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Old 10-03-2022, 07:52 AM   #1
peanut
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Bad converter location

Just discovered my first gotcha by Keystone.

The trailer did not come with the factory lithium option, and the dealer price to add one was so outrageous that I just took the cheap lead acids that dealers install. For well less than half what the dealer wanted I ordered a 206ah SOK LifePo4 (based on Will Prowse reviews) and started looking for the WFCO converter. Wanted to see what model it was and to confirm it was lithium capable.

I finally found it - after laying on my stomach and using a flashlight to see what's what. A deck mount buried so far under the stove, next to the exterior wall, and with so many wires in front of it, that it is completely unreachable. Can't read any labels on it or even get an arm in there to change a fuse if needed. I will need to pull the stove to access it and see what it is and if I can relocate it to an acessable location. I didn't plan on something like this being my first mod but what is, is, I guess.

Thanks Keystone. Wondering if this build is standard or if my converter was installed by a clueless newbie. Probably never know the answer.
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Old 10-03-2022, 08:19 AM   #2
travelin texans
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peanut View Post
Just discovered my first gotcha by Keystone.

The trailer did not come with the factory lithium option, and the dealer price to add one was so outrageous that I just took the cheap lead acids that dealers install. For well less than half what the dealer wanted I ordered a 206ah SOK LifePo4 (based on Will Prowse reviews) and started looking for the WFCO converter. Wanted to see what model it was and to confirm it was lithium capable.

I finally found it - after laying on my stomach and using a flashlight to see what's what. A deck mount buried so far under the stove, next to the exterior wall, and with so many wires in front of it, that it is completely unreachable. Can't read any labels on it or even get an arm in there to change a fuse if needed. I will need to pull the stove to access it and see what it is and if I can relocate it to an acessable location. I didn't plan on something like this being my first mod but what is, is, I guess.

Thanks Keystone. Wondering if this build is standard or if my converter was installed by a clueless newbie. Probably never know the answer.
They are not built for consumers convenience but rather speed of getting them out the factory door as many & as fast as possible.
If you've ever visited the factory & seen how & by whom they are assembled a lot of head scratching done by the consumers would be perfectly clear.
I'm quite sure that at the point your converter was installed there was nothing anywhere near it other than empty floor, no walls, no cabinets, nothing but tile & carpet.
Yep all the flooring is added as soon as the floor is in place then the walls are placed on top of the flooring.
All are built the same regardless of make, model or price.
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Old 10-03-2022, 08:39 AM   #3
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I firmly believe the design guys have never camped, let alone ever worked on any of the RVs they've laid out. Sure, everything is "accessible" somehow but it's obvious that little importance is placed on serviceability. Just another thing to worry about when considering a floor plan.
One of my previous cars had the battery placed in such a way that you had to remove the passenger front tire then the fender liner to replace it. God forbid you'd ever want to add water to it
Moving the converter will be a job but sounds like you're up to it. Best of luck.
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Old 10-03-2022, 09:17 AM   #4
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Old 10-03-2022, 09:51 AM   #5
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Found mine... although out in the open..... Far, Far, Far back, will need a 10YO to crawl in there to get it.... Then be charged for Child abuse.
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Old 10-03-2022, 10:10 AM   #6
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We had a 1999 Dodge Durrango R/T years ago. The heater core sprung a leak. They had to remove the ENTIRE dashboard, from the steering wheel to the A/C evaporator coil. Cost like $1,200 20 years ago. Nope, they (manufacturers) don't consider ANYTHING other than cutting time and material from the assembly line. That methodology is what let's companies from McDonalds to sell their burgers to Keystone selling their trailers at the affordable price points for the "average" person to afford.
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Old 10-03-2022, 02:24 PM   #7
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We had a 1999 Dodge Durrango R/T years ago. The heater core sprung a leak. They had to remove the ENTIRE dashboard, from the steering wheel to the A/C evaporator coil. Cost like $1,200 20 years ago. Nope, they (manufacturers) don't consider ANYTHING other than cutting time and material from the assembly line. That methodology is what let's companies from McDonalds to sell their burgers to Keystone selling their trailers at the affordable price points for the "average" person to afford.
I’ve seen components near impossible to reach in $400,000.00 motorhomes. I think the designers and engineers get together and try to figure out what can be “stuffed” into any leftover space.
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Old 10-03-2022, 03:40 PM   #8
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things crammed into spaces

Sounds like old VWs. Battery was under backseat, God forbid you did not put the cover on pos connection. person sits on seat and in alittle while you saw smoke. Wifes plymouth they put battery behind plastic fender cover on drivers side, small acces door, omly thing they did smart was put studs under hood to jump start. Ford louieville trucks air conditioner line in cab was so tight only way to get to get to it was take a 3/4 open end wrench and bend it in a 90 degree angle.Want some more??? older oldsmobile pontiac and buick Front spark plug was behind air cond comp. Changed many when people had a miss fire.But I had a tune up not long ago Guys use to skip that plug and let the customer worry about it
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Old 10-03-2022, 07:45 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
We had a 1999 Dodge Durrango R/T years ago. The heater core sprung a leak. They had to remove the ENTIRE dashboard, from the steering wheel to the A/C evaporator coil. Cost like $1,200 20 years ago. Nope, they (manufacturers) don't consider ANYTHING other than cutting time and material from the assembly line. That methodology is what let's companies from McDonalds to sell their burgers to Keystone selling their trailers at the affordable price points for the "average" person to afford.
A friend of mine has a 2012 Camaro, the AC quit working and he took it to the mechanics I use... They told him they would not fix the car as it had a leak in the evaporator and replacing that required removal of the windshield, so they could get to the bolts to remove the dash.

He took it to a Chevy dealer and they told him if the windshield crack when they removed it... it would be his expense to replace.

Guess what... $600 for the new windshield and $2600 total for the repair.

Someone should be shot for a crappy design like that.

-Brian
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Old 10-04-2022, 01:10 AM   #10
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I have a 2021 Cougar 26RBS and converted to litium batteries... Took out the standard WFCO 9855 and replaced it with the 9855-LIS... Lithium profile enabled by a jumper... Sold the old 9855 on ebay... Was an easy switch on mine as I had a nice access panel. Note that the WFCO tapers charge from bulk mode to adsorbtion mode after a few hours and if your lithiums are 200ah and greater and were fairly discharged, you just need to turn off the converter via thr breaker for a few secs and turn it back on to re-instate bulk mode and to fully charge at the fastest rate... These instructions were from WFCO technical support and in the manual.
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Old 10-04-2022, 05:14 AM   #11
flybouy
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Originally Posted by B-O-B'03 View Post
A friend of mine has a 2012 Camaro, the AC quit working and he took it to the mechanics I use... They told him they would not fix the car as it had a leak in the evaporator and replacing that required removal of the windshield, so they could get to the bolts to remove the dash.

He took it to a Chevy dealer and they told him if the windshield crack when they removed it... it would be his expense to replace.

Guess what... $600 for the new windshield and $2600 total for the repair.

Someone should be shot for a crappy design like that.

-Brian
Back in the mid 1960's I went to WV with my father to see his brother who ran the motor shop for the WVSP. They had Dodge cars then and I recall my uncle opening up the repair book on replacing the heater core. Step 1. Remove front bumper. Step 2. Remove right front fender. Step 3. Remove inner fender..... He fired up the acetylene torch and cut out the front of the heater box. He made a tin patch to cover it but later they and other car mfgs sold pre- stamped patch kits.

Early Mustangs had holes tapped for zero grease fittings in the upper A arms. Problem was you couldn't get to them. Solution? Burn 2 holes in the shock towers to install them. Many "pony cars" of the Era required a contortionist to get out rear spark plugs if a big block v8 was stuffed under the hood. And the list goes on and on. Point is. Burying items that will fail in difficult to access areas is as old as the industries themselves. Take a look at the way most cars trucks were built in the early 19 hundreds. The brake master cylinder was under the floor even though the engine compartment was roomy with a 4 or 6 cyl living there.
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Old 10-09-2022, 07:59 AM   #12
Krich
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Switched out converter

Our 2022 Keystone Cougar 316 RLS came with the 200i solar package. We moved our Battleborn Lithium batteries to this new trailer but found that the converter was not designed to charge lithium batteries. This is a known issue. Why partner with Dragonfly and not equip the trailer for lithium batteries?! With great customer service with Aaron at Battleborn we purchased a Progressive Dynamic converter to correct the problem. Fortunately the converter location was under the counter and easily accessible. There were other issues with the solar power design that we have corrected and we are now very happy with our system.
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Old 10-09-2022, 08:04 PM   #13
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I don’t even try to figure out their engineering and design logic anymore.
It is a business to make as much money, manufacture a product and get it out the door as quickly as possible. Part of that includes put everything in a limited amount of space as easily and quickly as possible.
How to service it or access it after it leaves assembly is not of concern. It isn’t built with ease of maintenance by consumers in mind.
Sad to say you’ll probably have to remove the stove to access the converter for maintenance or replacement. If there is an outside access via storage the back of the storage may have a wood panel that can be removed, but it still provides limited access.
We specifically toured some Keystone assembly plants to get a better understanding of how it’s put together, when certain items are installed and how to get at them.
There is no easier way for Dealer or Service Dept to get to it either… and we wonder why a $100 replacement costs $700 in labor!

Learn everything you can know about your rig and do the work yourself.
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