Lippert Level Up Issue - LG Wont Retract

[JBone]

Hello all,

New here and could really use some assistance.

I purchased a lightly used 2020 Keystone Impact 359 about a month ago. Everything has been working fine on it until last night. I needed to adjust the Reese Goose Box to generate more clearance between my trailer and bed rails. During the course of doing this task, I was utilizing my truck bed and Lippert Level Up hydraulic jacks to assist with aligning the bolt holes on the Goose Box. That task was relatively easy, but now I have run into an issue...

My front jacks/LG's will not fully retract.

They will not fully retract doing Auto Retract or in Manual Mode. They will extend normally, and retract to a certain point, but as soon as the Goose Box sits on the ball in my bed, the LG's stop going up. In Manual mode and in Auto Retract, I have managed to get a pry bar under the LG's and then with some force it will begin to retract extremely slowly. As soon as I let off the Retract button, the LG's will fall slowly an inch or two over the course of a couple minutes. It is like they can take pressure and raise just fine, but they do not want to retract. Also, I have noticed that when I am raising the LG's up higher now, as soon as I let off the button, the front end of the trailer will slowly settle down an inch or two. Not sure if this is normal.

The motor turns on and sounds normal, no error codes, no fluid leaks, battery is at 12.9v and I am connected to shore power. I have also tried the method of opening the solenoid valve on the drivers side LG with a 5/16 allen wrench and using a drill to turn the pump. Still does not retract doing it that way.

Any ideas? I see in another thread in the Fifth Wheel section of this forum, an active member named ChuckS seems to know an awful lot about this system. Is he active over here in the Toy Hauler section? I do not see an option to private message him.

Thank you in advance for any help you can provide!!

[chuckster57]

Welcome to the forum

Chuck S should be along soon, in the meantime here is a link for you to get started. If you need to call Lippert, their tech support is top notch.

https://support.lci1.com/towable-br-...vel-up-br-octp

[JBone]

Thanks for the response and link!

I called and spoke with Ken @ Lippert Tech support this morning. He was quite helpful and sent me a users manual for my system. However, he was asking me to check pressures and bring it in for service and I wanted to make sure I was not overlooking something simple before going through that hassle.

I am hoping it is something as simple as a faulty Hydac valve or maybe even some sort of reset of the system would work... Wishful thinking, but I just cant imagine this thing having any major problems this early in its life. After all, the 4 rear levelers work just fine.

[chuckster57]

Yeah, I know. The front LG are on the same circuit meaning they both extend, retract at the same time. I’m leaning towards a bad valve.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by JBone

Thanks for the response and link!

I called and spoke with Ken @ Lippert Tech support this morning. He was quite helpful and sent me a users manual for my system. However, he was asking me to check pressures and bring it in for service and I wanted to make sure I was not overlooking something simple before going through that hassle.

I am hoping it is something as simple as a faulty Hydac valve or maybe even some sort of reset of the system would work... Wishful thinking, but I just can imagine this thing having any major problems this early in its life. After all, the 4 rear levelers work just fine.

If it were me, I'd put all 6 jacks down on the ground. Don't raise the trailer, just touch the ground.

Then hit retract all and see what happens.

[JBone]

Hope you're right! Thanks again for chiming in. I'll await ChuckS and any others who know a thing or two about these.

I ordered a Hydac valve just in case.

[JBone]

Originally Posted by Javi

If it were me, I'd put all 6 jacks down on the ground. Don't raise the trailer, just touch the ground.

Then hit retract all and see what happens.

I will try that here shortly. I guess my concern with doing that is that the trailer would nose dive. Is that an irrational fear?

Any specific reason you recommended this? Just curious what your thinking could be the issue.

Thanks for the reply!

[Javi]

Originally Posted by JBone

I will try that here shortly. I guess my concern with doing that is that the trailer would nose dive. Is that an irrational fear?

Any specific reason you recommended this? Just curious what your thinking could be the issue.

Thanks for the reply!

I thought you were hooked up to the truck

[JBone]

Originally Posted by Javi

I thought you were hooked up to the truck

Got it. I thought you meant with the truck moved out from underneath it.

I just tried this. Put all 6 down just to where they were touching the ground. Hit retract all, and the motor ran but none of the 6 jacks moved at all. Finally, after a couple minutes, I got the Jack Timeout Error.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by JBone

Got it. I thought you meant with the truck moved out from underneath it.

I just tried this. Put all 6 down just to where they were touching the ground. Hit retract all, and the motor ran but none of the 6 jacks moved at all. Finally, after a couple minutes, I got the Jack Timeout Error.

Then push the retract button and raise the rear and then the front

[ChuckS]

Since this is a six point hydraulic system there is NO REHOME method like mentioned ....

The front LG motion is controlled via ONE HYDAC valve usually mounted on the passenger front LG...

This valves position is (NC) normally closed via internal spring pressure on the internal valve.. it is opened electrically via the solenoid that slides over the Hydac valve...

When you retract the Front LG only then that Hydac valve gets a 12 volt signal from the front forward control module and it stays electrically opened until either an "Auto Level" routine is completed in Front to back leveling OR the user operating in manual mode..

IN your case the Front LG retract a given distance ( not fully ) and that is it and then start to bleed downward...

I would FIRST do a simple test to determine if either of these front LG has an internal bypass issue occurring..

This link to Lipperts simple PDF procedure tells you how.. it should take you maybe 10 minutes at most to test the Front LG...

https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws...cd_0001910.pdf

You WILL NEVER be able to pry up and hold those front LG fully up if they are bleeding down

Why?

2000 psi hydraulic pressure is applied to the retract side of the pistons on each front LG and if either is bypassing then you are trying to fight and overcome that pressure...

It ain't gonna happen...

The front LG are connected in tandem so what affects one front LG affects the other...

ALSO - even though the front LG have their own Hydac valve to control fluid flow the return side is common to ALL leveling cylinders...

*** IF you perform the internal leak test and that is ok then the next place I would go to is that Hydac valve on the front LG... Check the manual override screw located on the front of it and put an allen wrench on it and verify it is fully closed CCW... do not gorilla reef this manual overide screw.. SNUG is perfect...

*** IF that manual override screw is slightly loose then the minute you release the retract motion arrow key the pressure in the system will flow fluid past on the EXTEND side of the front LG making them creep down.

.. that is where I would start with the leak check and the manual over ride screw being snug fully CCW..

*** Also I have a video on the Hydac valve that may be worth your time to watch...

https://youtu.be/6p6BFcfkqg4

[JBone]

Originally Posted by Javi

Then push the retract button and raise the rear and then the front

All 4 in the rear retract. When they are retracting, the front LG's seem to extend some. Once the rears retracted fully, I attempted to retract the front LG's. They only retracted enough to get the Goose Box settled on the ball in the bed. Then they stopped retracting any more.

[jsb5717]

Mine are electric, not hydraulic, so this might not work on yours. Recently when I couldn't get the front landing gear to work by pressing the Front button I was able to move them independently by pressing Left and Front at the same time. Then pressing Right and Front at the same time. They individually moved just fine. After a couple back and forths doing that method I tried just pressing the Front button and it worked normally. I can't explain why but somehow the control board must have been a little confused but that method straightened it out. Good luck.

[JBone]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

Since this is a six point hydraulic system there is NO REHOME method like mentioned ....

The front LG motion is controlled via ONE HYDAC valve usually mounted on the passenger front LG...

This valves position is (NC) normally closed via internal spring pressure on the internal valve.. it is opened electrically via the solenoid that slides over the Hydac valve...

When you retract the Front LG only then that Hydac valve gets a 12 volt signal from the front forward control module and it stays electrically opened until either an "Auto Level" routine is completed in Front to back leveling OR the user operating in manual mode..

IN your case the Front LG retract a given distance ( not fully ) and that is it and then start to bleed downward...

I would FIRST do a simple test to determine if either of these front LG has an internal bypass issue occurring..

This link to Lipperts simple PDF procedure tells you how.. it should take you maybe 10 minutes at most to test the Front LG...

https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws...cd_0001910.pdf

You WILL NEVER be able to pry up and hold those front LG fully up if they are bleeding down

Why?

2000 psi hydraulic pressure is applied to the retract side of the pistons on each front LG and if either is bypassing then you are trying to fight and overcome that pressure...

It ain't gonna happen...

The front LG are connected in tandem so what affects one front LG affects the other...

ALSO - even though the front LG have their own Hydac valve to control fluid flow the return side is common to ALL leveling cylinders...

*** IF you perform the internal leak test and that is ok then the next place I would go to is that Hydac valve on the front LG... Check the manual override screw located on the front of it and put an allen wrench on it and verify it is fully closed CCW... do not gorilla reef this manual overide screw.. SNUG is perfect...

*** IF that manual override screw is slightly loose then the minute you release the retract motion arrow key the pressure in the system will flow fluid past on the EXTEND side of the front LG making them creep down.

.. that is where I would start with the leak check and the manual over ride screw being snug fully CCW..

*** Also I have a video on the Hydac valve that may be worth your time to watch...

https://youtu.be/6p6BFcfkqg4

Thank you for responding!

I am going to attempt to do the test to see if it is having an internal bypass issue. A couple questions on that:

1. The instructions say to retract jack fully. I cannot get the LG jacks retracted fully. Does this matter? If so, what is the remedy?

2. It references the "extend" hose. Is that the red or black hose?

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by JBone

Thank you for responding!

I am going to attempt to do the test to see if it is having an internal bypass issue. A couple questions on that:

1. The instructions say to retract jack fully. I cannot get the LG jacks retracted fully. Does this matter? If so, what is the remedy?

2. It references the "extend" hose. Is that the red or black hose?

It should not matter when trying to do the internal bypass check.

Red or orange colored hoses are EXTEND.. all black are return hoses..

The fact that when you state the mid and rear levelers all retract and the front LG moves tells me one of four issues is causing your problem

1. Front LG Hydac valve is not fully closing allowing fluid to flow..this can be caused by either the manual override screw on the front LG is not fully CCW

Or

2. The front LG Hydac valve needle seat has some crap on it inside the valve not allowing it to fully seat closed under its internal spring pressure

Or

3. One of the front LG is bypassing internallly

Or… and this is a rare case but can cause same issue..

4. One of the mid/rear levelers is bypassing internally and that fluid is back flowing to the front LG via its return line

Page 17 of this Lippert install manual for six point hyd level system will illustrate the fluid lines and may make things clearer for you to understand..

https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws...cd-0001533.pdf

IMO the Lippert six point hydraulic system is the best in the market. Mine is now on its ninth season of use with zero issues

[chuckster57]

Chuck: thank you for your responses, I’ve been out of the loop with level up and ground control for a while since I’m in a shop that is mainly collision repair. As you respond, I remember doing those tests, but with my focus on Jwrap, filon and fiberglass work…and I’m getting old, you know what I’m saying I hope.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Chuck: thank you for your responses, I’ve been out of the loop with level up and ground control for a while since I’m in a shop that is mainly collision repair. As you respond, I remember doing those tests, but with my focus on Jwrap, filon and fiberglass work…and I’m getting old, you know what I’m saying I hope.

Chuck keep in mind what Clint Eastwood said when asked how he just kept on going...."don't let the old man in".

[JBone]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

It should not matter when trying to do the internal bypass check.

Red or orange colored hoses are EXTEND.. all black are return hoses..

The fact that when you state the mid and rear levelers all retract and the front LG moves tells me one of four issues is causing your problem

1. Front LG Hydac valve is not fully closing allowing fluid to flow..this can be caused by either the manual override screw on the front LG is not fully CCW

Or

2. The front LG Hydac valve needle seat has some crap on it inside the valve not allowing it to fully seat closed under its internal spring pressure

Or

3. One of the front LG is bypassing internallly

Or… and this is a rare case but can cause same issue..

4. One of the mid/rear levelers is bypassing internally and that fluid is back flowing to the front LG via its return line

Page 17 of this Lippert install manual for six point hyd level system will illustrate the fluid lines and may make things clearer for you to understand..

https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws...cd-0001533.pdf

IMO the Lippert six point hydraulic system is the best in the market. Mine is now on its ninth season of use with zero issues

Got it, thank you for all the great info!

I have not had a chance to do the internal bypass test yet, but wanted to give you an update to see if this helps point to a solution.

Twice this afternoon I have successfully been able to get the LG's to fully retract like normal. And both times it was immediately after I fully loosened the 5/16 allen head set screw on the front LG valve and then retightened it. However, once I go to extend the LG's I am back to square one. I will extend them to get the Goose Box above my ball in the bed and the trailer will float down a little when I let off the button.

Also, I cannot replicate this every single time. What I mean by that is that loosening and retightening the 5/16 allen set screw does not guarantee it will work again. It has just happened to work twice for me.

I hope this all is clear and thanks again everyone for the help.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

Since this is a six point hydraulic system there is NO REHOME method like mentioned ....



https://youtu.be/6p6BFcfkqg4

I'm well aware that there is no specific re-home procedure for the hydraulic Level Up Lippert system... however, when I had issues with the jacks not responding as expected when using "retract all" as in the right side went up about 6" and stopped then the left side started and went up all the way and then the front went up... the right side stayed down where it had stopped..

I could and did raise the right side manually... this happened again the next time I had deployed the rear jacks at a campsite and again I used manual to finish raising the right side..

The Lippert tech I talked to told me to try it several times and see if it would start acting correctly.. I did... and after 5 or 6 repeats it has never done it again.. in the last 20 or so trips.. Maybe it was constipated

[JBone]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

It should not matter when trying to do the internal bypass check.

Red or orange colored hoses are EXTEND.. all black are return hoses..

The fact that when you state the mid and rear levelers all retract and the front LG moves tells me one of four issues is causing your problem

1. Front LG Hydac valve is not fully closing allowing fluid to flow..this can be caused by either the manual override screw on the front LG is not fully CCW

Or

2. The front LG Hydac valve needle seat has some crap on it inside the valve not allowing it to fully seat closed under its internal spring pressure

Or

3. One of the front LG is bypassing internallly

Or… and this is a rare case but can cause same issue..

4. One of the mid/rear levelers is bypassing internally and that fluid is back flowing to the front LG via its return line

Page 17 of this Lippert install manual for six point hyd level system will illustrate the fluid lines and may make things clearer for you to understand..

https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws...cd-0001533.pdf

IMO the Lippert six point hydraulic system is the best in the market. Mine is now on its ninth season of use with zero issues

Just an update. I replaced the Hydac valve on the front LG and same issue. I just replaced the valve itself and not the solenoid if that makes any difference. Still the same scenario. When all 4 rear jacks are fully retracted and I attempt to retract them more via the button on the LCD control panel (lets call it "over retracting"), the front LGs go up. Interestingly, they go up at full speed and the trailer stays when I let off the button. Currently, if I try to extend the LGs the proper way, the trailer nose goes up very slow and then settles down when I let off the button.

Using the air bags on my truck, I am able to lift the front end of the trailer enough to get a pry bar under the LGs. When I attempt to retract them on the LCD screen and assist with the pry bar, they go up very slowly. Once the curb side LG gets all the way up, the drivers side LG starts to go up slowly. The motor will time out before they are both fully retracted. That is how slow they are moving. Once that happens, the LGs both drop an inch or two and stop.

I am at a loss. I would think that if there was an internal bypass issue, the LGs would not stay extended when getting them up by way of "over retracting" the rear jacks.

ChuckS, if you have any ideas given this new info, please let me know. Your help is greatly appreciated!!

At this point, I am thinking there is either an issue with one of the solenoids, the display (brain), maybe one of the Hydacs for the rears, or something else.

I am about to call the dealership I bought it from, but that will most likely mean I will be cancelling my maiden trip with the trailer in 2 weeks...