is already pointing to the side you want the back of the trailer to go.

2) When backing down a steep incline, put the truck in neutral and let the weight of the trailer pull you back and don’t complicate things by having an automatic transmission in Reverse pulling you back and causing your front wheels to skid. Sometimes idling in drive helps as you slowly role back. See it at wet bait ramps all the time.

aricker243 · 01-31-2021, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xrated

I would suggest that if you do what you suggested ^^^^, make sure, like 110% sure that there are no obstacles in the way of the rear of the trailer for it to hit or make contact with and scratch. I've found that scanning the area, as well as having a radio equipped spotter is very valuable to the process.

I thought that part was "implied" without saying it? And I thought the OP was smart enough to realize that.......

Gunny Mike · 01-31-2021, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xrated

One thing that I learn about 45 years ago while backing a trailer, and this applies to any trailer....tow behind or 5th wheel trailer....is to use the bottom of the steering wheel of the tow vehicle (truck in this case) as your "indicator". What I mean by that is imagine the bottom part of your steering wheel with an arrow pointing both left and right <------> Move the bottom of the steering wheel in the direction that you want the back of the trailer to go. Using this method, you don't have to stop and think.....OK if I move the steering wheel this way, the trailer will go the opposite way...or vice versa. This method is such that the back of the trailer will go the direction that the arrow is moving...but always use the bottom of the steering wheel as your reference for direction.

Because of the location of the truck/trailer pivot point being in the bed of the truck vs. at the back of the truck on a tow behind, the actual turning motion of the trailer is a bit delayed when compared to a tow behind, so you have to start the turn a little sooner than you would with a tow behind.

I'm going to link a video for you that a couple named Chad and Tara have made that to me, was very helpful. The name of their site is called Changing Lanes and it's definitely worth a watch.....or three or four.

https://changinglanesrv.com/towing/

I have a suicide knob placed at the bottom of my steering wheel which helps me know when my front wheels are straight too. I only use it for turns and backing up. Found out it wasn't illegal and even had a cop notice it and didn't say anything about it.

idcruiserman · 01-31-2021, 03:31 PM

You'll figure it out as you go, especially with a crowd watching you. By the time your trip is over, you'll have it down. Use your mirrors.

Gunny Mike · 01-31-2021, 03:53 PM

My TV is so high I place my orange backup training cones on top of the 4×4 that mark the camping sites so I don't hit them with the TV when backing in. Don't understand why Indiana state parks have these out so close to the road???? I put them on top again when I leave so I know where they are. I have some bad history of hitting things.

Ragermack · 01-31-2021, 06:36 PM

One other trick I use I learned from you Tube.(Sorry having problem finding the link) In any case, With the pivot point of a 5th wheel under the trailer you can make short 3 or 4 foot back and forth corrections and line your truck up with the trailer and never really change the trailer angle or position. You can transition from almost Jackknifed to the truck lined up with the trailer in a short distance.

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