Hydraulic lift and slide system

[Sujim]

We just arrived at our campsite on our maiden voyage of our new rig. It is a 2020 Alpine 3651RL. I raised the rig off of my truck and and was using the auto level. I had wood 2x4 blocks under the jacks. The front jacks retracted all the way down so that the front end of the rig is way low. I raised it back up, attached it back to my truck and removed the blocks. I unhitched from the truck again and tried to auto level again. It did the same thing, but the pump kept going like it wanted to retract more. Then it quit and the jacks will not raise or lower at all. I even recalibrated it but that didn’t help. So here we are in our rig on our maiden trip with it and it is stuck in the lowest retract position and the slide will not come out either. We had it on shore power too. There is power to the hydraulics from the control panel. I called Good Sams and the had a tech call me and we worked through several steps to find the problem. He said there may be a fuse blown but I couldn’t find it. Any advice on what is the problem? I am supposed to call Keystone tomorrow and talk to them and call Lippert after that if I need to. It is Lippert hydraulics. Any hep Weill be sincerely appreciated. Thank you.

[Sujim]

We just arrived at our campsite on our maiden voyage of our new rig. It is a 2020 Keystone Alpine 3651RL. I raised the rig off of my truck and and was using the auto level. I had wood 2x4 blocks under the jacks. The front jacks retracted all the way down so that the front end of the rig is way low. I raised it back up, attached it back to my truck and removed the blocks. I unhitched from the truck again and tried to auto level again. It did the same thing, but the pump kept going like it wanted to retract more. Then it quit and the jacks will not raise or lower at all. I even recalibrated it but that didn’t help. So here we are in our rig on our maiden trip with it and it is stuck in the lowest retract position and the The two hydraulic slides will not come out either. We had it Hooked on shore power too. There is power to the hydraulics from the control panel. I called Good Sams and the had a tech call me and we worked through several steps to find the problem. He said there may be a fuse blown but I couldn’t find the fuse. Any advice on what is the problem? I am supposed to call Keystone tomorrow and talk to them and call Lippert after that if I need to. It is Lippert hydraulics. Any help wiil be sincerely appreciated. Thank you.

[notanlines]

Completely ignore any advice to call Keystone. Better you should call your congressman.
Start by an early morning call to Lippert and ask to talk to a tech. Explain your problem to the operator and she WILL find a tech for you. I have called them twice over the years and been wholly successful both times.
This will get you where you need to go. https://support.lci1.com/

[notanlines]

I also believe this may be what happened: You arrived at your site, unhitched, hit autolevel and the front end dipped to the ground. I suspect you had not hooked to shore power yet and your batteries weren't 100%. When you manually raised it again and then tried the whole procedure again the battery was low and because the draw of the autolevel is so high it blew a fuse.
No, I am not certain, of course, but in the future remember these things: Autolevel almost always starts by dipping the front to the bottom and raises from there. Autolevel requires a full battery or shore power connected AND a pretty good charge.

[xrated]

Originally Posted by notanlines

I also believe this may be what happened: You arrived at your site, unhitched, hit autolevel and the front end dipped to the ground. I suspect you had not hooked to shore power yet and your batteries weren't 100%. When you manually raised it again and then tried the whole procedure again the battery was low and because the draw of the autolevel is so high it blew a fuse.
No, I am not certain, of course, but in the future remember these things: Autolevel almost always starts by dipping the front to the bottom and raises from there. Autolevel requires a full battery or shore power connected AND a pretty good charge.

I have the six point hydraulic auto level on my trailer (non Keystone, but made by Lippert), and there are always a couple of things to remember. In order to use auto level, the trailer must be ABOVE level when you push the auto level button. If it is below level, the system will fault and you will have to clear the fault before continuing. Once the fault has been cleared, raise the trailer with the front landing gear and make sure it is above level when you stop it. Auto level function should then operate correctly.

And just for reference, when doing what I just described, my trailer NEVER dips all the way down. It will usually dip to maybe a couple of inches below level when the auto level is pushed, then it starts it's auto level process....but I've never experienced it dipping almost all the way down.

And what Jim said about needing a full battery and or shore power and a pretty well charged battery is spot on. The Lippert system will almost always fail when the battery voltage gets close to the 12V threshold. I always try to have the trailer plugged into shore power when operating the auto level, but I have used it without shore power a few times. I do have a 2 battery setup on mine though...two 6V golf cart deep cycle Trojan T105s and they will allow for doing it without shore power, but you can hear the pump run and it is somewhat slower when operating. The landing gear operation with the pump running on mine pulls about 68 amps when raising the trailer and right at 70 amps when lowering the trailer, so a good battery(s) are certainly necessary and it is best to be plugged into shore power also.....Jim nailed it.

[chuckster57]

The only feature disabled by starting auto level nose down is “hitch height” as far as I know. Level up does lower the front a bit if it starts nose high. I have initiated auto level nose down and have never gotten an error message.

[ChuckS]

You should be able to operate in manual mode and raise and level your Alpine.. most likely the remote rear sensor is not working properly ... if it doesn’t then when auto level pressed The front will drive all the way down to the ground and not raise back up

This is because during the initial downward motion the system is looking for a nose negative position .. If the front controller module doesn’t receive a signal from rear remote sensor to indicate a negative value system will continue lowering hose till 8t bottoms out..

You can also manually override the level up System with a cordless drill, 1/4 inc( Allen bit, and 1/8 inch Allen wrench and manually level

[xrated]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

The only feature disabled by starting auto level nose down is “hitch height” as far as I know. Level up does lower the front a bit if it starts nose high. I have initiated auto level nose down and have never gotten an error message.

Interesting Chuck. I've gotten that error twice since I've owned the trailer. The first time was on the day I bought the trailer and went directly to a campground. I cleared the error, raised the trailer above level then tried again and it worked flawlessly. The second time was pretty early on in my owner's experience and it happened again. I've just got in the habit now of disconnecting from the truck, pulling the truck out of the way, raising the trailer to where I know it's above level, then doing the auto level thing....and it's never failed when doing that. I wonder why mine would error and your experience is different?

[ChuckS]

The Lippert manual is available just about anywhere for the level up system or feel free to review this doc I created some time back on the level up system and how to manually override

I own a 2014 Alpine and have a good understanding of the level,up system and hyd slide out system should you have further questions.

[ChuckS]

As since you indicate slide outs won’t open ... assuming you some how have leveled the unit your model Alpine May have both electric and hyd slide outs. There is a resettable DC breaker in battery compartment that provides DC power to hyd pump motor for slide out and level up to work. If it has failed you will have no power to hyd slides. But the electric slide has its own controller and separate power branch so it would work.

You have In command on your new Alpine so you could have issues with the system ...

You’ve simply got to take the time to get the manual for the In Command system and the Lippert six point hyd level up system and read these and educate yourself on how they function.

This will go a long way toward uneventful problems down the road

[MarkEHansen]

I have the ground control 3.0 system (so, not the 6-point system), but I've never had to raise the nose of the trailer to make auto level work. In fact, it has a hitch height feature that wouldn't work if you manually raised/lowered the nose of the trailer before auto leveling it.

xrated: You report that you had two cases where you had this error. Is it possible that your trailer nose being low in both cases was just a coincidence?

[Sujim]

It happened at the same time. Our sales person came out today and between him and a service tech at the dealer it was determined the solenoid is out and he is going to replace it tomorrow. I will let everyone know how things come out.

[ChuckS]

If the dual polarity solenoid Is bad ... which I doubt that should have taken the dealer 2 minutes to troubleshoot and 10 minutes to replace...

I’d be more suspect of an issues with the self resetting 50 amp breaker in the 12 vdc line feeding directly fr9m battery to the solenoid or a loose connection in that line.

The system is very simply to TS

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by xrated

Interesting Chuck. I've gotten that error twice since I've owned the trailer. The first time was on the day I bought the trailer and went directly to a campground. I cleared the error, raised the trailer above level then tried again and it worked flawlessly. The second time was pretty early on in my owner's experience and it happened again. I've just got in the habit now of disconnecting from the truck, pulling the truck out of the way, raising the trailer to where I know it's above level, then doing the auto level thing....and it's never failed when doing that. I wonder why mine would error and your experience is different?

I worked for 5+ yrs for a Grand Designs dealer so I had lots of exposure to the GC 3.0 both 4 point and 6 point and the level up.

Level up dips the front and then autolevels the trailer. I’ve never had it fully retract the landing gear before leveling. You may have a software glitch.

[Sujim]

Well, he brought out a new solenoid and it still didn’t work! Now they have determined the pump is out and they are trying to find a new one. We are still waiting. More info to come!

[Sujim]

The problem is they are not sending out a tech. Only our sales rep is coming out and he is in contact with someone at the shop.

[Sujim]

Okay! We are now working! The hydraulic pump burned up. A new pump could not be found in the state, so a pump and solenoid was taken out of a new one that just arrived at the dealer. It was just like ours. The tech came out and installed it. He raised the hitch end up to level then started the auto level and it did the same thing to him that it did to me, but he stopped it before it burned up. He determined the auto level is not working in the command center. So we leveled it manually and the slide came out perfectly. When we get back home I am going to drop it off for repair. He said it could have been caused by any number of thing, but probably not my fault. Thanks for your help guys! The wifey is all smiles now. I will post any new info when the problem is diagnoses and resolved.

[ChuckS]

I’ll again say that you’ve most likely got a BAD remote rear sensor on your six point hyd level up system..

If the controller..located in front FWD compartment can’t detect a negative value change as the nose starts to lower it WILL continue to retract front LG legs completely while it looks for a negative value.

The front control module works in conjunction with rear remote sensor to determine F to B level indication..

Good luck with your repairs

[cenders]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

The only feature disabled by starting auto level nose down is “hitch height” as far as I know. Level up does lower the front a bit if it starts nose high. I have initiated auto level nose down and have never gotten an error message.

Same here. I never check my level before pressing auto level and it works flawlessly every time. Sometimes it will drop the trailer down a bit, and I have seen other times where it lowers the trailer almost completely. Never errors.

I never use the return to hitch height function.

[Spooled-up]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

I’ll again say that you’ve most likely got a BAD remote rear sensor on your six point hyd level up system..

If the controller..located in front FWD compartment can’t detect a negative value change as the nose starts to lower it WILL continue to retract front LG legs completely while it looks for a negative value.

The front control module works in conjunction with rear remote sensor to determine F to B level indication..

Good luck with your repairs

Where is this sensor located? Is it on a hydraulic gear leg? I'm also having trouble with my auto level. Pump is operating, but sounds like it is laboring when in auto level. I start with the nose up and when trying to auto level, it lowers the nose all the way down and then I get the labored operation of the pump. I have fully charged batteries and am on shore power. I'm in sporadic contact with Lippert via email since we're not on a trip.

I can manually level the coach, although level seems to be hard to find using the values on the control pad.

-Dave