Fresh Water tank location

[2022 Ram 3500]

I’m about to buy a 2021 raptor 352 and definitely want to know the variance in the pin weight completely dry to completely wet ready to camp. One of those key factors is where is that large freshwater tank located and how much additional pin weight will it add. Definitely looking for you guys insight to the minimum pin weight to the maximum pin weight of the raptor 352. Thanks in advance.

[chuckster57]

welcome to the forum

As a rule in Toy Haulers the fresh tank(s) are over the axles. How much weight depends on a lot of different factors. How many gallons, any waste water being hauled, how much weight in the garage, etc.

[bsmith0404]

It’s not one tank, it’s multiple tanks. They fit between the frame rails near or over the axles. If I remember correctly, your black and gray tank is ahead of the fresh tank and those being full would have more effect on your pin weight than the water tank. With the rear bath, you also have rear black and gray tanks as well as two 40 gallon fuel tanks. There’s a lot of stuff packed up under there. My guess is you can expect your loaded pin weight to be somewhere around 500-600 lbs more than dry weight when you’re completely loaded, but it’ll depend on how you pack it, how much fuel you have in tanks, what you have in the garage etc. Also, you don’t get 1 pound of offset on one end for every pound you add to the other. I’ve mentioned this before, but think of a teeter totter. If you only have one pivot point (single axle) you get a 1 for 1 offset. If you add a second point (2 axles), it now takes more weight on one end to offset weight added to the other.

[sourdough]

There are LOTS of factors trying to figure out what you would have for a pin weight...too many to try to guess in reality. They publish the dry pin weight which you will never see. From there the only things to do are 1) calculate 25% (yes, it's a toy hauler but we are calculating "what if" ranges) of gvwr of the trailer for max) and 2) take it to a scale and see what does what once you get it. I know #2 doesn't help pre purchase but it's the only way you'll know what you've got and what does what to the pin. And no, a pound added on one side of the axles doe not offset a lb. on the other side, there are variables to that as well such as distance from the axle etc. It's not a number that you can definitively calculate. I also doubt you will travel with all tanks (several of them for various liquids) full all the time or the garage loaded on every trip. Are you concerned about truck capacity??

[travelin texans]

Your screen name is "2022 Ram 3500", if that's a dually you're golden as far as weight, if SRW ????

[2022 Ram 3500]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

welcome to the forum

As a rule in Toy Haulers the fresh tank(s) are over the axles. How much weight depends on a lot of different factors. How many gallons, any waste water being hauled, how much weight in the garage, etc.

Yes thanks. Let me be more clear on what I’m looking for. I would like to know the pin weight with LP tanks full, has front generator, nothing in grey and black, nothing in garage (at around 14,800lbs total camper weight). This would be one pin weight i would like to know. Second pin weight i would like to know is full fresh tank and 1,000 lbs in garage (total camper weight around 16,500). This is the range of pin weight i would like to know if anyone can give some insight. I even called Keystone for them to explain how they measured the published pin weight of 3,400 lbs (what conditions this is at and no one could detail this or even give a range of pin weights from empty garage (heaviest pin scenario) to 2,500lbs in garage(lightest pin scenario).

[2022 Ram 3500]

Originally Posted by sourdough

There are LOTS of factors trying to figure out what you would have for a pin weight...too many to try to guess in reality. They publish the dry pin weight which you will never see. From there the only things to do are 1) calculate 25% (yes, it's a toy hauler but we are calculating "what if" ranges) of gvwr of the trailer for max) and 2) take it to a scale and see what does what once you get it. I know #2 doesn't help pre purchase but it's the only way you'll know what you've got and what does what to the pin. And no, a pound added on one side of the axles doe not offset a lb. on the other side, there are variables to that as well such as distance from the axle etc. It's not a number that you can definitively calculate. I also doubt you will travel with all tanks (several of them for various liquids) full all the time or the garage loaded on every trip. Are you concerned about truck capacity??

Yes concerned about rear axel weight rating of 7000s. I have 2022 Ram 3500 Mega Cab High Output SRW with factory rear air. I think i will be over, just a question of by how much. I’m trying to determine if over by 200lbs or 1200lbs. I’m more comfortable over a little but not over by 1,200. I absolutely plan to take to CAT scale after purchase. I hope if don’t have to buy dually but it could be in my future. I love my truck now…and yes i have had duallys in past 350s and 450s. My tires are already rated for over 4k each.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by 2022 Ram 3500

Yes thanks. Let me be more clear on what I’m looking for. I would like to know the pin weight with LP tanks full, has front generator, nothing in grey and black, nothing in garage (at around 14,800lbs total camper weight). This would be one pin weight i would like to know. Second pin weight i would like to know is full fresh tank and 1,000 lbs in garage (total camper weight around 16,500). This is the range of pin weight i would like to know if anyone can give some insight. I even called Keystone for them to explain how they measured the published pin weight of 3,400 lbs (what conditions this is at and no one could detail this or even give a range of pin weights from empty garage (heaviest pin scenario) to 2,500lbs in garage(lightest pin scenario).

It doesn't surprise me at all that NOBODY in customer service could (or more likely would) answer your questions....

First, every (and I mean EVERY) customer will load differently, some will fill the fuel tanks, some will fill the water tanks, some will be towing home with empty water tanks but full holding tanks, some will have 2500 pounds of ATV's in the garage, some will have a cat litter box in the garage, some will have 2 lithium batteries, some will have 8 GC2 deep cycle batteries, all in the forward compartment.....

So, it's IMPOSSIBLE for customer service at Keystone to have any earthly idea what range of pin weights would apply to any specific trailer....

The engineering staff "picks" a single scenario and bases the "generally accepted pin weight and shipping weight (the weights when a representative sample of that brand and model) leave the factory. That's what's listed on the website and in the brochures. YOU WON'T FIND A TRAILER LIKE THAT ON A DEALERSHIP LOT !!!!! If you choose factory paint, you'll change the weights. If you choose a 3rd air conditioner, you'll change the weights, if you choose disc brakes, you'll change the weights....

So, it's no surprise that the "legal department at Keystone" has instructed all of the customer service staff to "not make promises or statements that may not reflect a specific trailer"..... They will tell you "I don't know" or they will tell you "contact your dealership to obtain that specific informaiton" and the dealership will shrug their shoulders and say, "Ask Keystone, they're the people that build them".....

In other words, until you actually put "hands on THAT TRAILER" nobody will or can give you any accurate information about what it will weigh or what the pin will be, based on how YOU configure the trailer for YOUR use.....

Two identical models, sitting side by side, configured with different battery banks and depending on holding tank/fuel tank and garage loading can have a pin weight difference of as much as 1000 pounds.....

So, nobody can give you any specifics. As for "WAGS and SWAGS" (the S is for "scientific guesses") you can figure most fifth wheels range 15-25 percent of weight on the pin. Empty toy haulers are in the upper end of that range and fully loaded garages on toyhaulers are probably in the middle of that range, but even then, with holding tanks and battery banks, that could change pin weights on any specific trailer enough to completley throw all the WAGS and SWAGS out the window.....

[chuckster57]

Odds are nobody took an empty trailer to the CAT scale straight from the dealer.

I would start by weighing the truck with everything your going to have in it ready for camping. Then use the actual weights as a starting point.

Putting 1000 pounds in the garage doesn’t make the pin 1000 pounds lighter.

[bsmith0404]

I don’t know how much your truck weighs right now on the rear axle, but I can throw a guess out there that you will be very close or over the 7k. I have 2800 lbs pin weight and I’m right at 6200 on the rear axle. Another 800 lbs or 3600 pin weight would not be surprising on a toy hauler. When you consider that it has over 3k on the pin to start with, it wouldn’t take much to get to 3600. I’m assuming the weight of your truck empty will be close to mine. I’d take it to a scale and get the empty weight so you know what you’re working with.

[Essvar]

With a full tank of fresh water your pin weight will be 3,948.3 pounds. Give or take .1

[2022 Ram 3500]

Originally Posted by Essvar

With a full tank of fresh water your pin weight will be 3,948.3 pounds. Give or take .1

Thank you, this is what i was looking for but…how does fresh water add much to pin if, like prior responder advised, the fresh tanks are over the axels? Is there a drawing which shows tank locations on the 2021 Raptor 352? Maybe the fresh tanks are in front of axels centerline?

FYI, i have 3,000lbs of rear axel weight rating remaining with 5th wheel installed on truck and truck loaded ready to camper with myself and wife so i was really hoping not to exceed the rear axel weight rating by 700lbs max…10% over rear axel weight rating). This means i need to stay under 3,700 pin weight at max. Seems like i may be over this unless something real heavy in garage. Like i said in prior responses, i do plan to CAT scale when I pick up to confirm weights.

[Essvar]

Originally Posted by 2022 Ram 3500

Thank you, this is what i was looking for but…how does fresh water add much to pin if, like prior responder advised, the fresh tanks are over the axels? Is there a drawing which shows tank locations on the 2021 Raptor 352? Maybe the fresh tanks are in front of axels centerline?

FYI, i have 3,000lbs of rear axel weight rating remaining with 5th wheel installed on truck and truck loaded ready to camper with myself and wife so i was really hoping not to exceed the rear axel weight rating by 700lbs max…10% over rear axel weight rating). This means i need to stay under 3,700 pin weight at max. Seems like i may be over this unless something real heavy in garage. Like i said in prior responses, i do plan to CAT scale when I pick up to confirm weights.

There was a bit of sarcasm in my response.... So in reality NO ONE will ever be able to tell you exactly what a trailer will weigh until... well... its weighed.



I can tell you that the 94 gallons of fresh water are located just in front of the axles. Empty to Full changed my pin wight by about 200 pounds. Which seems right as a full tank weighs 700ish pounds.



You will absolutely be pushing the 3,700lbs that I can assure you.