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Old 01-05-2021, 02:08 PM   #1
jmgreer1
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Tow Vehicle Capability

I'm sure this topic has been beaten to death so I apologize. The wife wants a TT and I've been researching/reading/racking my brain to educate myself on this entirely new world. We've got some TT choices but still need to personally walk in them to make sure it's what we want. Before I get too deep, I'm looking for confirmation my tow vehicle is capable of pulling such rigs.

I have a 2017 GMC Sierra 1500 outfitted with some factory add-ons. The particulars as follows:

GVWR: 7,200
Max Payload: 1,542
Max Trailer Weight: 10,800
GCWR: 16,700
Max Tongue Weight (with WDH): 1,250

The TT we are looking at are all mid-6,000's dry. I know I'll be at the upper end of the capacity, but would you say I am too ambitious??

TIA,
JG
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Old 01-05-2021, 02:15 PM   #2
jsb5717
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Welcome aboard! And thanks for taking the time to ask this important question.

Can you tell us which trailer, specifically, you are looking at? The weight that matters for calculation is the trailer GVWR. Approx 10-15% of that weight can be used to calc pin weight.

You might be OK given the numbers you've given but more detail will help button it down.
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Old 01-05-2021, 02:16 PM   #3
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Hello and to the forum
Don't look at dry weights. Figure out how much weight you're going to put in the truck before hitching up and go from there.
Should be about 13% tongue weight of trailer gvwr. Just because you can max out doesn't mean you should.
Good luck
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Old 01-05-2021, 02:27 PM   #4
jmgreer1
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Originally Posted by Northofu1 View Post
Hello and to the forum
Don't look at dry weights. Figure out how much weight you're going to put in the truck before hitching up and go from there.
Should be about 13% tongue weight of trailer gvwr. Just because you can max out doesn't mean you should.
Good luck
Exactly. I don't want to max out and sacrifice safety for a bigger rig.
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Old 01-05-2021, 02:29 PM   #5
jmgreer1
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Originally Posted by jsb5717 View Post
Welcome aboard! And thanks for taking the time to ask this important question.

Can you tell us which trailer, specifically, you are looking at? The weight that matters for calculation is the trailer GVWR. Approx 10-15% of that weight can be used to calc pin weight.

You might be OK given the numbers you've given but more detail will help button it down.
Specifically, we like the Outback 291UBH. The Keystone specs claim 6,600 dry with trailer capacity of 1,600. They also claim a tongue weight of 655.
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Old 01-05-2021, 02:35 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by jmgreer1 View Post
Specifically, we like the Outback 291UBH. The Keystone specs claim 6,600 dry with trailer capacity of 1,600. They also claim a tongue weight of 655.
You are looking at a 8000 lb plus camper when actually set up to camp. Your tongue weight will be in the neighborhood of 1000 lbs. Your payload is 1500 lbs so keep your cargo and passengers in the truck to 500 lbs and you will be at the limit of what you can safely drag down the road. Another important factor is that most anything over 25 ft long will be a chore with a 1/2 ton. Some smarter folks have come up with better numbers but if you get a 30' camper it will be wiggling all over behind you and your 1/2 ton won't be a happy drive as it will be pushing. If your missus is wanting a camper and as most gals do, like what they see in bigger campers, well have her OK a more capable tow vehicle.
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Old 01-05-2021, 02:37 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by jmgreer1 View Post
I'm sure this topic has been beaten to death so I apologize. The wife wants a TT and I've been researching/reading/racking my brain to educate myself on this entirely new world. We've got some TT choices but still need to personally walk in them to make sure it's what we want. Before I get too deep, I'm looking for confirmation my tow vehicle is capable of pulling such rigs.

I have a 2017 GMC Sierra 1500 outfitted with some factory add-ons. The particulars as follows:

GVWR: 7,200
Max Payload: 1,542
Max Trailer Weight: 10,800
GCWR: 16,700
Max Tongue Weight (with WDH): 1,250

The TT we are looking at are all mid-6,000's dry. I know I'll be at the upper end of the capacity, but would you say I am too ambitious??

TIA,
JG
Yes it's been discussed ad nauseum.

Let's go over the important number Max Payload. That' you say is 1,250. IF that's the correct number from the yellow sticker on the door then that's the max when the truck left the factory. Subtract any and all added equipment such as light bars, running boards, tonneau cover, bed liner, mud flaps,floor mats, infant car seats, change in the cupholder, stuff ion the glovebox, tool box, tools, etc. Then subtract the weight of occupants (include the dog if you have one) and anything you might take along for the trip like snakes, drinks, toy for a kid, etc. Now that number also won't include the WDH (weight distributing hitch) say 110 lbs.

Now the trailer. Any "mid 6K trailer empty will end up around 7- 7,500 lbs when loaded. Those empty weights don't include dealer installed battery, LP tanks, spare tire, or any of the "essential" items to use the camper like a water hose, waste dump hose, levelers or leveling blocks, water or wastewater. It also doesn't include stuff you will need like food, drinks, clothes, linens for the beds, towels, pots pans, plates, cups, coffee pot, toilet paper, toothpaste & brush, soap, shampoo, first aid kit, toys, and the list goes on.

The "standard: tongue weight for travel trailers is calculated using 10-15% of the trailer weight. Most folks use 13% as a "best guess". Since you don't have the trailer weight and can only get a true weight by driving it on a scale use the Gross trailer weight to be safe. So with your hypothetical mid 6K that's really going to end up closer to mid 7K use 7,500 X .13= 975 lbs. Add the 110 for a WDH and you're looking at a hitch weight of 1,085 lbs of your 1,250 lbs. used up before you lay your hand on the truck. I'll bet that you likely have more than the 165 lbs. of remaining payload in stuff in your truck right now.

A 1/2 ton truck is not made to haul that much weight. There's a difference between pulling and carrying a load. The max trailer weight doesn't translate to hauling a travel trailer. That number is only useful if you are pulling a hay wagon or a flatbed trailer full of lumber with very little weight on the tongue.

With such limited payload you are realistically looking at about a 5,000 lb GVW travel trailer.
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Old 01-05-2021, 02:43 PM   #8
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Read what he said again... he said his payload is 1542 and his max tongue weight is 1250 lbs with a weight distribution hitch. I don't really follow that at all; is that some number from the hitch? I seem him right at his upper edge weight wise either way.
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Old 01-05-2021, 02:50 PM   #9
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Read what he said again... he said his payload is 1542 and his max tongue weight is 1250 lbs with a weight distribution hitch. I don't really follow that at all; is that some number from the hitch? I seem him right at his upper edge weight wise either way.
My bad for mixing that up but it really won't m,uch matter. He'll be at or over either way.

The best thing to do is load it up as if your going camping (load up the DW, kids, dog, food, ise chest, etc.) fill up the gas tank and throw the wdh in the bed of the truck and go to a CAT scale and weight the truck. Take the weight of the truck from the scale slip and subtract that number from your 7,200 lb GVW. That will be your remaining payload. You'll find that payload number will shrink amazingly fast.
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Old 01-05-2021, 02:55 PM   #10
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That trailer is the best part of 34 feet, too long for that truck
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Old 01-05-2021, 04:19 PM   #11
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We pull a Keystone Bullet 261RBSWE with our similarly equipped Ram 1500 , the gvw is close to the same. The trailer has a gvwr of 7650 and our pickup handles it adequately with just the wife and I and a couple hundred pounds of gear. I am at the upper end of my payload, if not slightly over it. I would not want to have to deal with anything bigger or have a truck full of passengers unless we upgraded to a 3/4 ton truck.
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Old 01-05-2021, 04:24 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by wiredgeorge View Post
Read what he said again... he said his payload is 1542 and his max tongue weight is 1250 lbs with a weight distribution hitch. I don't really follow that at all; is that some number from the hitch? I seem him right at his upper edge weight wise either way.
It's the maximum receiver rating (with a WD hitch). I believe that receiver is rated 550 max "dead weight" hitch capacity.
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Old 01-05-2021, 04:25 PM   #13
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Yes it's been discussed ad nauseum.

Let's go over the important number Max Payload. That' you say is 1,250. IF that's the correct number from the yellow sticker on the door then that's the max when the truck left the factory. Subtract any and all added equipment such as light bars, running boards, tonneau cover, bed liner, mud flaps,floor mats, infant car seats, change in the cupholder, stuff ion the glovebox, tool box, tools, etc. Then subtract the weight of occupants (include the dog if you have one) and anything you might take along for the trip like snakes, drinks, toy for a kid, etc. Now that number also won't include the WDH (weight distributing hitch) say 110 lbs.

Now the trailer. Any "mid 6K trailer empty will end up around 7- 7,500 lbs when loaded. Those empty weights don't include dealer installed battery, LP tanks, spare tire, or any of the "essential" items to use the camper like a water hose, waste dump hose, levelers or leveling blocks, water or wastewater. It also doesn't include stuff you will need like food, drinks, clothes, linens for the beds, towels, pots pans, plates, cups, coffee pot, toilet paper, toothpaste & brush, soap, shampoo, first aid kit, toys, and the list goes on.

The "standard: tongue weight for travel trailers is calculated using 10-15% of the trailer weight. Most folks use 13% as a "best guess". Since you don't have the trailer weight and can only get a true weight by driving it on a scale use the Gross trailer weight to be safe. So with your hypothetical mid 6K that's really going to end up closer to mid 7K use 7,500 X .13= 975 lbs. Add the 110 for a WDH and you're looking at a hitch weight of 1,085 lbs of your 1,250 lbs. used up before you lay your hand on the truck. I'll bet that you likely have more than the 165 lbs. of remaining payload in stuff in your truck right now.

A 1/2 ton truck is not made to haul that much weight. There's a difference between pulling and carrying a load. The max trailer weight doesn't translate to hauling a travel trailer. That number is only useful if you are pulling a hay wagon or a flatbed trailer full of lumber with very little weight on the tongue.

With such limited payload you are realistically looking at about a 5,000 lb GVW travel trailer.
I appreciate the comments, albeit, not the ones I would prefer. I hoped for more and I'm surprised at the estimations on the weight of gear brought along in the truck and TT. Jumping up to 3/4 ton truck more than doubles payload capacity, which seems to be the most limiting factor. I was hoping to make do with what I already have.
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Old 01-05-2021, 04:34 PM   #14
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Payload was printed on the door sticker. The max tongue weight (with WDH) was noted in my owners manual at 1,250. Conventional hitch dropped the max tongue weight down to 800.
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Old 01-05-2021, 04:36 PM   #15
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I appreciate the comments, albeit, not the ones I would prefer. I hoped for more and I'm surprised at the estimations on the weight of gear brought along in the truck and TT. Jumping up to 3/4 ton truck more than doubles payload capacity, which seems to be the most limiting factor. I was hoping to make do with what I already have.
When we go to an RV show (a pre Covid thing as I recall) my wife is always drawn to the 44' fifth wheels with two bath rooms and the front living room. How good the ergonomics of a trailer is is more or less proportional to the room in the trailer. That is why my wife feels an affinity for the big trailers. Of course the floor plan and lay out are also a big factor but there is only so much that can be done with a 19' trailer and add a few more feet, even more can be done. If you folks are serious about camping, perhaps buy used for the first trailer to get a better idea of what is really important and if not used but new, then get a truck that meets the minimum ergonomics that you and your spouse are comfortable with. For my wife and myself as once a month campers about 30' fifth wheel is right as it meets our minimum needs. Yours will obviously be different. Also consider where you will be camping as in Texas two AC units are more or less a must in triple digit temps.
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Old 01-05-2021, 04:45 PM   #16
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When we go to an RV show (a pre Covid thing as I recall) my wife is always drawn to the 44' fifth wheels with two bath rooms and the front living room. How good the ergonomics of a trailer is is more or less proportional to the room in the trailer. That is why my wife feels an affinity for the big trailers. Of course the floor plan and lay out are also a big factor but there is only so much that can be done with a 19' trailer and add a few more feet, even more can be done. If you folks are serious about camping, perhaps buy used for the first trailer to get a better idea of what is really important and if not used but new, then get a truck that meets the minimum ergonomics that you and your spouse are comfortable with. For my wife and myself as once a month campers about 30' fifth wheel is right as it meets our minimum needs. Yours will obviously be different. Also consider where you will be camping as in Texas two AC units are more or less a must in triple digit temps.
Campers would be myself, wife, and two children (11,6) so we are drawn to the bunkhouse models. We live in south MS and are familiar with high temps (plus humidity) so 2 A/C units are a must. The trips we would like to take could take us anywhere from SW USA to NE USA, but we have yet to take a trip still...
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Old 01-05-2021, 05:00 PM   #17
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Campers would be myself, wife, and two children (11,6) so we are drawn to the bunkhouse models. We live in south MS and are familiar with high temps (plus humidity) so 2 A/C units are a must. The trips we would like to take could take us anywhere from SW USA to NE USA, but we have yet to take a trip still...
You have things to think about and consider for sure. Don't be fooled by the 3/4 ton capacity unless you really look into it. Most diesel 3/4 ton trucks don't have much more payload than some 1/2 tons. It depends on configuration, i.e. crew cab, super cab, single cab, 4 WD or 2 WD and trim levels all effect payload.

If you are seriously considering upgrading your truck I'd suggest considering a 1 ton. Not much more money and with kids that age they will dpo nothing but grow and want to bring along friends and more toys. With a 1 ton you have the capacity to grow into a fifth wheel without chasing another truck right away.

Asking the questions, and not being angry at the answers are the right direction. No one will have a good time if the trailers pushing the truck around and you're on edge driving a "white knuckle" handful dreading every truck that passes by and pushes you toward the shoulder then sucks you back into the next lane. Many of us here have BTGT.

Good luck in your new adventures and stay safe.
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Old 01-06-2021, 01:58 AM   #18
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All things considered, it would be my opinion that you don't have enough truck for that trailer. The RV weighs too much, it is considerably too long, and your pickup, while not so light as to be classified as a 'grocery-getter,' is very, very much a lightweight.
I've read all the comments above and I agree with almost every one. Three very important things to take away from this thread:
Yellow sticker 'cargo capacity should not exceed' number is king
CAT scales are your friend
1/2 ton pickups have no business towing 34' trailers
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Old 01-06-2021, 05:29 AM   #19
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While I am definitely not one to advocate that half ton trucks arent capable of safely hauling anything over a popup camper I concur with the others here, and I believe that that combination is definitely one I would not recommend, . EspecialEspecially and their guaranteed extras are being added to the equipment pile. You are entering the realm of 3/4 ton tow vehicle with that combination.
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Old 01-10-2021, 08:26 AM   #20
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My experience offers a simple answer. If you want a comfortable tow, get a trailer that has a loaded weight 1/2 of your truck's tow capacity. Plus, spend the extra money to get a better wd hitch with sway control built in. Your drive will be more comfortable. Better gas mileage. Easier to park. I went from a 26ft to an 18ft with my half ton and I now enjoy the trip.
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