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Old 03-02-2020, 09:12 AM   #21
michaelrc51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LewisB View Post
I would recommend you stop thinking in terms of "how your generator is wired"; you really need to think in terms of your entire electrical system. You likely have:
  • multiple loads (main coach, inverter?, auxiliary jacks/stabilizers, etc.)
  • a factory "disconnect" switch that doesn't really disconnect everything and will drive you nuts if you forget and leave it off during trouble-shooting
  • multiple sources (shore power, generator, tow vehicle, solar system?)
  • load switching (your toy hauler probably has auto-load switching between shore power and generator sources)
  • load monitoring (does your generator system include an auto-start capability based on battery voltage?)
  • multiple batteries with a very large variety in how those loads and sources can be connect to both of those batteries.
In a lot of cases, a dealer (or prior owner) may just indiscriminately hook things up to one of the batteries with no specific plan. Then by using undersized paralleling cables they may place unbalanced loads on one or both of the batteries. If the paralleling cables are missing, then only half of your system may be utilized on some loads, and only half of you system is likely being "charged" when one of the sources is utilized. It all depends on what loads and what sources are connected to what battery. If you truly have your generator connected to only one battery, then the generator can only charge that one battery unless there are other electrical components for charging the remaining battery. So you really need to consider your electrical components from a systemic approach.

For best all around use, it is my opinion that you should probably;
  • Run multiple 12V batteries in parallel.
  • Make sure to use heavy paralleling cables between each battery (ideally, you want each source and/or load to "see" identical resistance to each/every battery in the bank)
  • Actively monitor your battery bank when you are not connected to shore power or using your generator.
Thanks you.

Yes, my current plans are to investigate and get a sense of everything in the whole system and how it is currently setup.

I was asking because I'd like to know if my system was possibly changed. I'm pretty sure mine has been modified. I will find out for sure when I start digging into things but some confirmation of how they were when they left the factory would be nice, and I understand not every unit leaves with the same configuration.
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Old 04-04-2020, 07:16 AM   #22
michaelrc51
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First, thanks for all the input!

I finally have dug through everything and confirmed a few things which I had initially thought.

So, here's the low down of the wiring.

Shore Power is a 6/3
Generator is a 12/4 with the neutrals and positives doubled up on the load 1 and neutral terminals, so running 120v. I'm thinking this wiring could be upgraded, the generator is rated at 46amps of continuous 120v.
Both going to their respective terminals on the WFCO T-57 transfer switch

Load side of the transfer switch is a 6/3 going to the WFCO WF-8930/50 load center

A WFCO WF-68100A Power converter/charger is coming off of the power center

There is an Interstate SRM-27 for the house battery and another SRM-27 which is solely wired to start the generator.

So, this explains why the generator battery is toast. There is nothing recharging the battery, well except for the generator is that is happening.....I need to look into that. Generator is a Cummins Onan 5.5HGJAB-6755K.

For now, I ordered a VMAX MR-127 AGM deep cycle 100ah 12v battery and a Xantrex auxiliary battery charger. I'm going to move the Interstate SRM-27 that was for house power over to start the generator and put the VMAX battery to run house power. I will add in the Xantrex auxiliary battery charger to keep the generator battery charged.

I'll also be adding the Progressive Industries HW50C EMS/Surge Protector.

I think my future plans will probably be a complete overhaul and installation of a battery bank and full Xantrex setup including:
1. Freedom SW 3000w inverter/charger
2. SCP (programmer/controller)
3. AGS (Automatic Generator Start)

And a bank of 4 -6v batteries for off the grid camping. I'll probably put these off for a while, where we travel to there are generally 50amp shore power circuits available. I'm thinking this first round of upgrades should help keep everything working well for the foreseeable future.

How does everyone like the Xantrex brand products?

I've been watching a whole bunch of videos and trying to educate myself on the equipment and brands available and I like their products.
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Old 04-04-2020, 07:24 AM   #23
LewisB
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We had a similar system in our last Raptor - Xantrex Freedom 2000W with remote monitor and 4 6v golf cart batteries. We didn't have the generator auto start. If you can spend the money for this equipment, I think you will really like it. It will serve you well for off grid camping. One thing I have learned with our new Raptor is that I really like the small (200W) solar system. When I park the trailer back at the house between trips, I don't have to plug it in - the solar system is adequate for "storage". It also helps on the road during the day, as well.

Best of luck with your setup!
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Old 04-04-2020, 07:32 AM   #24
michaelrc51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LewisB View Post
We had a similar system in our last Raptor - Xantrex Freedom 2000W with remote monitor and 4 6v golf cart batteries. We didn't have the generator auto start. If you can spend the money for this equipment, I think you will really like it. It will serve you well for off grid camping. One thing I have learned with our new Raptor is that I really like the small (200W) solar system. When I park the trailer back at the house between trips, I don't have to plug it in - the solar system is adequate for "storage". It also helps on the road during the day, as well.

Best of luck with your setup!
This is another reason I was thinking of this Xantrex setup. I could just add on a complete solar system without a ton of new wiring. Just add panels and controller and wire into battery bank and that's it.

When going solar with these units, how are people getting the cabling from the roof down to the battery bank/ basement? I haven't confirmed it but it would appear you could penetrate just before the nose cone on the roof and come down behind the nose cone?

Some of the videos I've watched there were tons of wiring and extra switches for everything. The Xantrex setup seems to minimize the amount of equipment and extra wiring.
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Old 04-04-2020, 07:54 AM   #25
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I have a single 120 watt panel, the cables are dropped down beside one of the tank vent pipes that protrude thru the roof and resealed it.
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Old 04-04-2020, 08:16 AM   #26
LewisB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelrc51 View Post
Shore Power is a 6/3

I think my future plans will probably be a complete overhaul and installation of a battery bank and full Xantrex setup including:
1. Freedom SW 3000w inverter/charger
2. SCP (programmer/controller)
3. AGS (Automatic Generator Start)
A couple of other thoughts regarding your previous post:
Your "6/3" ac wiring is probably actually 6/3+ground. It is not uncommon to use #6 leads for L1, L2, N and them maybe a #8 lead for the ground. But all 4 wires are critical for a proper 50A RV power supply.

Additionally, if you are going to add AGS to your system, there really is no need for a separate battery to start the generator. Assuming the "house bank" will never fall below a preset level determined with the AGS, then you would always have power to start the generator - thus no need for a seperate battery. This would save you the expense and maintenance of having a seperate battery and charger just for the generator.

In actuality, our previous system (xantrex with monitor) didn't have AGS. However, the Xantrex system had a settable alarm for "low voltage" warning. It was loud enough that it would even wake me up in the middle of the night, at which point I would start the generator. So I personally don't think a seperate battery for generator start is needed for the system you are planning to install.

Just something to consider.
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2017 F350 DRW CC 4x4 Payload=5560
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Old 04-04-2020, 09:04 AM   #27
michaelrc51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LewisB View Post
A couple of other thoughts regarding your previous post:

Your "6/3" ac wiring is probably actually 6/3+ground. It is not uncommon to use #6 leads for L1, L2, N and them maybe a #8 lead for the ground. But all 4 wires are critical for a proper 50A RV power supply.



Additionally, if you are going to add AGS to your system, there really is no need for a separate battery to start the generator. Assuming the "house bank" will never fall below a preset level determined with the AGS, then you would always have power to start the generator - thus no need for a seperate battery. This would save you the expense and maintenance of having a seperate battery and charger just for the generator.



In actuality, our previous system (xantrex with monitor) didn't have AGS. However, the Xantrex system had a settable alarm for "low voltage" warning. It was loud enough that it would even wake me up in the middle of the night, at which point I would start the generator. So I personally don't think a seperate battery for generator start is needed for the system you are planning to install.



Just something to consider.


Yeah, all 120/240v cabling is labeled as the conductors, the ground isn’t used in the terminology but it’s there at a smaller gauge, like you stated.

The 12/4 for generator is actually 5 wires......L1 is 2-12 gauge line voltage wires and the neutral is the same 2-12 wires with a separate 14 gauge ground. I’m going to look into rewiring this using 6/2 since it’s a 120v generator. This whip is how it comes from the factory, not really understanding why since it’s capable of 46amps continuously.

Yes! That would be great so I could just have that one battery bank. I’m trying to keep the pin weight down so this would definitely be closer to the current 2 -12v batteries than running that 4-6v batteries (240lbs) and a 12 volt batt on top of that.
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