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07-14-2017, 03:33 AM
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#21
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: "Murvil, TN
Posts: 2,212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank G
I think they should take the 250/2500 trucks off the market as they serve no useful purpose to the towing public. They weigh to much, are always over loaded, and horribly underbuilt as confirmed by this thread. Beware the 350's are next.
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I am assuming a little tongue in cheek humor ^^^^^ in you post? Probably should have used a smiley if that's the case, lest someone think that you are serious.
__________________
2016 F350 King Ranch Crew Cab Dually Diesel 4x4
2018 Grand Design Momentum 394M
2023 Suzuki GSX-S1000GT+
Excessive payload capacity is a wonderful thing
"If it ain't Fast....It ain't Fun"
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07-14-2017, 04:55 AM
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#22
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: B.C
Posts: 1,399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrated
I am assuming a little tongue in cheek humor ^^^^^ in you post? Probably should have used a smiley if that's the case, lest someone think that you are serious.
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X 2 ^^^^ Smileys help if you're making a joke. There's nothing wrong with a good strong 250 of any make. I could easily pull with a 250 but I went 350 as one day I'll be replacing the trailer with no worries about the truck.
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2010 Keystone Cougar 25 RL.
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07-14-2017, 05:23 AM
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#23
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: WI
Posts: 424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank G
I think they should take the 250/2500 trucks off the market as they serve no useful purpose to the towing public. They weigh to much, are always over loaded, and horribly underbuilt as confirmed by this thread. Beware the 350's are next.
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I will not go to far on this but the only thing under built on newer 2500-250 is the paper trail GVWR, not the trucks themselves in most cases.
To the OP here is a link to the 2011 Ram tow charts, could still be cutting it close there. Page 4 is probably where you're at from your description. I would assume gas crew cab.
https://www.ramtrucks.com/shared/pdf..._Tow_Chart.pdf
When looking at Rams you'll want to jump into the 2014's with the 6.4 hemi to be in the safe payload category for what you are looking at.
https://www.ramtrucks.com/assets/tow...wing.Specs.pdf
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07-14-2017, 05:25 AM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Kyle, Texas
Posts: 449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank G
I think they should take the 250/2500 trucks off the market as they serve no useful purpose to the towing public. They weigh to much, are always over loaded, and horribly underbuilt as confirmed by this thread. Beware the 350's are next.
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If this is a joke than lol. Otherwise I'm not buyin' what your sellin'...
__________________
2016 Silverado 2500HD
2015 Bullet 272BHS
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07-14-2017, 06:51 AM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Post Falls
Posts: 424
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We have the 284rdb and on the side it says 1\2 towable so it must be correct...???😂
A perfect way to make this possible is to stay in motels along the way and always eat in restaurants. That way you can travel without loading the camper.
Yes, the manufacturers of both the vehicle and the camper are really pushing their facts. When we are traveling our truck is probably close to reading its limit. I am sure the 17s and 18s are much more capable but with older TV's they really need to be careful...
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07-14-2017, 08:20 AM
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#26
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Dade City
Posts: 1,039
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank G
I think they should take the 250/2500 trucks off the market as they serve no useful purpose to the towing public. They weigh to much, are always over loaded, and horribly underbuilt as confirmed by this thread. Beware the 350's are next.
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I made the above statement quite seriously. My 2500 with full tank and bed rails weighs in at 8,200 lbs. add 1,050 lbs for passengers and hitch and we have 9,250 lbs actual loaded truck weight leaving just 750 lbs. for pin weight. That 750 lbs does not include the self inflected safety margin some are calling for. This is why I said what I said. A 250/2500 can not pull anything but the smallest RV Legally, and you have to be careful with a 350/3500 srw especially if it came with a down rated sticker.
Yes, a friend of mine ended up with a 350 with a 10,000 lb sticker. He is in worse shape than I am.
I am not advocating anyone exceed the stickers on the vehicle or the tow information as provided by the manufacture.
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07-14-2017, 08:59 AM
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#27
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: "Murvil, TN
Posts: 2,212
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I agree on this point.....F250/2500 trucks do have less payload capacity than it seems that they should.....but, they do serve a purpose, even in the RV world, just not usually in the 5th wheel world. If you read the forum much, you may have read about my struggles with my F250 Diesel and all of the stuff I went through, hoping to make it work for my tow behind T.H. Unfortunately, some folks do not research the capabilities of the truck before they buy it (and I admit, that was me in 2010 when I bought my F250 Diesel), or they don't plan ahead enough to buy a bigger truck for when they move up to a larger camper/T.H. and 5th wheel......that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be made. There are many instances that a 3/4T truck will fit the bill perfectly, but a person needs to do their due diligence BEFORE buying the truck, not after the purchase and then finding that their truck is woefully inadequate. Lots and lots of people want to go camping and need a truck to tow their campers, and they let their Brother-in-law, their neighbor, the salesman, the truck dealer, tell them that "That baby right there will tow anything we've got on the lot....It's a towing machine". Since they themselves, don't know any better, they think...."Yep, that's the one for me", and they buy it and are sadly disappointed with the purchase. You can't fix stupid, but in many cases, these folks are not stupid people, they just don't know enough about things to ask the right questions and they believe what someone tells them.
The next step.....join a forum with like minded folks like us....campers, T.H. folks, 5ver folks and ask...."Is my newly purchased F150 with whatever engine and tow package, big enough to tow a 38' 5ver that weighs 15K that I'm thinking about buying? When we break the news to them that they screwed up and bought the wrong truck for the job at hand, some folks go into denial and try to convince everyone here that they can do it.....it's a new truck after all! Others, like myself, will heed the advice of the "old hands" here and make the necessary changes to get to where they need to be.....a smaller camper, maybe tow behind instead of 5ver, or buy a different truck that is up to the task.
So the 3/4T trucks do have a place, just not everyplace. Kind of like taking a pellet gun to go Bear hunting.....it doesn't work.....but they are fun to shoot at paper targets, small rodents and such.
__________________
2016 F350 King Ranch Crew Cab Dually Diesel 4x4
2018 Grand Design Momentum 394M
2023 Suzuki GSX-S1000GT+
Excessive payload capacity is a wonderful thing
"If it ain't Fast....It ain't Fun"
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07-14-2017, 09:20 AM
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#28
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Waco, Tx
Posts: 5,457
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It weren't all that long ago....
That a 1/2 ton pickup was registered for Curb Weight plus 1000 pounds... A 3/4 ton pickup was registered for Curb Weight plus 1500 pounds and a 1 ton truck was a dually pickup registered for Curb Weight plus 2000 pounds...
There weren't no 1 ton SRW pickups.... I remember a dealer told me he wanted to sell me a 7/8 ton Ram pickup... it had a Dana 80 rear end and SRW...
Didn't buy it.. couldn't see the practical use for it back then, and still don't...
Now we got 1 ton dually pickups with payloads of 6000 + pounds... Wouldn't that be a 3 ton pickup????
__________________
2015 Ford F350 DRW 6.7 Diesel XL
2020 Avalanche 313 RS
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07-14-2017, 09:24 AM
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#29
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Site Team
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrated
I agree on this point.....F250/2500 trucks do have less payload capacity than it seems that they should.....but, they do serve a purpose, even in the RV world, just not usually in the 5th wheel world. If you read the forum much, you may have read about my struggles with my F250 Diesel and all of the stuff I went through, hoping to make it work for my tow behind T.H. Unfortunately, some folks do not research the capabilities of the truck before they buy it (and I admit, that was me in 2010 when I bought my F250 Diesel), or they don't plan ahead enough to buy a bigger truck for when they move up to a larger camper/T.H. and 5th wheel......that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be made. There are many instances that a 3/4T truck will fit the bill perfectly, but a person needs to do their due diligence BEFORE buying the truck, not after the purchase and then finding that their truck is woefully inadequate. Lots and lots of people want to go camping and need a truck to tow their campers, and they let their Brother-in-law, their neighbor, the salesman, the truck dealer, tell them that "That baby right there will tow anything we've got on the lot....It's a towing machine". Since they themselves, don't know any better, they think...."Yep, that's the one for me", and they buy it and are sadly disappointed with the purchase. You can't fix stupid, but in many cases, these folks are not stupid people, they just don't know enough about things to ask the right questions and they believe what someone tells them.
The next step.....join a forum with like minded folks like us....campers, T.H. folks, 5ver folks and ask...."Is my newly purchased F150 with whatever engine and tow package, big enough to tow a 38' 5ver that weighs 15K that I'm thinking about buying? When we break the news to them that they screwed up and bought the wrong truck for the job at hand, some folks go into denial and try to convince everyone here that they can do it.....it's a new truck after all! Others, like myself, will heed the advice of the "old hands" here and make the necessary changes to get to where they need to be.....a smaller camper, maybe tow behind instead of 5ver, or buy a different truck that is up to the task.
So the 3/4T trucks do have a place, just not everyplace. Kind of like taking a pellet gun to go Bear hunting.....it doesn't work.....but they are fun to shoot at paper targets, small rodents and such.
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Excellent post.
I have to agree there is a place for a 3/4 ton truck. But, as I've said, and as xrated posted, they're not for everything and have limitations even if by just "the sticker".
In my case a 3/4 gasser gave me plenty of safety margin on all my weights with my bumper pull - even with the 10k sticker limitation. I didn't need a one ton, nor did I want one at the time. Now, after about 3 years with it I am thinking I'll go to a one ton; not because of weights but because I think I'll change to a diesel. My rationale is that if I'm going to upgrade trucks....again, for a diesel I might as well make it a one ton and be done with it; not because the gas 3/4 ton doesn't fit the bill and there is no use for it, but because going to a diesel DOES reduce the payload and if I'm buying a new truck I want to gain payload, not lose it.
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07-14-2017, 10:12 AM
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#30
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: "Murvil, TN
Posts: 2,212
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Thank you sourdough. I believe that any of the folks that are on here, but especially the new to towing folks, deserve to have good advice and facts presented to them. They can, like all of us, either take the wisdom that is offered or they can ignore it and do what their "brother-in-law" says (who may know nothing about towing). So even though it takes some time to type out some of the responses, as above, to me it is worth offering up that info. After all, I was one of those "don't know anything about heavy towing" guys as recently as last fall and hopefully I've come a long way.....through the school of hard knocks AND from the excellent advice given here by some of the folks that really know what they are talking about.
__________________
2016 F350 King Ranch Crew Cab Dually Diesel 4x4
2018 Grand Design Momentum 394M
2023 Suzuki GSX-S1000GT+
Excessive payload capacity is a wonderful thing
"If it ain't Fast....It ain't Fun"
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07-14-2017, 11:36 AM
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#31
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: S/E
Posts: 37
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We have the same camper that you are looking at, 2017 Cougar X-Lite 28 RDB. Our tow vehicle is a 2016 Chevy 2500HD diesel. We moved up in the tow vehicle dept last year when we learned that our TT was quickly becoming too small for our family. We put the cart before the horse, as in we upgraded TV's before we knew what 5th wheel we were buying. Our prior truck was a 2003 Dodge, quad cab, short bed, 4x4 with tow package. On paper it was good to go for our TT, 2013 Forest River Surveyor Sport SP-260. In reality it was just enough truck. The Cougars base only weighs about the same as our loaded TT. And it fits the 2500 well. With that said, if you feel you "might" upgrade to a larger heavier 5th wheel in the future then bite the bullet and get a 1 ton.
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07-14-2017, 02:06 PM
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#32
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Centerville
Posts: 25
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Buck, how are you liking it? we just put money down on ours today so they won't sell while we pick out a truck.
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07-14-2017, 02:26 PM
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#33
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Centerville
Posts: 25
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What do you guys recommend for bed length? I was going to go with Long but the dealer did mention i could get a short bed if i go with the right hitch.
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07-14-2017, 02:36 PM
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#34
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,996
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The Ford SuperDuty "standard bed" is 6'9" long. The XLite front cap is made so it doesn't require a long bed truck or a sliding hitch. We have the standard bed truck and have never been in a situation where we would have needed a sliding hitch, and we regularly camp in "out of the way" forest campgrounds that need 4WD to get to the site. Our previous truck was a 2013 F250 long bed. We use the same hitch for both trucks. Honestly I can't say that I've noticed any difference in ability to back into any campsite we've ever wanted to park in both with the long bed truck or with the current "standard" bed truck.
As for trucks with beds shorter than 6'9", you may find that you need a sliding hitch, but I would think you'll be OK with any "standard bed" in a HD truck. If you're still considering a half ton truck, you'll definitely want to steer clear of the 5' bed models from any manufacturer, even with a sliding hitch, you'll have problems with bed clearance.
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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07-14-2017, 04:27 PM
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#35
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Centerville
Posts: 25
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I have to actually check the door sticker on this one but from google i found this one, what do you think?
2014 ford f-250 SD XLT 6.2L V8 OHV 16V Crew Cab
towing capacity - 12100
payload - 3059
CarSoup Link - http://tinyurl.com/yco456gs
And again, thanks everyone! The whole family greatly appreciates your help with this.
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07-14-2017, 05:15 PM
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#36
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: "Murvil, TN
Posts: 2,212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackNoir
I have to actually check the door sticker on this one but from google i found this one, what do you think?
2014 ford f-250 SD XLT 6.2L V8 OHV 16V Crew Cab
towing capacity - 12100
payload - 3059
CarSoup Link - http://tinyurl.com/yco456gs
And again, thanks everyone! The whole family greatly appreciates your help with this.
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I'm not sure how much difference the Diesel vs. the gasser would affect payload, but I had one very similar to that one pictured...with the 6.7 Diesel and my payload was 2148 lbs. I know the gasser has a lighter curb weight, just not sure it's 850 lbs difference. Definitely check the door sticker.
__________________
2016 F350 King Ranch Crew Cab Dually Diesel 4x4
2018 Grand Design Momentum 394M
2023 Suzuki GSX-S1000GT+
Excessive payload capacity is a wonderful thing
"If it ain't Fast....It ain't Fun"
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07-14-2017, 05:30 PM
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#37
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Centerville
Posts: 25
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Another one i just found is a 2014 ram 2500 big horn slt 6.4L. Looking at the specs from ramtrucks.com i believe its the following, this is unconfirmed:
payload - 3,180
GVWR - 10,000
GCWR - 19,500
base weight - 6,822
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07-14-2017, 05:33 PM
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#38
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,996
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I can't speak to the value or condition of that truck, but I can say that we had a 2013 that was equipped very much the same. IF that truck has a 3.73 axle ratio it will tow the 28RDB with ease. Of course you won't be "conquering mountain passes in 6th gear" but you can rest comfortably knowing that the truck will carry your trailer and give you about 1000 pounds of cargo capacity with the fifth wheel hitched (assuming a payload of 2900 pounds, a hitch of 100 pounds and a pin weight of 1800 pounds). Plan on getting about 13/14 MPH solo in town, 16MPG solo on the highway and around 8MPG towing.
The truck looks like it's equipped with auxiliary power switches, brake control and an electronic transfer case, so you're pretty much set to install a fifth wheel hitch and "hit the road". I don't know what brand tires are on the truck, they aren't OEM Michelins, so make sure they are LRE (10 ply) and plan to run them at 65PSI front and 80 PSI rear when towing.
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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07-14-2017, 05:39 PM
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#39
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Centerville
Posts: 25
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Thanks John! I sent them a request for details from the door sticker and i'm contemplating driving up there tomorrow to see it myself.
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07-14-2017, 05:41 PM
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#40
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: S/E
Posts: 37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackNoir
Buck, how are you liking it? we just put money down on ours today so they won't sell while we pick out a truck.
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I would love to say we love it, but alas we have yet to actually camp in it since we bought it late Nov last year. We did sleep in it one night driveway camping. We took it back to the dealer mid April for 9 or 10 warranty issues, nothing actually major, ie access door leaks, antenna leak, fridge lower hinge screw misaligned and hits the door upon closing. Things I could have fixed but felt I shouldn't have to fix. Well 1 Jun a storm blew through Knoxville and a tree limb put a few nice holes in our roof. $12k plus in insurance and we should be getting it back soon.
We did start working on it when we brought it home. We only have one child so the top bunk wasn't needed. So I cut it down and made a 12 inch shelf along the rear wall and put in an animal print wallpaper boarder to cover the holes from the top bunk. I would post pictures however Photobucket just killed linking and I haven't gotten around to moving to another service.
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