Covered/heated fresh water tank?

[philhyde]

The 2006 Zeppelin 242 we are looking at seems to come with an option (standard?) that the owner describes as covered and heated fresh water tank. He claims the area is heated from the propane heater. Is this correct? Does anyone know how effective this is in cold temps?

thanks,
Phil

[Festus2]

I believe the "cover" that he is referring to is the black, 1/4" coroplast (a type of corrugated plastic) that is fastened to the underbelly of many Keystone RV's. The "heat" that he speaks of is most likely the heat that is produced by the RV furnace when it is running.
Keystone describes many of its units as having "Arctic Packages", "Polar Packages" and other gimmicky ads which give one the impression that they are able to function in sub-zero temperatures. My Cougar, for example, has the "Polar Package".
If you were to look at my 3 tanks (gray, black and fresh), they are all enclosed by this black Coroplast --- as is everything else in the underbelly. In this enclosure is a huge airspace with numerous gaps and other small openings which will allow cold air to penetrate.
My tanks are not individually wrapped or encased with any kind of insulating material - foam or otherwise nor are they heated.
In our unit which is "Polarized", I would never take it out for an extended period of time in sub-zero temps. I would have to find some other way of ensuring that the fresh water and other tanks were supplied with enough heat to keep them from freezing.
A few members here have done modifications to their units to prevent this from happening. Geo is one such member who has.
I am not sure about what this Zep has in the way of insulated and heated tanks but I would certainly look a bit further into the previous owner's claim about the tanks.
Covered? Technically, I supposed you could say that they are "covered". "Heated" ...mmmmmmm.?????
It also depends upon what kind of temperatures you are considering.... "cold" is pretty relative. Cold in California or Florida isn't cold in North Dakota or Alaska.

[philhyde]

I did see the corrugated plastic covering, but did not bother confirming the heat plumbing.

It's not a selling point for us. I'm just curious if it would be effective in temps near freezing. Like 20's, 30's. I recognize there are probably dozens of other extended discussions about winter camping (haven't searched).

TIA!

[JRTJH]

I am in the process of adding 1" of pink foam (R 5) and a coroplast covering to the bottom of my trailer. The Springdale prior to 2012 had the tanks exposed except for the water tank which had a coroplast bottom covering and that compartment has a small vent from the floor heat duct.

Hopefully, when I'm done, I'll have an additional R 7 under the tanks. That coupled with the R 7 that Keystone initially has above the tanks should give me a much warmer floor. As for cold weather camping, we live in northern Michigan, so cold weather camping is still out for us. It doesn't get "cold" here till it's below 0 F, and no amount of insulation under the trailer will be able to cope with the R 9 walls and R 9 ceiling..... Besides, that great big back window makes that kind of cold weather camping out of the question with only 30,000 btu's.

I'd think you will face much the same problems in really cold weather. There's a LOT more than heated tanks required to camp overnight on battery power below freezing.

[The Sod Father]

Originally Posted by Festus2

It also depends upon what kind of temperatures you are considering.... "cold" is pretty relative. Cold in California or Florida isn't cold in North Dakota or Alaska.

Cold in Florida is Summer in North Dakota.

You can camp in "cold" weather with an enclosed underbelly just as long as you have enough ambient temp to prevent freezing. If daytime temps go above freezing and your trailer is sufficiently heated, then you should be OK. If cold weather campering is going to be a regular thing, you may want to look into heating "pads" for each tank as well as heat tape the dump valves and any plumbing that runs under the floor.

[philhyde]

"Cold" in this case is Texas to Alberta, Canada in 2 weeks, and then back in early Nov.

[bgilly]

I just sold my Zeppelin 242 after nearly 6 years of ownership. I knew that unit inside and out. It is heated by a small 2 inch duct from the propane furnace so as Festus stated, it is only heating the bottom enclosure when the furnace is on.
It is a gimick in name play because it certainly won't hold up in "polar" conditions that you and I think of. I did camp for a week in mid 20's condition and though freezing of my tanks was not my worry (it would take several days for fresh water to freeze and the wasted tanks get enough warm waste water to dismiss any threat of freezing there), but what did happen was the inside of the camper condensated. The windows were a small problem with condensation but the top 6 inches of all the walls condensated from the rising heat of the furnace (we didn't run it that hot) and from us humidifying the air, it would condense at the top of the walls. I had to keep wiping down the walls, even in the cabinets. The Zeppelin stayed pretty warm but I just could not de-humidify.
All the water lines are run in occupied space of the camper, not in the bottom enclosure outside.

Good luck with your Zepp. We loved ours.

Bobby

[philhyde]

Thanks for the note of encouragement!

Is there any practical solution to de-humidify? Our camping conditions should vary, with us not being in the same place for more than one night.

[Festus2]

You might want to look into buying a small dehumidifier and make sure that you have a good circulation of air within your unit. Perhaps using the A/C on the FAN only setting is worth trying or in lieu of that, a regular fan. Using your propane stove will also contribute to high humidity so when you are cooking, try to make sure that you do have a supply of fresh air, the dehumidifier and a fan working. There are crystals (Dri ???) that you can buy and place in a container that will absorb moisture from the air.

[bgilly]

As many pointed out about how to de-humidify (including other parts of this forum), there is a bit of confusion as to what "causes" humidity. Humidity is simply the amount grains of moisture in the air. The amount of grains of moisture in the air change based on the air temperature. Air temperature doesn't cause humidity but rather changes the dew point - the point at which humidity in the air condenses.
Air conditioners and de-humidifiers work by changing the air temperature. De-humidifiers work a little different in that they reheat the air so the air temperature from a de-humidifier doesn't drop much.

I was dry camping on that trip when we experienced the low temps. so I couldn't run the de-humidifier of my A/C, plus the fact you are not supposed to run the A/C compressor below 50 degrees.

The Dri crystals are fine for a stored camper but won't control humidity in an occupied camper since we are natural humidifiers.

De-humidifiers are great devices when you don't need cooler temps. in the camper, but it is another appliance to lug around and create load on a typical 30 amp rated camper power supply.

Now that is my explanation with going into psychrometric charts.

Bobby

[chuck&gail]

Never been in below zero F with our Outback, but furnace keeps all of our tanks (fresh and waste) from freezing at least down to 15 degrees F or so. Haven't tried colder ... yet.