Boondocking with a generator

[bsmith0404]

If you fill any of your tanks in two days, you’re using way more water or have a lot more people than I do. With a nearby dump station and a two night stay, I wouldn’t bother to bring a honey wagon.

[jxnbbl]

Originally Posted by DominickP53

Thanks for input. The front straps/screws on my SolarFlex 200 stripped out of the roof and it flipped over on its face. The panels were shattered and them frame came apart putting a quarter size gash in my roof. I don't know the cause of how the straps and screws came out. My only thoughts are wind (50 mph)during a storm at our home. Or, when the techs installed a second A/C unit in the front unbolted it and didn't bolt it back properly. One thing I'm positive about is that I didn't hit a low hanging wire or overhang.
Fortunately, the dealer thru Keystone are replacing the Solarflex.

Oh.....that post! They should sustain > 50mph winds (maybe not driving into a 50mph headwind)

[DominickP53]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Dom,

I can't find the specs for a Champion generator rated "dual fuel 3500/3200" That doesn't mean there isn't one, just that I can't find the specs for it.

The closest I can find is an open frame (contractor generator) rated this way:

GAS-- 3400 surge/3100 sustained
PROPANE-- 3060 surge/2790 sustained

The Manual for that generator states that output power is reduced 3.5% for every 1000' of altitude.

So, assuming your generator has similar output as this one AND you're running it on propane at 3000' elevation, you're looking at a reduction of 10.5%, giving you an estimated output of 2738 surge/2497 sustained.

2500 watts is 20.8 amps. That MAY be enough to operate your air conditioner and the converter/charger, but I'd worry about voltage drop and burning out the compressor in the air conditioner on a hot day....

If it were my trailer, I'd not use that single generator and honestly, if the cabin has a 20 amp outlet, plugging into that isn't a lot different than running the generator on propane at altitude. Neither will power the trailer for the "long haul weekend".

buying a second generator to parallel may be an option, but that may cost nearly as much as just buying a single generator in the 5500/4500 watt range. To be honest, I don't think I'd buy another generator for a single trip. I think being in the mountains, during the day, you'll probably be outside anyway, and at night, with the windows in the trailer open and a fan or two to move the air, it should be cool enough to sleep without the air. You really don't want to run a generator overnight anyway, mainly because of the noise and the risk of starting a fire or annoying the cabin occupants with all the extra noise while they're trying to sleep.

I think I'd look into the possibility of setting the trailer close enough to the cabin to plug into an available 20 amp outlet, set the refrigerator and water heater to gas, skip using the air conditioner and the microwave, open the windows, turn on a fan and enjoy the "mountain breezes"....

Now that's some good advice. Hope it is cool in the evening in NW PA mountains in July. Cause me and the mrs. don't function well without a good night's rest. Especially me! But all in all. I will take your advice and not plan on running a gen at night if not totally necessary. Thanks.

[bsmith0404]

When we boondock in the mountains down here in NM we don’t run the AC at night. Open the windows and enjoy. We leave the windows open in the morning until the outside temps are within a couple degrees of the inside temps then shut the windows and run the gen/ac as needed. Granted we’re up at 8000 feet and the day time temps aren’t that hot compared to the valley. I don’t know what elevation you’ll be at, but I can’t imagine PA being much, if any hotter than NM

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

When we boondock in the mountains down here in NM we don’t run the AC at night. Open the windows and enjoy. We leave the windows open in the morning until the outside temps are within a couple degrees of the inside temps then shut the windows and run the gen/ac as needed. Granted we’re up at 8000 feet and the day time temps aren’t that hot compared to the valley. I don’t know what elevation you’ll be at, but I can’t imagine PA being much, if any hotter than NM

It won't be anywhere near 8,000'! Out here in the east it's not only the heat (was near 100 a few days ago) but it's also the humidity. If your sweat can't evaporate you can't cool off. Lying in bed with 80+ temps at night and 70% or more humidity isn't comfortable for most folks.

[bsmith0404]

Originally Posted by flybouy

It won't be anywhere near 8,000'! Out here in the east it's not only the heat (was near 100 a few days ago) but it's also the humidity. If your sweat can't evaporate you can't cool off. Lying in bed with 80+ temps at night and 70% or more humidity isn't comfortable for most folks.

Trust me, I understand heat/humidity. I’m originally from WI and was stationed in many humid locations like Langley AFB, VA, and have been to upstate NY several times. I also know the mountains in WV, which isn’t far from PA, can have pretty nice weather. Not sure what part of PA the OP will be in, what altitude he’ll be at, or what the typical daytime and over night temps will be. I was just pointing out there’s a big difference between the valley and the mountains and it may be possible for him to be able to enjoy the weather and do temp management inside the RV.

[roadglide]

Originally Posted by DominickP53

Does Keystone publish a wattage list for RV appliances?
We are boondocking at a friends camp in the Allegheny Natl forest in PA soon where we will be running on a Propane 3500w generator. NO SHORE POWER.
I want to determine if I can run our AC, refrigerator, water pump, hot water heater, and a few lights.
Our Solarflex 200 installed came detached on our first trip with our new 5W. It’s out until dealer can repair.
Will bring a battery charger to trickle charge battery when AC and heavy loads are off.
There is a well we can use to fill our fresh water tank. Should I bring my own water from home?
Any advice on preparing for our weekend boondocking trip.
Thanks
Dom

When I over load my Champion generator it start’s surging and shuts down. One other option is to run a small 2000 w Champion generator in the evening to keep your batteries charged and watch tv there extremely quiet . Mine will run 7 hours with 1/3 load .

[roadglide]

We’re on the topic of generators . My 5500 Onan has 2 -30 amp breakers . Does that make it a 50 amp or 60 amp generator? When I run both air conditioners does good for a while till it starts getting hot after that it starts acting up. I’m connected to 50 amp shore power at a casino. I can run both ACs, hot water-heater , refrigerator with no trouble if I try that with my 5500 it will not do it. I think John mentioned the generators are rated but will not perform as advertised.

[bsmith0404]

Gens have two ratings, running and peak watts. Running is what it puts out on a constant basis and realistically is the power you have available. Peak is what it can go to under demand. The problem with peak ratings is the breakers in the RV typically trip before it can get up to the power required. As for 30’or 60 amp, it’s 30. You have two 30 amp plugs that are connected to their own 30 amp breaker. You could use a parallel kit on those two to plug in a 50 amp RV. I’m not 100% sure how the gen will respond, but I’m guessing that the 5500 watt rating will give you about 45 amps split between the two plugs, so about 22-23 amps each. Your owners manual may give more info on that.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by roadglide

We’re on the topic of generators . My 5500 Onan has 2 -30 amp breakers . Does that make it a 50 amp or 60 amp generator? When I run both air conditioners does good for a while till it starts getting hot after that it starts acting up. I’m connected to 50 amp shore power at a casino. I can run both ACs, hot water-heater , refrigerator with no trouble if I try that with my 5500 it will not do it. I think John mentioned the generators are rated but will not perform as advertised.

5,500 watts ÷120 volts = 45.8 amps. That 5,500 watts is possibly the "surge" rating and not the "continuous wattage" rating. Look up the model number to find the continuous load rateing. Continuously running at that load will likely end up damaging the generator, the A/C units, or both.

"Getting hot and acting up" is not good for internal combustion engines or for the electric windings in a generator. Heat will damage both and the damage is cumulative, in other words every time it overheats it will suffer more damage more rapidly.

[roadglide]

Originally Posted by flybouy

5,500 watts ÷120 volts = 45.8 amps. That 5,500 watts is possibly the "surge" rating and not the "continuous wattage" rating. Look up the model number to find the continuous load rateing. Continuously running at that load will likely end up damaging the generator, the A/C units, or both.

"Getting hot and acting up" is not good for internal combustion engines or for the electric windings in a generator. Heat will damage both and the damage is cumulative, in other words every time it overheats it will suffer more damage more rapidly.

I agree it got hot and I had to replace a carburetor because of the float. It runs fine on one AC . Cummings Onan generators have no information on floats nowhere does anybody else on the Internet damn Sam .

[dutchmensport]

1) Does Keystone publish a wattage list for RV appliances?

I've not seen anything published by Keystone, but that doesn't mean it does not exist.

There are, however, some web sites that give approximate wattage lists.

Generatorist

Campergrid

RVbasics

RVtechLibrary

And even RV Life has a simple blog on the subject; Click here.



2) We are boondocking at a friends camp in the Allegheny Natl forest in PA soon where we will be running on a Propane 3500w generator. NO SHORE POWER.
I want to determine if I can run our AC, refrigerator, water pump, hot water heater, and a few lights.

Even with the most robust battery system, running all the appliances you listed will deplete a battery much, much faster than you imagine. You "can" run each of these appliances, but not for any length of time. The house lights in your camper are already 12 volt DC and already run off your batter, as does the water pump, and water heater (electronics). These alone can last for a few days. But your camper will also have other parasitic battery drain going on that will deplete the battery much faster; for example the electronics on your entertainment system, the electronics going on in your AC/furnace thermostat, the CO2 detector to name only 3 of them.

The water heater can run on Gas will actually will keep water hot for a long-long time (if there was no other battery drain going on anywhere). But, if you flip it over to electric, it will drain your battery very, very quick.

You WILL be able to run all of these appliances with the generator, but if you have 2 AC, only one. You will be using your generator the same as hooking up to 30 amp shore power. You will most likely NOT be able to run them all at the same time with a single generator.


3) Our Solarflex 200 installed came detached on our first trip with our new 5W. It’s out until dealer can repair. Will bring a battery charger to trickle charge battery when AC and heavy loads are off.

If you are planning on bringing along a generator, when you plug your camper into the generator, the camper converter will charge the house battery. However, if you are not planning on plugging the camper into a generator directly, or it does not have the available plug for a 30 amp, then this is probably your alternative. HOWEVER, you can plug in a 15/20 amp plug into the generator using a dog bone 20 to 30 amp adapter or what is known as a "hocky puck" adapter. Then, the converter will charge your battery, you can run the microwave, and maybe a few other appliances while plugged into the generator. You are limited by the output of the generator.




Or like this, click here.

4) There is a well we can use to fill our fresh water tank. Should I bring my own water from home?

Only you can answer that question? Is it an open well, like one with a bucket you drop down and scoop up the water with? If so, I'd never drink from it! Bird poop tastes terrible, as do snails, bugs, moss, dead mosquitoes, and potentially, any number of small critters that might have fallen into the well and drown, rotted and floating around on the bottom.

If is an old fashioned hand pump, then you probably can. It wouldn't hurt to take a safe water tester to check it out first though.

5) Any advice on preparing for our weekend boondocking trip.

Be flexible, have fun, and don't over think anything. ... especially .... be flexible. Remember, YOU choose to do this!


Thanks
Dom

[JRTJH]

To add to Dom's comments (which are very thorough), every generator owner's manual I've seen has a chart with "average wattage consumption" for many/most things you'd want to use. And, every RV related component that has an owner's manual/operator's manual, will have a chart with specifications. It may be "charted in amps not watts" but the conversion between them is simple. To convert watts to amps, divide by 120 and to convert amps to watts, multiply by 120. These calculations will work for a 120 volt circuit, so if you're trying to run "exotic voltages" look up the actual voltage on your lines, but RV generators are typically 120 VAC.

[bsmith0404]

Unless no missed something, you’re not running an inverter, so the water heater won’t affect the batteries if you turn it on electric. In fact, it won’t work at all on electric unless you’re plugged into shore power or a generator. The electric side of the water heater (if it’s dual) is 120v.

[jxnbbl]

One item I thought about...TEST your setup at your house! On our first trip we had a generator shipped to a relatives house on our route and picked it up. That was where we were introduced to "ground neutral plug" (I made one a day or two later) as our EMS would shut down power when plugged into the generator.



So you might not be familiar with this, but it most likely is needed if you are using an EMS system (recommended) with the generator.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by dutchmensport

1) Does Keystone publish a wattage list for RV appliances?

I've not seen anything published by Keystone, but that doesn't mean it does not exist.

There are, however, some web sites that give approximate wattage lists.

Generatorist

Campergrid

RVbasics

RVtechLibrary

And even RV Life has a simple blog on the subject; Click here.



2) We are boondocking at a friends camp in the Allegheny Natl forest in PA soon where we will be running on a Propane 3500w generator. NO SHORE POWER.
I want to determine if I can run our AC, refrigerator, water pump, hot water heater, and a few lights.

Even with the most robust battery system, running all the appliances you listed will deplete a battery much, much faster than you imagine. You "can" run each of these appliances, but not for any length of time. The house lights in your camper are already 12 volt DC and already run off your batter, as does the water pump, and water heater (electronics). These alone can last for a few days. But your camper will also have other parasitic battery drain going on that will deplete the battery much faster; for example the electronics on your entertainment system, the electronics going on in your AC/furnace thermostat, the CO2 detector to name only 3 of them.

The water heater can run on Gas will actually will keep water hot for a long-long time (if there was no other battery drain going on anywhere). But, if you flip it over to electric, it will drain your battery very, very quick.

You WILL be able to run all of these appliances with the generator, but if you have 2 AC, only one. You will be using your generator the same as hooking up to 30 amp shore power. You will most likely NOT be able to run them all at the same time with a single generator.


3) Our Solarflex 200 installed came detached on our first trip with our new 5W. It’s out until dealer can repair. Will bring a battery charger to trickle charge battery when AC and heavy loads are off.

If you are planning on bringing along a generator, when you plug your camper into the generator, the camper converter will charge the house battery. However, if you are not planning on plugging the camper into a generator directly, or it does not have the available plug for a 30 amp, then this is probably your alternative. HOWEVER, you can plug in a 15/20 amp plug into the generator using a dog bone 20 to 30 amp adapter or what is known as a "hocky puck" adapter. Then, the converter will charge your battery, you can run the microwave, and maybe a few other appliances while plugged into the generator. You are limited by the output of the generator.




Or like this, click here.

4) There is a well we can use to fill our fresh water tank. Should I bring my own water from home?

Only you can answer that question? Is it an open well, like one with a bucket you drop down and scoop up the water with? If so, I'd never drink from it! Bird poop tastes terrible, as do snails, bugs, moss, dead mosquitoes, and potentially, any number of small critters that might have fallen into the well and drown, rotted and floating around on the bottom.

If is an old fashioned hand pump, then you probably can. It wouldn't hurt to take a safe water tester to check it out first though.

5) Any advice on preparing for our weekend boondocking trip.

Be flexible, have fun, and don't over think anything. ... especially .... be flexible. Remember, YOU choose to do this!


Thanks
Dom

Id recommend NEVER use the hockey puck type adapter, they are a known fire hazard. Pay a bit more & get a good quality dog bone adapter, a 50/30 & 30/15 &/or a 50/15 will come in handy at some point is you camp regularly.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

Id recommend NEVER use the hockey puck type adapter, they are a known fire hazard. Pay a bit more & get a good quality dog bone adapter, a 50/30 & 30/15 &/or a 50/15 will come in handy at some point is you camp regularly.

Danny I don't know about a fire hazard because it has never happened to me. I do however keep one at the barn that is nice and melted just to remind me when I see it. Probably would have started a fire if I hadn't seen it.

[Kzneft]

While everyone else is arguing and writing long essay responses, I will make mine short and sweet.
1) I have a build in generator. Onan 5500
2) I have two AC Units
3) The generator will power both AC's at the same time, but when I also run the Microwave it will make the generator work extra hard.
4) I always fill water tanks before leaving. Sometimes hard to find water, but might be easy in your case.
Have a great camping trip!

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

Yes you can parallel two “like” gens together to increase your power. As for understanding what runs on what, if it plugs into a wall outlet, microwave, TV, AC (hardwired) count on it being 120v. If not, furnace, lights, water heater, it’s typically 12v. A good way to understand the differences, if it works off the battery when you’re not plugged in, it’s 12v. If it doesn’t work, it’s 120v.

Brute force analysis: turn off all the circuit breakers in your converter, leave your fuses in. Whatever doesn't run anymore runs on AC.

[Abcd]

Don't run the microwave and the ac at the same time. It don't like it.