Lippert Level Up Issue - LG Wont Retract

[JBone]

Welp. Another update.

I did the internal bypass test when you remove the red extend line and, in manual mode, retract the front LGs. Here is what I found.

Starting on drivers side (side with Hydac valve). Removed red line coming from distribution block to Jack. Hit retract and fluid came out of the Jack, not the red line.

Reconnected red line to Jack.

On passenger (curb) side, removed red line from Jack. Hit retract and fluid came out of the Jack and the red line.

Reconnected red line to Jack.

Did I do this procedure correctly? If so, I am assuming an bypass is happening somewhere.

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by Javi

I'm well aware that there is no specific re-home procedure for the hydraulic Level Up Lippert system... however, when I had issues with the jacks not responding as expected when using "retract all" as in the right side went up about 6" and stopped then the left side started and went up all the way and then the front went up... the right side stayed down where it had stopped..

I could and did raise the right side manually... this happened again the next time I had deployed the rear jacks at a campsite and again I used manual to finish raising the right side..

The Lippert tech I talked to told me to try it several times and see if it would start acting correctly.. I did... and after 5 or 6 repeats it has never done it again.. in the last 20 or so trips.. Maybe it was constipated

Most likely you reseated an internal seal on one of the leveler legs.. as I said and you know..there are no hall sensors on the hyd system levelers..

The only way the system knows the levelers or LG are fully up is when the pressure starts to rise and you don’t let off the button then hi pressure switch opens and kills pump motor

Same thing on the extension. If the levelers are being extended the system is looking for a change in degree of level in x amo7nt of seconds and if it doesn’t see this then the forward control module flags and error

It’s a great system .. IMO and I would only buy a fifth wheel that had six point hud level up

Conversely I will never buy a fifth wheel with the new Equalizer Hydrauilc system Keystone is now installing in the 2022 Alpines..

It is a POS

[ChuckS]

Read the section I’ve highlighted in RED.. you have either one or both front LG bypassing internally ..

The first one you removed the extend line from and had fluid come out of the Jack and not the extend line is the cylinder most likely causing your problems

…. Most likely

See image

And YES you did the bypass test exactly as it should have been done

[ChuckS]

You did the test exactly as required.. call Lippert Tech support and get their professional opinion.l

Tell them the test you did, what the results were and what you see going on…

https://support.lci1.com/contact

Also if you have the Lippert App they have a chat mode and you can talk with a tech and have a hard copy of what they say, what they recommend, etc

I’m just an old guy with a failing mind, fingers that don’t work like they did 50 years ago, etc

[JBone]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

Read the section I’ve highlighted in RED.. you have either one or both front LG bypassing internally ..

The first one you removed the extend line from and had fluid come out of the Jack and not the extend line is the cylinder most likely causing your problems

…. Most likely

See image

And YES you did the bypass test exactly as it should have been done

Thank you!

I will call Lippert Tech Support again and let them know all what I have done.

I figured on the drivers side LG that it only came out of the jack and not the red line because the red line comes directly from the distribution block. See attached pictures I included previously. Really should be no way for fluid to come out of that red line on retract. However, on the passenger (curb) side, the red line comes from the drivers side LG.

I would think that if both of them failed, I did something seriously wrong while using the jacks to maneuver the trailer. And I don't see how this is possible, as I have never had any sort of error message or done anything crazy with them. Is my thinking correct here?

I do have a warranty on this trailer through Compass RV Protection. However, I am not sure what to do now because the jacks are down and the trailer cannot be safely moved.

I'll let you all know what Lippert says.

[JBone]

Originally Posted by JBone

Thank you!

I will call Lippert Tech Support again and let them know all what I have done.

I figured on the drivers side LG that it only came out of the jack and not the red line because the red line comes directly from the distribution block. See attached pictures I included previously. Really should be no way for fluid to come out of that red line on retract. However, on the passenger (curb) side, the red line comes from the drivers side LG.

I would think that if both of them failed, I did something seriously wrong while using the jacks to maneuver the trailer. And I don't see how this is possible, as I have never had any sort of error message or done anything crazy with them. Is my thinking correct here?

I do have a warranty on this trailer through Compass RV Protection. However, I am not sure what to do now because the jacks are down and the trailer cannot be safely moved.

I'll let you all know what Lippert says.

Update:

Lippert Tech Support believes both LGs are internally bypassing. Have two ordered and on their way. Lets see how this goes...

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

You did the test exactly as required.. call Lippert Tech support and get their professional opinion.l

Tell them the test you did, what the results were and what you see going on…

https://support.lci1.com/contact

Also if you have the Lippert App they have a chat mode and you can talk with a tech and have a hard copy of what they say, what they recommend, etc

I’m just an old guy with a failing mind, fingers that don’t work like they did 50 years ago, etc

That’s why I usually call them. Very knowledgeable staff and extremely customer oriented. Been that way for at least 10 years that I have dealt with them.

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

That’s why I usually call them. Very knowledgeable staff and extremely customer oriented. Been that way for at least 10 years that I have dealt with them.

Yup they are by far the best support folks for RVs that I have dealt with .. I like the online chat as well because you can have a hard copy of what was stated for trouble shooting issues, etc

That way you don’t have to try and remember what was said

The only issue with Lippert lately is many of the hydraulic cylinders are failing very early on these newer model units where as older units seem to be more reliable with regards to the hydraulic cylinders

I do also wish they would quit lying when they say the front LG can’t be rebuilt ..as well as the mid/rear levelers..they can and there are many success stories with the rebuilds.

[JBone]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

Yup they are by far the best support folks for RVs that I have dealt with .. I like the online chat as well because you can have a hard copy of what was stated for trouble shooting issues, etc

That way you don’t have to try and remember what was said

The only issue with Lippert lately is many of the hydraulic cylinders are failing very early on these newer model units where as older units seem to be more reliable with regards to the hydraulic cylinders

I do also wish they would quit lying when they say the front LG can’t be rebuilt ..as well as the mid/rear levelers..they can and there are many success stories with the rebuilds.

Yes, Lippert Tech Support has been great. They gave me a good deal on both of the front jacks as well. I just really hope they are right that this is the problem lol. Should know in about 1-2 weeks when I receive these things. In the mean time, they wanted me to get my front LGs retracted all the way retracted somehow and redo the internal bypass test just to confirm. I’m going to do that as well as move my new Hydac valve around to the other ones to see if that makes any difference.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

I do also wish they would quit lying when they say the front LG can’t be rebuilt ..as well as the mid/rear levelers..they can and there are many success stories with the rebuilds.

A few years back I had issues with one of the mid jacks, Lippert offered a couple fixes to try or replacement for $500-600. Fortunately one of the recommendations worked, in the mean time I'd stopped at the local hydraulic shop, he said if Lipperts fix didn't work he could completely rebuild the jack for $150 or less.
So as Chuck said they are rebuildable so don't spend $$ replacing if it can be rebuilt.

[JBone]

Originally Posted by JBone

Yes, Lippert Tech Support has been great. They gave me a good deal on both of the front jacks as well. I just really hope they are right that this is the problem lol. Should know in about 1-2 weeks when I receive these things. In the mean time, they wanted me to get my front LGs retracted all the way retracted somehow and redo the internal bypass test just to confirm. I’m going to do that as well as move my new Hydac valve around to the other ones to see if that makes any difference.

Update: I let everything sit all day and came out tonight to work on getting the LGs all the way retracted and running the internal bypass test again. I cracked the front LG Hydac valve open (not sure if it was necessary) and put bottle jacks under the front LGs and started pumping them up. I got the curb/passenger side all the way up and then the drivers side about 3/4 of the way up before I got tension (the drivers side LG did not want to go up very easily) and the bottle jack started lifting the front of the trailer up. I didn't want to mess anything up so I let the bottle jacks down, tightened the Hydac valve, and attempted to retract the front LGs with the control panel. Sure enough, they sucked right up like normal. The pump/motor sounded normal and bogged down when they were all the way up. I cycled the rear jacks and front LGs up and down a few times and all was working well. Then all of a sudden I heard a tone change in the pump/motor (sounds like less power/low battery) and I was back to square one. The front LG's raised and lowered noticeably slower and the trailer nose would sink back down when I left off the extend button. Now thinking that I might have a power problem, I disconnected the batteries to ensure I was only using shore power (shore power and batteries have both been connected the entire time), but still the same problem. I am noticing the motor getting pretty warm. Is this just because I am using it frequently or is this not normal.

I am sooo confused... Thoughts?

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by JBone

Update: I let everything sit all day and came out tonight to work on getting the LGs all the way retracted and running the internal bypass test again. I cracked the front LG Hydac valve open (not sure if it was necessary) and put bottle jacks under the front LGs and started pumping them up. I got the curb/passenger side all the way up and then the drivers side about 3/4 of the way up before I got tension (the drivers side LG did not want to go up very easily) and the bottle jack started lifting the front of the trailer up. I didn't want to mess anything up so I let the bottle jacks down, tightened the Hydac valve, and attempted to retract the front LGs with the control panel. Sure enough, they sucked right up like normal. The pump/motor sounded normal and bogged down when they were all the way up. I cycled the rear jacks and front LGs up and down a few times and all was working well. Then all of a sudden I heard a tone change in the pump/motor (sounds like less power/low battery) and I was back to square one. The front LG's raised and lowered noticeably slower and the trailer nose would sink back down when I left off the extend button. Now thinking that I might have a power problem, I disconnected the batteries to ensure I was only using shore power (shore power and batteries have both been connected the entire time), but still the same problem. I am noticing the motor getting pretty warm. Is this just because I am using it frequently or is this not normal.

I am sooo confused... Thoughts?

First .. do not “crack open” the Hydac valve on the front LG when doing a bypass test..

When you remove the extend line and then press retract you are testing two things at once..
One is the internal seals on the cylinder
Two is the Hydac valve operation itself as it is opened electrically and closed mechanically

With that valve cracked open after the test the LG will creep down

Hyd pump motor - it will get quite warm after a few cycles and is normal.. you need to allow the pump motor to cool down after a couple of extend retract cycles.

[JBone]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

First .. do not “crack open” the Hydac valve on the front LG when doing a bypass test..

When you remove the extend line and then press retract you are testing two things at once..
One is the internal seals on the cylinder
Two is the Hydac valve operation itself as it is opened electrically and closed mechanically

With that valve cracked open after the test the LG will creep down

Hyd pump motor - it will get quite warm after a few cycles and is normal.. you need to allow the pump motor to cool down after a couple of extend retract cycles.

Sorry, maybe my explanation was confusing. The Hydac valve was cracked open when I was using bottle jacks to manually push the front LGs up. Never when I was doing the internal bypass test.

Thanks for the info on the motor. That makes sense.

[Mikelff]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

First .. do not “crack open” the Hydac valve on the front LG when doing a bypass test..

When you remove the extend line and then press retract you are testing two things at once..
One is the internal seals on the cylinder
Two is the Hydac valve operation itself as it is opened electrically and closed mechanically

With that valve cracked open after the test the LG will creep down

Hyd pump motor - it will get quite warm after a few cycles and is normal.. you need to allow the pump motor to cool down after a couple of extend retract cycles.

Chuck, I have the electric Lippert 6 point system. I have recently noticed a somewhat loud squeaking on the right front leveler. Is there something I should lube? Is this signaling an issue? It seems to be working fine otherwise. Thanks!

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by Mikelff

Chuck, I have the electric Lippert 6 point system. I have recently noticed a somewhat loud squeaking on the right front leveler. Is there something I should lube? Is this signaling an issue? It seems to be working fine otherwise. Thanks!

I would try some dry silicone spray with PTFE on that electric leveler and see if that helps or eliminates the issue

[JBone]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

First .. do not “crack open” the Hydac valve on the front LG when doing a bypass test..

When you remove the extend line and then press retract you are testing two things at once..
One is the internal seals on the cylinder
Two is the Hydac valve operation itself as it is opened electrically and closed mechanically

With that valve cracked open after the test the LG will creep down

Hyd pump motor - it will get quite warm after a few cycles and is normal.. you need to allow the pump motor to cool down after a couple of extend retract cycles.

ChuckS, I believe I have seen you say that the return for all 6 jacks is on the same circuit. Is that correct?

I am still waiting for my LGs to arrive, but the night before last, I put my bottle jacks under the LGs again and started jacking them up. Once I felt tension/pressure/restriction, I stopped and manually retracted from the display unit. As it did before, the front LGs went up like normal. Normal speed, motor sounded normal, stayed up, etc. So at that point, all 6 jacks were fully retracted.

This morning I come out to find 4 of my 6 jacks have sank down or extended to some degree. All different lengths (1" to 4"). This would indicate a leak or bypass somewhere, correct? With this info, does it still make sense that the front LGs are the problem?

[JBone]

Just an update.

Placed and order for 2 new LGs a while back. Has taken very long to ship because apparently the first set that Lippert received from manufacturing did not pass QC. The second set did pass and was shipped out this week. Received yesterday, and Lippert sent me two of the same Left side LGs… I ordered two different part numbers, and they will be sending out a R LG hopefully very soon.

I installed the new L LG last night and problem is still there. I sincerely hope when I replace the R LG it fixes this problem. If not, I’ll be at a loss.

What are all the things that can cause pressure not to build in these systems? I have swapped out all 3 Hydacs in the system with a new one, and same issue. Can the motor/pump itself be of issue and causing this? The display unit sending the wrong signal?

It is so strange to me that sometimes I will push the retract button and they will shoot right up like normal. Other times they won’t move at all. The pump sounds noticeably different when they work and when they don’t. However, even the times that they retract like normal, they eventually float back down 4-5 inches. I have also been noticing a couple of the mid jacks floating down a couple inches. But all 4 rears always work as they should to extend and retract. Albeit when I retract the rears, the fronts extend.

Soo confused.

[JBone]

Originally Posted by JBone

Just an update.

Placed and order for 2 new LGs a while back. Has taken very long to ship because apparently the first set that Lippert received from manufacturing did not pass QC. The second set did pass and was shipped out this week. Received yesterday, and Lippert sent me two of the same Left side LGs… I ordered two different part numbers, and they will be sending out a R LG hopefully very soon.

I installed the new L LG last night and problem is still there. I sincerely hope when I replace the R LG it fixes this problem. If not, I’ll be at a loss.

What are all the things that can cause pressure not to build in these systems? I have swapped out all 3 Hydacs in the system with a new one, and same issue. Can the motor/pump itself be of issue and causing this? The display unit sending the wrong signal?

It is so strange to me that sometimes I will push the retract button and they will shoot right up like normal. Other times they won’t move at all. The pump sounds noticeably different when they work and when they don’t. However, even the times that they retract like normal, they eventually float back down 4-5 inches. I have also been noticing a couple of the mid jacks floating down a couple inches. But all 4 rears always work as they should to extend and retract. Albeit when I retract the rears, the fronts extend.

Soo confused.

Update:

Replaced the R LG and issue is fixed. Thanks for everyone’s help.

Side note, a tech at my dealership said he has had to replace more than a handful of LG’s on Raptors, Fuzions, and Carbons recently due to internal seal failure. This appears to be a common issue.