Wisdom and Advice on tire wear and replacement

sptddog · 09-08-2015, 09:03 AM

I've searched a lot on here yesterday and it seems I have one of a few problems...bent axle, bent spindle, bad suspension parts, or a crap tire. Pretty much covers all the options. Assuming it's one of those, my plan is this, but I'd like some weigh from those far more experienced than I.

It does go to the dealer tomorrow night - for the basic analysis before I either take it to a truck/trailer alignment place or let the dealer repair (suspension parts or axle replacement). I'm out of warranty under Keystone, and probably out of warranty on the axles too, though I do have an extended warranty, and I don't know what that will cover.

Brief history - when we left NC at the end of July for the long haul home (PA), I checked inside and out of the tires and nothing showed visible wear patterns. I hauled the week after to a local campground, but I got in a pickle with directions and had to make smaller than desired turn around. I didn't think the turn was awful, but getting out of the lot I used, I had to go down the lip of the curb - not the highest part, but maybe 3-4 inches. I literally crawled down it as I knew I was going over it, so I can't imagine that could have done axle damage, but who knows. I do know that I've hit many a bridge joint that made me cringe, and any one of those could have beat it to hell. I know I'm not overloaded - never hauled toys, and I've weighed it more than once. I'm at least 2500+lbs less than my gross of 16, 000.

I was lucky, when I came home and parked yday, I put a board under this side, and notice this:
Looking from the back to front of camper

Looking between the wheels

So, rear drivers side tire heavily worn to the inside, and it had to be within the last 1000 miles or less - I'm guessing in the last 500 as I regularly glance at them and didn't see any signs of significant wear. Darn lucky it didn't blow - it's down to the steel belts (which are sticking out). I vaguely recall it running a bit hotter (maybe 5 degrees) than the other tires hauling it home yesterday. All three other tires appear to be wearing evenly, including the tire on the opposite axle from this worn one. I would have thought I'd see signs of wear on the front driver's side from dragging this rear one, or on the other rear side, particularly if the axle is bent (I'd expect both sides to reflect the bent axle?).

I intended to upgrade to the Mor-ryde or Dexter suspension components (wet bolts, hangers, bushings etc.). I think my dealer does mor-ryde (or that's what they advertise. Any benefit over one or the other? I assume that this is a good time to do that (of course, making sure the alignment issue is corrected as well)?

I also intend on new tires all the way around - was going to do that in the spring anyhow, as I've gotten a lot of miles on these compared to other forum members. I bought it used at a year old, and I put at least 12-15, 000 miles on it in the last two years. They've been solid tires for china bombs, but I don't haul toys nor haul much over 65mph. I'm looking at Maxxis, Sailuns, or Carlisles. I do want to go to a bit better quality F or G rated, and would be more comfortable with a 75mph (since the 65 isn't for sustained speeds at a heavy weight). I do worry about g rated tires on the camper and the rough ride - I have 19.5's and G's on the truck, and it's absolutely a rougher ride. I have to check the rim when I pull it off and validate that it's one of the 110psi rated rims. What sways you to one tire or another (other than the obvious cost)?

Looking for some input on whether this all sounds like the right path forward, thoughts on the tire wear and your experiences, and guidance as to which suspension upgrade to do. I can figure out the tires based on all the discussions here I think....once I validate the rims.

Desert185 · 09-08-2015, 09:14 AM

I'm no trailer suspension expert, but I do have opinions.

Before suspecting a bent axle, I would install wet bolts and their bronze bushings, as I think alignment is affected to a degree with worn plastic bushings, bolts and shackles. BTW, Dexter made my Mor/ryde wetbolt kit.

After installing wetbolts and new Maxxis or Carlisle tires, only then would I have the axles checked for alignment. I've had one or two bad tires (chinabombs) on a car-hauler wearing like yours when the issue was the tire, not alignment.

FWIW...

shov · 09-08-2015, 10:38 AM

On my previous TT I had the exact same tire wear on the same wheel. Mine was indeed a bent axel. Which the axel shop was curious to see it was on the left side as most bend the axel on the right side hitting curbs and what not. I hadn't hit anything that I could remember. I had the axel straightened, put the spare tire on it, and never had another problem. Good luck finding a solution

bobbecky · 09-08-2015, 04:21 PM

Go with the G rated tires, you will not be sorry. The trailer will do just fine, the suspension is what will control the ride. The tires you currently have are rated 65 mph, never over that, more like keep them below 60 mph. It is possible that the tire in the photos was starting to come apart and was squirming, causing the one side to wear real bad. Besides all the suspension parts needing replacement/upgrading, another place to look at is the u-bolts holding the axles to the springs. Check your axle manual for the correct torque, but that has been a problem on these rigs that is often overlooked.

sptddog · 09-09-2015, 08:09 PM

So, today I took a closer look at things. I did a 'mostly' straight edge test and did find that the wheel in question is slightly off (seemed to toe in) - but only between a quarter to an eighth of an inch at most. I didn't find any indication of camber type tilt in the tire. I did find that when I got the tire off the ground and spun the wheel freely, you can definitely hear something dragging or humming. Sounded a lot like a roller skate bearing that is bad, so I am making a preliminary assumption that the wheel bearing is bad. That said the wheel did not wobble as some indicated it would if the bearing was bad. Seems to really have worn the tires down quickly for it, but if it's dragging it would make sense.

The spare is on and it's at the dealers. We'll let them take a look and then go from there as to the repair. I'm still surprised that bearing could do that much damage. It had to be recent and quick, as I've hauled way too many miles with it to not have seen the gradual wear pattern over time.

Harleyhop · 09-10-2015, 02:04 AM

My unit is at trailer repair facility for the exact same thing. Same tire wear on same tire. I was told the spindle was bent and they recommended a new axle Just an FYI my GS ESP warranty only paid $241.00 of the repair. I guess it's better than nothing??!! Good luck!

sptddog · 09-10-2015, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harleyhop

My unit is at trailer repair facility for the exact same thing. Same tire wear on same tire. I was told the spindle was bent and they recommended a new axle Just an FYI my GS ESP warranty only paid $241.00 of the repair. I guess it's better than nothing??!! Good luck!

Thanks for the info l inquire about the warranty work as well. Seems such a shame a lot actually have this problem. Did you consider upgrading to an 8000lb axle?

bobbecky · 09-10-2015, 02:38 PM

It is normal for these drum brakes to make a scraping sound when rotating the wheels. You have the brake shoes that will make this sound in addition to the magnet scraping the flat surface of the drum. These brakes should be inspected annually when the bearings should be inspected and packed. Looking at the top picture of the tire against the chock, it sure appears that the tire tread area is bulging, which would cause the wear issue you have. The last Marathon we had that was the trigger for us to replace them with G614's, was noticed when we stopped at a rest stop in Arizona a couple years ago. The tires were always maintained to 80 psi, and the speed never went over 65 mph, yet, this last one had ply separated over half the perimeter of the tread, bulging bad, and most of the tread was gone. This was the fifth tire we had fail due to these Marathons being too light for these larger rigs, and since putting on the G tires, have had no issues or failures. The other four tires had bulging on the tread and also the side walls over the course of our first year with our rig.

sptddog · 09-10-2015, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbecky

It is normal for these drum brakes to make a scraping sound when rotating the wheels. You have the brake shoes that will make this sound in addition to the magnet scraping the flat surface of the drum. These brakes should be inspected annually when the bearings should be inspected and packed. Looking at the top picture of the tire against the chock, it sure appears that the tire tread area is bulging, which would cause the wear issue you have. The last Marathon we had that was the trigger for us to replace them with G614's, was noticed when we stopped at a rest stop in Arizona a couple years ago. The tires were always maintained to 80 psi, and the speed never went over 65 mph, yet, this last one had ply separated over half the perimeter of the tread, bulging bad, and most of the tread was gone. This was the fifth tire we had fail due to these Marathons being too light for these larger rigs, and since putting on the G tires, have had no issues or failures. The other four tires had bulging on the tread and also the side walls over the course of our first year with our rig.

I hadn't really looked or noticed the bulge you see but after looking again, I see what you're saying. I'm not ruling out that it was the tire itself and nothing is wrong with the rest - certainly possible. A friend of ours helped me change the tire last night, and he's changed his before, and he seemed to think the sound wasn't right, but it could have been brakes rubbing - that did cross my mind.

Harleyhop · 09-10-2015, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sptddog

Thanks for the info l inquire about the warranty work as well. Seems such a shame a lot actually have this problem. Did you consider upgrading to an 8000lb axle?

I Inquired about that and they assured me that the 7000lb axle would be fine for my unit.

sptddog · 09-28-2015, 01:45 PM

So, bringing this up again....Dealer says they are pretty sure that the axle is bent and is inquiring if my extended warranty will cover it. Ok.

Dealer also mentioned what they found weird was that noise I heard (thought maybe it was a bad bearing) was the brake drum rubbing - that the brake drum appeared bent, and the brake shoe on that wheel was worn far more than the others. Thoughts on that? Could the bent axle/spindle cause the drum to bend? Could the drum bending be tied to whatever caused the axle to bend? Thanks for the insight!

jsmith948 · 09-29-2015, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sptddog

Dealer also mentioned what they found weird was that noise I heard (thought maybe it was a bad bearing) was the brake drum rubbing - that the brake drum appeared bent, and the brake shoe on that wheel was worn far more than the others. Thoughts on that? Could the bent axle/spindle cause the drum to bend? Could the drum bending be tied to whatever caused the axle to bend? Thanks for the insight!

You heard a noise that sounded like a bad bearing and the brake drum appears bent? I would check the bearing. If the bearing is loose (from wear or improper adjustment) the drum (and the attached wheel) would tilt in at the top and out at the bottom which would have your tire running down the road at a bias - hence the wear?

sptddog · 10-01-2015, 07:28 AM

Yeah - they indicated the bearing was fine, but the drum was 'out of round'. Warranty is paying for an entire new axle/set, so that will be solved, but it scares the crazy out of me that we've never even hauled a load and it's bent. I guess a good pothole/bridge joint will do it, but damn.

I asked about 8000lb axles and since I can't mismatch, it would cost me a fair amount to upgrade and do both axles, which I don't care to do right now.

bartbill · 10-01-2015, 11:33 AM

I'm of the same opinion regarding the nylon bushings. Had an alignment done twice - alignment was ok. This was on a 2012 5th wheel with less than 10k on it. Bought the Morride wet bolts. I was rather stunned when I drove out the nylon bushing at how worn out they were. No problem since. I dont believe for a minute that I'm the only one with this issue. I'd bet a dollar Keystone knows full well the problems associated with worn bushings and ruined tires..

Desert185 · 10-02-2015, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sptddog

Yeah - they indicated the bearing was fine, but the drum was 'out of round'. Warranty is paying for an entire new axle/set, so that will be solved, but it scares the crazy out of me that we've never even hauled a load and it's bent. I guess a good pothole/bridge joint will do it, but damn.

I asked about 8000lb axles and since I can't mismatch, it would cost me a fair amount to upgrade and do both axles, which I don't care to do right now.

Good time to do wetbolts with bronze bushings...

Add good tires, balanced, and metal stems = peace of mind.

sptddog · 10-02-2015, 07:45 AM

Definitely doing the wet bolts and mor-ryde suspension upgrade. Researching tire prices now - either Sailun or Maxxis. Dealer can get me Sailuns, but not until November, which kills the rest of my camping season, as right now I have no spare, so I won't haul it. Couldn't get Maxxis at all. They recommended Gladiator g rated, but I suspect they are average at best.

I'm still just wondering how the drum got out of round. Perhaps a bent spindle messes up other stuff. They said the bearings were fine. Also worried about doing it again, since I didn't do anything specific that should have bent it. Will the upgraded tires and suspension help in preventing a spindle bend in the future, or do they make no difference in that aspect?

Desert185 · 10-02-2015, 08:08 AM

I don't think tires and suspension upgrades will help the drums. What will help is torqueing the lugnuts to the proper value. Overtorqueing will tend to warp them over time (like brake rotors). That old-school, four-way lug wrench is a killer.

Take a look at Carlisle tires. You should be able to find Carlisles or Maxxis fairly easily if you're near a Discount Tire.

bsmith0404 · 10-02-2015, 01:40 PM

Was the brake drum bent or out of round? If the brake was hanging up, as indicated by the worn shoes, it would have generated a lot of heat which could have warped the drum out of round. Drums are cast so bending is not typical, warping is actually pretty common. Used to turn brake drums all the time that were warped out of round due to excessive heat.

sptddog · 10-04-2015, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

Was the brake drum bent or out of round? If the brake was hanging up, as indicated by the worn shoes, it would have generated a lot of heat which could have warped the drum out of round. Drums are cast so bending is not typical, warping is actually pretty common. Used to turn brake drums all the time that were warped out of round due to excessive heat.

The dealer said out of round - and the brake shoe was far more worn than the others, so I'd presume you may be correct - it was probably dragging and warped it. I know it's common in cars - had an SUV that would warp all the darn time. I guess it won't matter much as the drum will be replaced and all adjusted correctly, so crossing my fingers that fixes things.

Thanks!

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