Help newbies pick their first truck (and potentially Rv)

[grakka]

Hey all,

My wife and I need to buy a truck and we want to buy a truck that will handle everything we can throw at it and last for 10-15 years. Towing, mild offroading, overlanding, etc.

We've never pulled an RV and most of the camping I've done was in someone elses RV. That being said we think we'd like the lifestyle but we aren't 100%. What we want to avoid is buying too little truck and end up regretting it - especially if we are going to spend 60k+ on a vehicle.

We are assuming that we will enjoy RVing but we know a bit about ourselves - we like lounging about for a day or two at a time when traveling. We know that we will want an RV where we can both have our own desks. From all the research we've done - that seems to be best done in a toy hauler where the garage is used for that purpose. We aren't too concerned with guests as well. Our plan isn't to start with a 5th wheel, but learn with something smaller (and cheaper)

I've narrowed the trucks down to a Ram 3500 or a Ford F350 - I'm not interested in a dually as we would prefer something easier to drive around town.

All that being said, I love the f350 Tremor - but the research I've shown shows that:

F350 Tremor ultimate lariat - 3200-3400 payload sticker
F350 Ultimate Lariat long bed - 4500 (but there was a recall that dropped them to 3900!?!)

Ram 3500 Limited mega cab - 3700-3800 sticker
Ram 3500 long bed - 3900-4200

I weigh 250lbs and my wife weighs 120. My understanding is that the hitch may way another 200 - so I figure to be safe (we don't have nor want kids) we say that we will add 600lbs in the truck. I imagine anything heavier would go in the 5th wheel on a trip.

Given that I think I'd need to look at
2600# pin weight on the tremor - 11,500lb 5th wheel max
3100# on the ram megacab - 13,500 5th wheel max
3300# pin on the long beds - 14,500 5th wheel max


Does this all seem correct? Does our idea of having an office in a trailer or 5th wheel not realistic without a dually?

I love the Tremor, but I think its not workable - would love if someone could point me towards options that could work. Pretty sure I will need to go F350 long bed or 3500 long bed.

[Brentw]

Glad you are working your numbers, weight wise, be aware brochure numbers are bare trucks, the only real number is vehicle specific on the load sticker. If you are planning to get to a toy hauler, go dually. Hauled mine on a 3500 srw, skirted with the legal weight limit give or take, truck handled it fine enough, but I was always a bit concerned traveling at 100% capacity. Traded for a dually, travel is much smoother and stabile. As to driving down town, get used to parking a bit further away, it didn't change much going to a dual wheel truck, they are both full size 1 tons.

[JRTJH]

A few things to consider:

1. There is no truck built that is "good at everything".

2. Trying to "mild offroad" with a 1 ton 4x4 is like trying to hang pictures with a 10 pound sledge hammer.

3. Any truck you buy will be "tailored for a specific task". The Tremor is Ford's "version of an offroad compromise". It is sprung and shocked for offroading, not for towing a heavy trailer. It's great with a pop-up or a bass boat or a couple of jet skis, but not so much with a 30' conventional travel trailer or a 35' fifth wheel....

You can find a truck that will tow a fifth wheel with 600 pounds of cargo in the truck and the rest in the trailer, but you won't be happy with that truck if you try to "fit it between the trees on a 2-track while heading to your favorite deer hunting spot.....

Determine what's the most important task you expect the truck to do for you, build it for that and compromise on the rest. If offroading is the important part, buy a small trailer. If RVing is important to you, buy the right truck for that job and realize that you simply can't get those "big wide mirrors (as wide as dually hips) through the trees and with the light rear end, you ain't gonna be climbing a muddy logging road after an afternoon thunderstorm.....

[travelin texans]

I have no experience with the Ford Tremor, but looking at it they are built for specific purpose but I don't think towing was it. The height of the bed rails appear to be rather high which could be an issue with a 5th wheel. A standard 4x4 F350 without all the off road specific features of the Tremor would probably be a better choice.
For lots of cab room I'd go for the Ram Mega Cab. If I were buying a new truck tomorrow my 1st choice would be the Mega Cab 3500 diesel dually with the short box.
Any of the big 3 trucks will be a good choice, a diesel dually if towing a large 5th wheel would be necessary.
You get a big ATTABOY for crunching numbers beforehand. As already mentioned DO NOT use brochure or online numbers to make your decision. Use the numbers from a specific truck door jamb numbers & the manufacturer tag in a specific rv.
Also DO NOT believe any of the towing advice from all the knuckleheads on FB. If you need honest answers about weights & how to calculate them post the numbers here, there are several that can help with them.

[grakka]

I appreciate all the advice - to clarify the numbers I'm using above are from posted yellow stickers I found on difference truck forums - to be safe I'm using the lower numbers I found vs the higher ones.

For the pin weights I'm just finding what 23% of the a number to figure out what my theoretical max would be - this is putting into account the 600 lbs payload of me, the wife, and the hitch. Do those number seem to add up?

Trying to figure how to estimate weights - if I look at brochures and see a listed GVWR I can use 23% of that right? But if they only show shipping weight and cargo capacity - should I add those together then take 23% of that or do I need to add the tank weight as well?

Also, I know this is a keystone forum - but what brands should I be looking at for well made construction?

[Ken / Claudia]

If it were me, without looking at numbers, just what I might want. Get a dually 350 or 450 so your not limited in the trailer so the nicer and larger 5ers will work out and the have room to allow 2 work stations besides all of your personal gear. After the truck and trailer get worked out and used for awhile get a used SUV that will get you into the back country and store parking lot. The big truck would be for moving the trailer.
Trying to get a truck to do all you are asking is not going to happen. If money is no concern, a full size comm truck (tractor) with long frame rails and mount the SUV on it between the trailer and cab.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by grakka

I appreciate all the advice - to clarify the numbers I'm using above are from posted yellow stickers I found on difference truck forums - to be safe I'm using the lower numbers I found vs the higher ones.

For the pin weights I'm just finding what 23% of the a number to figure out what my theoretical max would be - this is putting into account the 600 lbs payload of me, the wife, and the hitch. Do those number seem to add up?

Trying to figure how to estimate weights - if I look at brochures and see a listed GVWR I can use 23% of that right? But if they only show shipping weight and cargo capacity - should I add those together then take 23% of that or do I need to add the tank weight as well?

Also, I know this is a keystone forum - but what brands should I be looking at for well made construction?

Yes add those numbers to get the gross RV weight times 23% will give you a good pin weight to calculate from. If looking at TTs use 13% for a tongue weight. Then subtract that weight from the payload if a given truck.
Either of the 3500 brands will also be capable of getting the job done.

[sourdough]

Some givens;

Off roading and towing are like comparing apples and oranges - you can't mix the two. DRW trucks are not seen offroading anywhere I've ever been for good reason. A Tremor is built to do things that are not compatible with towing.

You want a truck that will do anything that you throw at it from little to big; that won't happen. Trucks are compromises and certain models, and certain options, are meant to equip the truck to accomplish a specific task.

From a towing perspective if you want it to handle anything you throw at it a tractor (semi) would be a good choice but impractical IMO. After that you have entered the "compromise" world.

How much and what kind of offroading do you envision? I've done a lot of offroading and can tell you for sure a full size one ton truck has no business in lots of places and can ruin your day in the right circumstances. If getting in the boondocks is important to you you need to do as I did and separate towing and playing off road - they are two very different things. If you're getting a toy hauler get a side by side.

Since we're now in the "compromise" world, what and where do you want to compromise? Large toy hauler means DRW truck. Is that an option or not? If not you will be in the same boat I am and the truck will dictate the trailer and definitely won't "take anything you can throw at it". Compromise.

As far as trucks the big 3 all make good HD trucks. I like the Ram HD trucks for the Cummins, interiors and ride. Lots of Ford fans here so they can talk to that. Do your homework on the trucks and get what fits you and your situation.

Post any further questions and someone will be glad to help. It's good that you are trying to figure this out beforehand rather than waiting until it's too late.

[flybouy]

Asking tor a truck to do all tuose things is like going to a shoe store and asking for one pair of shoes that you can use to jog 5 miles a day, use for fishing in streams over your knee, use gor hunting in -15° 10" deep snow AND wear to church. All vehichles are purpose built, buy the one built for the specific purpose for the best outcome. JMHO

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Ken / Claudia

If it were me, without looking at numbers, just what I might want. Get a dually 350 or 450 so your not limited in the trailer so the nicer and larger 5ers will work out and the have room to allow 2 work stations besides all of your personal gear. After the truck and trailer get worked out and used for awhile get a used SUV that will get you into the back country and store parking lot. The big truck would be for moving the trailer.
Trying to get a truck to do all you are asking is not going to happen. If money is no concern, a full size comm truck (tractor) with long frame rails and mount the SUV on it between the trailer and cab.

I have to agree with Ken, even with newer 350/3500’s and a large 5er you will find once the TV is loaded and ready to tow your 5er choices will be limited.
We daily drive a Ram 3500 DRW crew cab and love it, not many places we will not drive it.

[grakka]

I've learned a lot and appreciate all the help. I fell prey to all the marketing from truck manufacturers and RV manufactures with pin weights. I have a pretty good idea of what each is capable of.

My wife and I aren't ready to go dually because we've never seriously camped on our own. IF we don't love the lifestyle and are prepared to spend months out at a time we won't need the dually. We are likely 4-5 years out in our retirement planning before we would be in an RV for months at a time. We figure we will start smaller with weekend and week long tips.

This is our plan:

1. Plan to buy a dually if we love the lifestyle and start thinking about a toy hauler 5th wheel to convert to an office if we want to spend months outside.
2. Start looking at lighter 5th wheels (without a garage) - determine what floor plan we think we would want for a week.
3. If under 11,000lbs GWVR, consider the Tremor (3200 paylod, 600 for cargo, 2600 for pin weight), else with a SRW 3500 or F350 long bed (~3900 payload, plan for 3200 pin weight) we can go a bit higher in weight likely a 15,000 GWVR

For towing with the Tremor I'm looking at something like one of the smaller Cougars that come in at 10-11k GWVR. We plan to view some in person

We are both fine with taking the depreciation hit on the truck and the trailer if we love the lifestyle enough to upgrade to something much larger.

Does this seem sane to y'all?

[Ken / Claudia]

Yea, you realized switching out RV and TV's in a year or two normally you will take a hit. That's important, few come on here happy when need or want a bigger RV after a season and now a bigger truck too.

I was looking at the Cougar half ton line 5ers not long ago. Cannot remember the models, but they have 2 or 3 that are in the 26 -30 foot range really designed for a couple. I started to go that route, I like my half ton model for fit for us 2 and the build quality not only looks nice, not any big problems in 8 years of ownership.
But for our future, a bumper pull RV with off grid stuff built as a priority and a side by side carried in the truck bed works out better. So, ruled those 5ers out. I can double tow rvs in this state just don't want too.
Good Luck and enjoy getting out there in a RV.

[sourdough]

You're cutting it too close on your weight estimations. Starting from scratch it does not make sense to then max out the truck and put yourself either in harms way or on the path to yet another truck. I have a 4k payload and my pin is 28xx lbs. I wouldn't go higher because I like to take what I want and think a safety cushion is a requirement. Your numbers are trying to max out the truck and that is a recipe for disappointment if not disaster.

The Tremor is NOT a tow vehicle. It's payload isn't low because it's got a big body etc., it's because of the way it is built, ie; suspension. What makes it better off road - lift, larger off road tires etc. are the things that make it a poor tow vehicle.

As I said in my first post, the truck will dictate the trailer. With that proposed 3900 payload a 15k trailer is not in the picture....safely. I mentioned my pin/payload. If I get much higher I will be in either a 450 or dually.

My recommendation is to forget the "big" truck and RV as your first shot to see if you like RVing because you are completely hamstringing yourself. If you like RVing after you try it get a truck meant for towing and an RV to fit your preferred type of camping. If you don't like RVing get the Tremor....for what I don't know since it wouldn't make it where we go (unscathed) .

[BauerAP]

Originally Posted by grakka

We are both fine with taking the depreciation hit on the truck and the trailer if we love the lifestyle enough to upgrade to something much larger.

Does this seem sane to y'all?

This is the other point regardless of weights I was going to make. We bought our second trailer and did carry some negative equity over but we initially financed the hitch and a little extra for the first.
If I could do it again, I would buy the second 5er first and the second truck first. Well, third truck now.
There are some that can afford to pay cash for a $80k Denali/platinum and the like Montana and there are some that can afford the 6 year old XL 1500 and used passport. Neither of which is my business.
If you don’t need a 1 ton off road vehicle and decide to sell you will take a hit. If you don’t need a DRW and decide to sell same story.
Personally, if I could avoid any negative equity or taking a few plus thousand dollar loss I’m all for it.
It sounds like you have time to make a decision. Drive them all and drive them back to back.
I think as far as brands(I assume you meant campers not trucks) they all have their ups and downs. A lot of the components are identical but construction does vary from one to another. Jayco makes a nice unit. I have also liked Grand Design but a friend just bought a Momentum and had lots of build quality issues within the first month.
All will have some kind of issue so find a floor plan you like and then shop for a dealer you like as well.

[grakka]

Originally Posted by sourdough

You're cutting it too close on your weight estimations. Starting from scratch it does not make sense to then max out the truck and put yourself either in harms way or on the path to yet another truck. I have a 4k payload and my pin is 28xx lbs. I wouldn't go higher because I like to take what I want and think a safety cushion is a requirement. Your numbers are trying to max out the truck and that is a recipe for disappointment if not disaster.

Its not that I'm trying to max it out - I'm trying to understand what my (safe) upper limits are going to be and use that to make a decision between short and long bed. I'm asking here because I don't know better and I know I can't trust sales folks (unless recommended).

It is good to know that those estimates are too aggressive, given that 2600 pin weight would max the short bed and 3300 would max the long bed, what would you recommend as a safe max total GWVR on the 5th wheel? I was thinking if 11.5klbs was the max with a 2600 pin weight, it would probably be smart to consider 10.5k the max reasonable estimate. Similar 14.5k for the 3300 pin weight and consider 13.5k as the max reasonable limit.

I'm also using the lowest values I've found on stickers posted online (and using the VIN tool for Rams)

My idea is to try it out RVing with a vehicle I would like to live with even if we don't care for RVing- that is why the Tremor is so appealing to me. If it turns out we love RVing - I know I'm going to need to go to a new truck.

The long bed is something we would get if after looking at 10k or less GWVR 5th wheels we don't think they would work. We would only creep between 10 and 10.5k if we absolutely loved it - and would probably end up going long bed.

Originally Posted by sourdough

The Tremor is NOT a tow vehicle. It's payload isn't low because it's got a big body etc., it's because of the way it is built, ie; suspension. What makes it better off road - lift, larger off road tires etc. are the things that make it a poor tow vehicle.

As I said in my first post, the truck will dictate the trailer. With that proposed 3900 payload a 15k trailer is not in the picture....safely. I mentioned my pin/payload. If I get much higher I will be in either a 450 or dually.

My recommendation is to forget the "big" truck and RV as your first shot to see if you like RVing because you are completely hamstringing yourself. If you like RVing after you try it get a truck meant for towing and an RV to fit your preferred type of camping. If you don't like RVing get the Tremor....for what I don't know since it wouldn't make it where we go (unscathed) .

Not trying to be argumentative, trying to understand. I thought the low payload on the Tremor was because of the short bed more than anything else. When I looked at another F350 6'7" foot bed in the same trim level on the lot (without the Tremor package) it was very similar. From what I can tell short vs long bed really dictates payload. Similar in Rams I saw some of 6'4" beds with 3300-3400 payload capacity. My thought process was if we go short bed we need to work within that limit. The Tremor just happens to be my favorite of the short beds. The RAM 3500 short bed I saw was 3400lb payload (the long bed was 4100). If the Tremor is the cause of worse towing performance I'll drop it - it was more about my favorite short bed configuration (assuming towing was the same)

What do you mean by forget the "big" truck - aren't all of these pretty large trucks? I don't own a truck now, so I need to get something to tow an RV and going half-ton for a smaller truck seems like a huge limiting factor.

Appreciate all the help.

[grakka]

Originally Posted by BauerAP

...
If I could do it again, I would buy the second 5er first and the second truck first. Well, third truck now.
...
If you don’t need a 1 ton off road vehicle and decide to sell you will take a hit. If you don’t need a DRW and decide to sell same story.
Personally, if I could avoid any negative equity or taking a few plus thousand dollar loss I’m all for it.
It sounds like you have time to make a decision. Drive them all and drive them back to back.

I really wish I knew the answer to this - I know if we don't love RVing we will regret the dually and sell it.

What I don't know if if we are week or weekend warriors and are fine RVing with a SRW 1-ton - but I do know I could use a 1 ton as my daily driver for a long time and be happy with that.

I spent most of this weekend driving the trucks - I like both the Ford and Rams the most for different reasons (prefer the driving in the Ford, prefer the looks and interior in the Ram). I brought the dually into areas I drive daily and I was def. nervous with it and it was a tight squeeze. The SRW short and long all felt great.

The reason the Tremor comes up so much is it was my favorite if I add up all the things together, but I would easily be happy in a 3500 or F350 long bed as well

[Vet4jdc]

You wrote this:

"My wife and I need to buy a truck and we want to buy a truck that will handle everything we can throw at it and last for 10-15 years. Towing, mild offroading, overlanding, etc."

Then do this:

Buy a 350 or 3500 Dually. (my opinion)

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by grakka

Its not that I'm trying to max it out - I'm trying to understand what my (safe) upper limits are going to be and use that to make a decision between short and long bed. I'm asking here because I don't know better and I know I can't trust sales folks (unless recommended).

It is good to know that those estimates are too aggressive, given that 2600 pin weight would max the short bed and 3300 would max the long bed, what would you recommend as a safe max total GWVR on the 5th wheel? I was thinking if 11.5klbs was the max with a 2600 pin weight, it would probably be smart to consider 10.5k the max reasonable estimate. Similar 14.5k for the 3300 pin weight and consider 13.5k as the max reasonable limit.

I'm also using the lowest values I've found on stickers posted online (and using the VIN tool for Rams)

My idea is to try it out RVing with a vehicle I would like to live with even if we don't care for RVing- that is why the Tremor is so appealing to me. If it turns out we love RVing - I know I'm going to need to go to a new truck.

The long bed is something we would get if after looking at 10k or less GWVR 5th wheels we don't think they would work. We would only creep between 10 and 10.5k if we absolutely loved it - and would probably end up going long bed.



Not trying to be argumentative, trying to understand. I thought the low payload on the Tremor was because of the short bed more than anything else. When I looked at another F350 6'7" foot bed in the same trim level on the lot (without the Tremor package) it was very similar. From what I can tell short vs long bed really dictates payload. Similar in Rams I saw some of 6'4" beds with 3300-3400 payload capacity. My thought process was if we go short bed we need to work within that limit. The Tremor just happens to be my favorite of the short beds. The RAM 3500 short bed I saw was 3400lb payload (the long bed was 4100). If the Tremor is the cause of worse towing performance I'll drop it - it was more about my favorite short bed configuration (assuming towing was the same)

What do you mean by forget the "big" truck - aren't all of these pretty large trucks? I don't own a truck now, so I need to get something to tow an RV and going half-ton for a smaller truck seems like a huge limiting factor.

Appreciate all the help.

First, on the Tremor my comments are based on what I know, have seen and experienced in a Raptor. The Tremor package from everything I've read is similar to the Raptor but you don't get the high output engines (7.3 or 6.7). It is lifted, has 35" off road tires, "softened" suspension for off road, re valved shocks for off road, "the rear sway bar is tuned for a softer suspension so passengers experience less turbulence when traveling over rough terrain" etc. All of that is to make it work better off road....not towing.

As far as the lower payload, between the softer suspension and added weight of all the foo fahs added to make it look "off road worthy" (including rocker panel rock guards) it would be accounted for. The short bed will also affect it but this model has a lot of useless "adds" for towing.

In your picture you're trying to determine a truck that would work if you decided NOT to have an RV and said that you would be happy with a regular 1 ton.....that's where I would go. Get a nice 1 ton equipped like you like it (without off road considerations), get the payload and pick a trailer to fit it.
A SRW will pull a fair sized trailer but if you put a diesel in it that payload will drop if you haven't been figuring that. My payload of 4k is with a gas engine. Put a diesel in my truck and make my payload about 32-3400 lbs.

You need to look at RVs as hard as you are trucks. There are many, many models and many, many options from many, many manufacturers. Just picking a gvw, figuring what a truck will haul and then picking that trailer will not work. Like the truck you have to do your due diligence in picking out the trailer that is going to work with your truck. It can and will take a lot of time and research to come up with the combo that works for you.

[travelin texans]

If you're dead set on the Tremor then concentrate your rv search on TTs rather than 5th wheels. The payload will be less affected, the high bed sides of the off road truck won't be an issue & likely cost less.
Once you retire or travel more then get the dually & what ever 5er you want.
By that time you'll have a better idea of what you want in both a truck & RV plus know if you'll even want to continue that lifestyle.

[linux3]

Before Covid and trucks became unavailable and RV's are being built with no regard for quality we were talking about buying a 1/2 ton towable and a Chevy 2500HD.
General numbers for 5th wheel towing is around 17500 lbs and 3500 lb carry. Plenty of ratings to spare.

Not trying to talk you into anything but a 2500 / 250 is cheaper and will ride better and a small 5th wheel will be more maneuverable.

Just suggesting other options in your quest.