SOLAR as additional power source

[pineappleexpress]

More and more we've been looking into boondocking rather than the traditional parks & campgrounds since we like to get off the beaten path. In doing so Solar seems to be the way to go in being able to get continuous /sustainable power without having to drag along extra gas for a fuel fed generator.

We've been weeding out different options and reading extensively through the forum and other sites for recommendations, but haven't found an all decent answer for our issue/ concerns.

We'd like to try to maintain as much of the original system as possible and still be able to outfit the rig (2013 cougar 330RBK) with solar that can run everything in it. We've found that sourcing products that have ample power to be able to run the higher power items (AC, microwave, hairdryer, hot plates...etc) is proving challenging to get it all.

We've looked at switching over our 12v system from lead acid battery to 4- 12v LiFePO4(lithium iron phosphate) in series with a 48v all in one solar power system with a 12 v step down converter. Also considering to get a solar generator to power the high load items due to when the rig is on 12v it won't run anything except lighting really. With the all in one unit it does have the possibility for a 110v external power source.

Is it possible/safe to create the loop to use this 110v for the connection to the 50amp shore power instead of the generator? And will it be enough? Or is there a better cheaper way to maintain the original system while adding solar options?

[chuckster57]

Have you considered an Inverter/charger? It will give you 110VAC for the microwave, tv and hairdryer, and charge the batteries while plugged into shore power. IMHO your asking a lot to run an AC unit on solar.

[flybouy]

Looking for a solar system capable of running EVERYTHING in a 50 Amp service camper for any length of time doesn't exist yet. A 50 Amp camper is 50 amps on each of two legs so it's actually 100 amps @ 120v ac. That would require 12,000 of solar generation and enough battery storage to utilize that much energy over the hours of non charging, i.e. at night, or cloudy daytime as supplemental.

I would recommend that you continue doing your research and take a good hard look at want's vs needs. Most folks that I have read abou use a couple of solar panels and several batteries for what they consider "essential" such as water pump, furnace, 12v DC loads like lights, radio, control circuits, etc. The 120v ac circuits are typically used BREIFLY, say to power a Keurig for a cup or two of coffee or for a "light" load such as a TV for an hour or so.

You'll note that I used terms of generic solar panels and batteries as there are varied costs and capacities associated with them. If you went with the best that money could buy ($8-$10 K or more) you still would not have the capacity to run EVERYTHING for any length of time.

Good luck with your search.

[JRTJH]

Let's do a little "basic electronics" for a minute:

A 12 volt 100 amp/hour battery will provide 1200 watts for one hour.
(1 amp = 12 watts and 100 amps for an hour = 1200 watts for an hour)

So, a bank of four 100 amp/hour batteries will provide 4800 watts of energy.

Now, a 13,500 BTU air conditioner uses 13.6 amps which is 13.6x120 = 1632 watts.

So, in theory, a single 100 amp/hour battery would power that air conditioner for about 45 minutes. A bank of four 100 amp/hour batteries would power the air conditioner for about 180 minutes. That amounts to about 3 hours of air conditioner run time....

Granted, during sunlight hours, there will be some "solar energy gain" added to the system, but at night, when it's "swelteringly hot" it would take around 3 times that much battery power, just to run the A/C through the night.

Given the approximate $1000 price tag of each battery, that's $12,000 in batteries. Add the cost of the rest of a solar system capable of maintaining a full charge on that much power use and you're looking at a "very expensive system"...

Keep in mind, the above "calculations" are only approximations for one given situation.... That situation is: Sitting in the dark, not watching TV and only running a single rooftop air unit through the night.... Add lights, TV, microwave, coffee maker, water pump, refrigerator and the other electrical requirements, well, even a $20,000 system may not be large enough to power "everything, indiscriminately"..... YMMV

[travelin texans]

I'm trying to understand the need to operate everything on a 50 amp rv off solar &/or batteries??
You're going into the middle of nowhere, where no man has gone before, to get away from it all I'm guessing to sit in the rv under the ac watching tv & popping microwave popcorn & spend tens of thousands of dollars on power equipment to be able do so?
Install a big generator for about $5-7k, push the button on the wall to start it, sit back & relax. Or pull into most any rv park, plug the cord into the 50 amp pedestal & done.

[LewisB]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

I'm trying to understand the need to operate everything on a 50 amp rv off solar &/or batteries??
You're going into the middle of nowhere, where no man has gone before, to get away from it all I'm guessing to sit in the rv under the ac watching tv & popping microwave popcorn & spend tens of thousands of dollars on power equipment to be able do so?
Install a big generator for about $5-7k, push the button on the wall to start it, sit back & relax. Or pull into most any rv park, plug the cord into the 50 amp pedestal & done.

I'm with Danny and everyone else on this one. Having enough solar to "run everything all the time" is just not a reasonable expectation. We have a Raptor with 3 AC units, two batteries, a nice solar system, and a built in 5500 generator with 60 gallons of fuel on board. I would RARELY use the AC when boon docking - but on occasion, I have. I start the generator and turn on the AC. Doing this with solar is nigh on to impossible in my mind.

When boon docking, we open all the windows and capture the breeze. We can also run a couple of 120V electric fans using the inverter and batteries, especially during the day because the solar system helps power them.

[pineappleexpress]

Sorry for the confusion in my OP. I'm not looking to run everything constant or all at once, just enough juice to do the job for the time that is needed. I'm familiar with limiting the output as we do use it in the winter months running 120V heater to limit the propane use. And when we need to run the microwave we turn off the heater. Same goes for summer I'd assume. I'm just looking to get into a system to limit the fuel usage on a generator or eliminate fuel all together and ho with a solar generator.

I've been reading and watching lots of videos about the Bluettii AC200P and the Titan 4000 where the return rates are doing really well. I'm weighing my odds on weather it would be better to just integrate a solar system into the rig that does double duty (charges the 12v system & can power the shore power as needed) rather than a stand alone generator.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by pineappleexpress

Sorry for the confusion in my OP. I'm not looking to run everything constant or all at once, just enough juice to do the job for the time that is needed. I'm familiar with limiting the output as we do use it in the winter months running 120V heater to limit the propane use. And when we need to run the microwave we turn off the heater. Same goes for summer I'd assume. I'm just looking to get into a system to limit the fuel usage on a generator or eliminate fuel all together and ho with a solar generator.

I've been reading and watching lots of videos about the Bluettii AC200P and the Titan 4000 where the return rates are doing really well. I'm weighing my odds on weather it would be better to just integrate a solar system into the rig that does double duty (charges the 12v system & can power the shore power as needed) rather than a stand alone generator.

Without defining the bolded statements it would be impossible to assess your needs.

[Canonman]

I'm having trouble understanding how either of these solar generators make economic sense. $2k for the Bluettii up to $4k for the Titan. To me, these look like package products consisting of an expensive battery, multiple charger type inputs and an inverter for output. Just the old farm boy in me, but a simple generator and a can of gas does the same thing for a lot less $$$. I do understand the desire to not use a generator and associated fuel. We use a 200w solar kit for the same reason. We don't/can't run the A/C on that set up, but when we've needed to use the A/C, firing up the generator is pretty simple. Plus it charges the RV batteries at the same time.
As Mr. Covey once said "Seek first to understand" Can anyone help me understand the logic I seem to be missing?

[pineappleexpress]

Originally Posted by flybouy

Without defining the bolded statements it would be impossible to assess your needs.

As I'm sure you know it's is hard to define anything that is variable. Giving approximates in our "harshest case" scenarios would be running an A/C when it's in the upper 90s for a few hours or scenarios that limit us to being indoors needing to power refrigeration, space heat(120v) or A/C, water heater, tv, etc. Not necessarily all at the same time but could be needed.

But if I'm reading the responses correctly I need to pick my battles. Maybe use solar as my alternate for the everyday mid range usages and run a fuel generator for the high output items as needed?

[pineappleexpress]

Originally Posted by Canonman

I'm having trouble understanding how either of these solar generators make economic sense. $2k for the Bluettii up to $4k for the Titan. To me, these look like package products consisting of an expensive battery, multiple charger type inputs and an inverter for output. Just the old farm boy in me, but a simple generator and a can of gas does the same thing for a lot less $$$. I do understand the desire to not use a generator and associated fuel. We use a 200w solar kit for the same reason. We don't/can't run the A/C on that set up, but when we've needed to use the A/C, firing up the generator is pretty simple. Plus it charges the RV batteries at the same time.
As Mr. Covey once said "Seek first to understand" Can anyone help me understand the logic I seem to be missing?

I have a 3000w gas gen. but it is cheap, loud, overly heavy, old and chews up gas. Heading places parks that do not have shore power and what you can use for power and where is an issue as well as power conservation while boondocking. Yellowstone is one example we're finding that there is only one park that has shore power. Plus if you want to use a (gas) generator you are limited to certain areas due to noise. Now we aren't the types that really enjoys the typical community park. I prefer to camp in the back 40 while the wife likes to "glamp". Happy wife happy life so I'm trying to find the best of both worlds hence why we got into a fifth wheel rather than my 4 person tent. LoL

In order to run the A/C and a few other items I'm under the understanding that you'd need a 4k in a gas gen. Now, gas Hondas 3000W (barely enough power to run the a/c alone per their site) run about $2500 plus approx 8 yrs worth of gas consumed (life cycle timeframes of the solar kits). Now these run anywhere from 6-20hrs on a tank of gas(3.4 gal) continuously depending on the load. So for average sake we say 15hrs(for high efficiency rate) and you're on a 2 week trip and running it all day - 14days×3.4gals=47.6 gals @ $2.50/gal=$119 in fuel each trip. Do this 4x's yr = $476/yr ×8yrs= $3808(fuel)+$2500(gen)= $6308.

Plus the added benefit of solar is not running out of gas or having to carry the extra load of 50+ gallons of gas each trip.

[flybouy]

Plus the added benefit of solar is not running out of gas or having to carry the extra load of 50+ gallons of gas each trip.

And what's the plan if it rains for 4 days and is totally overcast for a few more? I'm sorry, but if you must have the air conditioner and all the other conveniences of home then go to a hotel. That's my opinion FWIW.

The simple fact is, with today's technology you could easily spend $10-$20K for a solar system that MIGHT run your a/c unit for a 24 hr stretch while illuminating the campsite like a used car lot and cooking on an induction cooktop. IOt would take little time to get an ROI on 2 inverter gensets running in parallel.

[Canonman]

Scott, I can understand better now what you are trying to accomplish. All I can say is good luck. I'm sure you and your missus will find a happy compromise. We did, and our simple set up works for us. Keep the Faith and Keep on Campin'

[Stircrazy]

Originally Posted by pineappleexpress

Sorry for the confusion in my OP. I'm not looking to run everything constant or all at once, just enough juice to do the job for the time that is needed. I'm familiar with limiting the output as we do use it in the winter months running 120V heater to limit the propane use. And when we need to run the microwave we turn off the heater. Same goes for summer I'd assume. I'm just looking to get into a system to limit the fuel usage on a generator or eliminate fuel all together and ho with a solar generator.
.

I am pretty much self sufficient with solar, barley and only for a week in the winter, but that is with four 6V 235ah batteries and 480 watts of solar. and the only way this works is if I get sun pretty much every day. in the fall I can let the kids watch one movie a night, make a pot of coffee in the morning and another one after supper and very limited microwave use as in I try not to use it at all but ya I can make microwave popcorn for the kids or heat up some left overs. I plan on increasing the solar pannels to 975 watts just so I can charge the batteries faster and dont need as much sun. But this only works becausee I uce propane for the water heater, furnace and fridge if I started using 110 for heat, hot water and such I would probably need tripple the batteries and pannels. and even then if you get a cloudy day you would have issues. propane is cheep and plentiful and does a much better job of heating the rig as it is vented through out. if you want to do the other stuff get a good generator or plug in then you can run AC also.

Steve

[RsPlace805]

Hello All,
Similar to Scott & Kellie....my wife and I are considering upgrading our "New 2021 Keystone Cougar Half-Ton TT 29RLSWE". I will definitely be installing a lithium deep cycle battery bank of at least three 100Ah, 12V LiFePO4 batteries for starters! The rig already has a 510W Zamp Solar array on the roof and a Xantrex Freedom X 2000W Inverter onboard.... now, I do not plan on running everything in our rig off of this system 24/7 (that's NOT possible)!! But I would prefer to boondock without worrying about draining lead acid or AGM batteries beyond the point of no return which is under 50% running out of fuel for a noisy generator all the time! So I'm curious why so many here seem to be against moving to lithium batteries and or solar? Seems like a no brainer, am i off base here??? Help me out but please be gentle ....LOL

Also, I plan on installing a Micro Air Easy Start on each of my AC units to help out a small Onan 2500i or the larger Onan 4500i generator if it becomes necessary ....(not that I plan on running them off of AC)!

[GHen]

Nearly Anything is possible if your budget is $30-50,000 in solar equipment. Probably need a 45 foot rig to mount all the solar panels to power the A/C.

I have settled on about $1000. With 300 watts of solar on the roof a couple 6 volt golf cart batteries and I normally can run the TV, satellite and the furnace overnight.

[bbells]

Just a note: My home, not camper, solar system provides about 27kwh a day. Some days a lot less, some more. This is 20 230w 24v panels. Even if I had enough batteries it could not run my AC for 24 hours. My camper solar provides roughly 1500wh a day (300w 12v panel total). This is more than enough for everything except the AC. Get a generator if you want AC. Oh, Never let your batteries deplete more than 50%. I would never let mine go lower than 70%, but they have never gone below 80%.

[sonofcy]

Originally Posted by pineappleexpress

More and more we've been looking into boondocking rather than the traditional parks & campgrounds since we like to get off the beaten path. In doing so Solar seems to be the way to go in being able to get continuous /sustainable power without having to drag along extra gas for a fuel fed generator.

We've been weeding out different options and reading extensively through the forum and other sites for recommendations, but haven't found an all decent answer for our issue/ concerns.

We'd like to try to maintain as much of the original system as possible and still be able to outfit the rig (2013 cougar 330RBK) with solar that can run everything in it. We've found that sourcing products that have ample power to be able to run the higher power items (AC, microwave, hairdryer, hot plates...etc) is proving challenging to get it all.

We've looked at switching over our 12v system from lead acid battery to 4- 12v LiFePO4(lithium iron phosphate) in series with a 48v all in one solar power system with a 12 v step down converter. Also considering to get a solar generator to power the high load items due to when the rig is on 12v it won't run anything except lighting really. With the all in one unit it does have the possibility for a 110v external power source.

Is it possible/safe to create the loop to use this 110v for the connection to the 50amp shore power instead of the generator? And will it be enough? Or is there a better cheaper way to maintain the original system while adding solar options?

The first thing you need to determine is what loads (Lights, Fridge, TV, etc) you want to use. A full energy audit means adding up the power used per day (watts x hours) to determine the size of your battery bank. I can tell you right now, AC is out and very occasional microwave. I have 4 12V LiFePO4 system and my 'normal' load is around 300 watts overnight, and 400 when we are awake. If I was boondocking, with no solar input my batteries will last about 24 hours IF I do not use the furnace and reduce the average to 200W. All I actually want is to last 12 hours if no sun so that I can use my one or 2 Honda EU2000's to recharge at 120AH per hour. Solar power availability is dependent on 3 things. Time of year, latitude and panel position (tilt and azimuth) you can do your own calculations at https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/pvwatts.php. For my 4x170W panels that means I get 2.7 to 3.4 kWh per day or about 1/2 + of my battery capacity. If I avg 200 watts 24 hrs per day then total daily is 4.8kWh or 100% of the batteries used up. This means that in that location and time of year I will need to top up with my generator every 2 days but realistically I would run the gennies first thing in the morning and last thing at night for at most 2 hrs. each time.
If you use AC only, then batteries last 3 hrs. I wired my inverter/charger into one leg of my 50A RV cord. The other leg is not usable when boondocking, it contains the washer, dryer, electric hot water, fireplace, bedroom AC and 1 empty slot where converter used to be. All the other RV circuits are on the inverter and I only had to move 2 wires to make that happen. I might add 2 more batteries and 2 more solar panels, but what I have now is usable. We have had 2 power outages of 4 to 12 hours so far this winter and barely noticed it. Of course I use all Victron components and Battle Borm batteries. I will be at a new site for 6 months starting next Oct that onyh has 30A hookups. With the power assist function I can still use 50 amps on L1 if needed but our normal setup will be 15+20 on L1 and 15 on L2. The washer dryer is the Italian Splendide and they are very low consumers of electricity. If you want to move ahead and want help, drop me a private message and we can work on it via email or any of the free meeting apps.

[Sokcap48]

Here is what I have-4 Trojan T145 batteries about 530 AH. We have 6-100 watt Renogy panels, 60 amp MPPT controller, 2,000 watt inverter. “ in good sunny weather”
We are in southern AZ. We went 8 days with no gen. But we are very conservative. Coffee pot in the morning, mid morning we recharge iPad-computers etc and about 3 hour of TV in the evening. If weather isn’t great your volts will be low in the morning.
We find it easier to run the gen in the evening if needed.

[Stircrazy]

Originally Posted by RsPlace805

Hello All,
I will definitely be installing a lithium deep cycle battery bank of at least three 100Ah, 12V LiFePO4 batteries for starters! The rig already has a 510W Zamp Solar array on the roof and a Xantrex Freedom X 2000W Inverter onboard.... now, I do not plan on running everything in our rig off of this system 24/7 (that's NOT possible)!! But I would prefer to boondock without worrying about draining lead acid or AGM batteries beyond the point of no return which is under 50%

not sure where everyone get this 50% for a deep cycle battery, they are safe being discharged down to a 80% depth of discharge but yes they last longer staying above 50% if I were you I wouold do more than 300 ah of Li, with my 6v deep cycles I have 374 ah available but I try to only use up to 230 which is about what 300ah of Li gives you. this is enough more than enough if you never have to run the furnace 24/7 when it is cloudy for a day or so, but you will be almost dead unless you are very very carfull with your use. start putting coffee pots and microwave and 3 hours of tv and you will be out of power fast. if I had to do it all over I would shoot for about 500 ah of usable capacity and I would put my solar up around 1000watts.

Steve