Keys: Less is More

[MarkEHansen]

Based on the instruction video referenced by the OP, it looks like you need a special "yellow" key (at $50) to remove the lock cylinders - but there was also a comment that it was easy to remove the lock cylinders. How can this be done without the special "yellow" key?

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by MarkEHansen

@LHaven - based on the video, you need to use one of their $50 yellow keys to remove the core. How did you get the old cores out without that "tool"?

Sorry for some reason I wasn't getting any notifications on this topic, so I didn't see this until now.

If you watch the video on how to change the lock, they explain what is special about the yellow key that makes it work. Once you understand that, about 10 seconds worth of thought will tell you how to do it without the yellow key. If not, order the cores anyway, and when they come in it will be immediately obvious to you how to make this work, plus you'll have a couple of naked cores to practice on.

[Brantlyj]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Like I said before, I bet it’s a matter of speed on the assembly line so the person at that stations grabs 1,2 or 3 entry locksets and doesn’t have time to “go digging” for matches sets. It would be a logistic issue trying to set up lock sets prior to a unit reaching that station.

The master and deadbolt already have to be matched sets. So instead of packing them in sets or two they could pack in sets of four. Really pretty simple on the manufacturing side and wouldn’t cost them a dime more.
What it probably comes down to is they know that if they have it mismatched they can sell an additional set of lock sets and the dealer gets some labor $$ as well.

[flybouy]

Brant, I don't think you understand how this works. The door handle (inside and out) is assembled at the factory with the cores installed, then shipped to Keystone as an assembly. Sort of like buying a lock set for your house.

I don't think selling keys is a high "high profit margin" item for the RV dealership.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by Brantlyj

The master and deadbolt already have to be matched sets. So instead of packing them in sets or two they could pack in sets of four.

No, the unit in question is the integrated door latch, which comes complete with both of those cores, and those two match by definition.

[chuckster57]

Changing out a lockset pays .5 at most, not much!! I can’t reveal how much the dealer makes on the parts but it isn’t much either.

NO manufacturer is in the kahoots with ANY dealer that I’m aware of so thinking that the factory is setting a dealer up to make money is simply not true. Spend some time in my shoes and you just might be suprised at how the RV industry actually operates.

[Brantlyj]

Originally Posted by flybouy

Brant, I don't think you understand how this works. The door handle (inside and out) is assembled at the factory with the cores installed, then shipped to Keystone as an assembly. Sort of like buying a lock set for your house.

I don't think selling keys is a high "high profit margin" item for the RV dealership.

Then they could pack them as two assembly’s to a package. This isn’t exactly rocket since for a manufacturer. I have 4 access doors plus the outside shower and they are all keyed the same. but the main doors are different from each other.
To me this is just another example of the RV industry not really caring about the end user and everyone just accepting it as status quo.

[Brantlyj]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Changing out a lockset pays .5 at most, not much!! I can’t reveal how much the dealer makes on the parts but it isn’t much either.

NO manufacturer is in the kahoots with ANY dealer that I’m aware of so thinking that the factory is setting a dealer up to make money is simply not true. Spend some time in my shoes and you just might be suprised at how the RV industry actually operates.

Perhaps, but being in distribution and manufacturing for 20 years I know for a fact that this situation is more common than not so the dealer can provide an up sell. In this case it’s either laziness or apathy as I know that it would not cost the rv builders nor the latch manufacturer any more money to provide them as a matched set.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by Brantlyj

I know for a fact that this situation is more common than not so the dealer can provide an up sell.

And you would have the wrong facts I’m sorry to say. RV dealers can choose which brands/lines they want to sell with the only restriction being geographic. The ONLY incentive that I know of, based on conversations with dealership owners is a discounted price per unit if multiple units are purchased from the factory. Maybe in other industries it is practiced, but I sure would like to see proof that it is part of the RV industry.

[sourdough]

Brantlyj, seems you have the RV industry figured out and know they are trying to "get to you". My thought would be why in the world would you buy something and then rant and rave about it when you seemingly knew what the animal was? If you want it, like it, buy it....deal with it IMO. Carrying on about a lockset on an RV you chose to buy is sort of like complaining someone didn't tie your shoes for you..... Not trying to be ugly but we all have some responsibility in buying what we do and making sure it is what we want. If it turns out we don't like something and we didn't check....where is that fault? Again, JMO.

[Brantlyj]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

And you would have the wrong facts I’m sorry to say. RV dealers can choose which brands/lines they want to sell with the only restriction being geographic. The ONLY incentive that I know of, based on conversations with dealership owners is a discounted price per unit if multiple units are purchased from the factory. Maybe in other industries it is practiced, but I sure would like to see proof that it is part of the RV industry.

I guess I didn’t clarify properly. Maybe that’s not the situation here. I’ll take your word for it being your on the inside so to speak, but it’s not unheard of in other instances.

[Brantlyj]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Brantlyj, seems you have the RV industry figured out and know they are trying to "get to you". My thought would be why in the world would you buy something and then rant and rave about it when you seemingly knew what the animal was? If you want it, like it, buy it....deal with it IMO. Carrying on about a lockset on an RV you chose to buy is sort of like complaining someone didn't tie your shoes for you..... Not trying to be ugly but we all have some responsibility in buying what we do and making sure it is what we want. If it turns out we don't like something and we didn't check....where is that fault? Again, JMO.

Dude, not sure why this bugs you so much. It’s a common theme for you. Like your personally offended that people that spend as much for an rv as they do for a car would expect a little pride and quality. I knew exactly what I was getting into however my wife and I both work two jobs. Anything we do extra I consider is X hours worked at the pt job. So yea, I like to get good value for my hard work.
You ranted and raved for a week about your new truck about how you couldn’t get the exact configuration you wanted and how you were kind of forced to buy up on features you didn’t want to get features you did want. That’s no different here and yet no one told you to get over it and accept that you had to shell out money for something you didn’t need or want.
Im not ranting and raving about a lock set. It’s $15. Big deal in the grand scheme of things. I read several posts that it’s impractical and too expensive for a manufacturer to providing matching lock sets and I’m just mentioning that it simply isn’t true based on my observation of how manufacturing works.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Brantlyj

...
Im not ranting and raving about a lock set. It’s $15. Big deal in the grand scheme of things. I read several posts that it’s impractical and too expensive for a manufacturer to providing matching lock sets and I’m just mentioning that it simply isn’t true based on my observation of how manufacturing works.

Just a suggestion: Have you considered contacting Keystone with your complaint? With your knowledge of merchandising and manufacturing, you could outline the problem, your suggested solutions and even detail, for Keystone, how little it would cost them, or even project increased sales based on improved customer satisfaction as an incentive for Keystone to adopt your suggestions....

Whether it's a "rant" a "rave" or just "bitching to be heard" trust me when I say that you'd be just as "well heard by someone who can make a difference" by walking into the middle of the forest and "screaming your head off" at each and every tree... They'll still be "swaying in the breeze, oblivious to your noise, long after you give up and go back home"..... Same with making suggestions of what Keystone ought to do that are posted on this forum.

[flybouy]

Maybe Keystone does this as a "safety" feature, after all, the auto industry had one key for the trunk and one for the ignition for many, many decades.

https://www.nytimes.com/1992/12/29/b...-unwanted.html

I cannot speak for Keystone but I can relate my experiences. In my past experience in industries including retail and restaurants (yes they are industries, they have highly mechanized, computer controlled distribution centers, commissaries etc. that can span several hundreds of thousands of Sq. ft.) time management is taken seriously.

Most large corporations either have in-house time management engineers or they regularly pay a firm that specializes in time management. Here's just one example... https://industrialtimestudy.com/timestudy-methods/ I linked this site as an example and do endorse them in any way.

It's simple math, if a company can save a "meager or insignificant" cost to you or I of $15 and they produce 10,000 units yearly then they can save $150,000 per year. So it's easy to see that all it takes is a cumulative savings that can reach 6 figures or more. That's profit right to the bottom line. Yes profit, they are after all doing this to make money, they are not 501 C 3 non profit organizations.

It seems obvious to me that having all the "simple" or little things" that irritate us would cumitavly increase the cost of the product that's most likely in their business model. So you can't buy a burger at McD's and expect a Ruth Crisp's steak even though they are both beef.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Carrying on about a lockset on an RV you chose to buy is sort of like complaining someone didn't tie your shoes for you..... Not trying to be ugly but we all have some responsibility in buying what we do and making sure it is what we want. If it turns out we don't like something and we didn't check....where is that fault?

To be completely fair, before I bought this rig, I would no more have dreamed that someone would sell me an RV that had two differently keyed doors than I would have dreamed that Ford would sell me a tow vehicle that had two differently keyed doors. I would no more have checked for this at walkthrough than I would have checked inside the water heater for mice. I will say after learning that this is common practice in the industry, it has lowered my bar for the phrase "common sense" when speaking about the RV industry.

[Brantlyj]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Just a suggestion: Have you considered contacting Keystone with your complaint? With your knowledge of merchandising and manufacturing, you could outline the problem, your suggested solutions and even detail, for Keystone, how little it would cost them, or even project increased sales based on improved customer satisfaction as an incentive for Keystone to adopt your suggestions....

Whether it's a "rant" a "rave" or just "bitching to be heard" trust me when I say that you'd be just as "well heard by someone who can make a difference" by walking into the middle of the forest and "screaming your head off" at each and every tree... They'll still be "swaying in the breeze, oblivious to your noise, long after you give up and go back home"..... Same with making suggestions of what Keystone ought to do that are posted on this forum.

I was just trying to have a conversation and offering of a differing of opinion. Not really sure why that warranted the attitude.
Seems a common theme here though. Someone asks about proper weights and it’s all roses. The word quality is spoken and the Site Team swoops in and tells the person to just get over it, and most time pretty harshly.

[Northofu1]

No one ever had a beer (or 3) with a coworker bitching about work?
Sometimes the natives are restless, it's a long winter for some.
The tree thing is good, it will never stare at you with that fly catching mouth gape.
Ok, Carry on as if you were normal

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Brantlyj

I was just trying to have a conversation and offering of a differing of opinion. Not really sure why that warranted the attitude.
Seems a common theme here though. Someone asks about proper weights and it’s all roses. The word quality is spoken and the Site Team swoops in and tells the person to just get over it, and most time pretty harshly.

My point is, NOBODY on this site can "fix your problem". The problem is that YOU are frustrated with what KEYSTONE is doing.... That's a "problem between YOU AND KEYSTONE"

Yelling about it here (or even discussing it rationally here) will not resolve the issue. It's simply "hot air fanning the inferno".

If you "want" to work on fixing it, contact Keystone, If you want to "bitch about it" feel free to do so (as long as it doesn't violate the forum rules), but know "deep down in your soul" that it's all a "wasted effort" because Keystone doesn't read this site, has never joined this site, won't respond on this site and "won't hear your bitchin".

In other words, you're wasting your time by complaining about it here, the effort won't affect change, so the effort is "akin to screaming at trees".....

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Northofu1

No one ever had a beer (or 3) with a coworker bitching about work?
Sometimes the natives are restless, it's a long winter for some.
The tree thing is good, it will never stare at you with that fly catching mouth gape.
Ok, Carry on as if you were normal

Yeap (3 or 6 or 9), and invariably, once that coworker has his final beer and passes out, someone will remark, "He'll wake up and probably not even remember what he said, who's turn is it to buy the next round?" …. and the world keeps turning, the sun will come up tomorrow and "coworker" will have one hell of a headache while the boss didn't hear anything he said, nothing at work will change and next Friday, if he's "keyed to bitch" we'll hear it all over again...….

[Northofu1]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Yeap (3 or 6 or 9), and invariably, once that coworker has his final beer and passes out, someone will remark, "He'll wake up and probably not even remember what he said, who's turn is it to buy the next round?" …. and the world keeps turning, the sun will come up tomorrow and "coworker" will have one hell of a headache while the boss didn't hear anything he said, nothing at work will change and next Friday, if he's "keyed to bitch" we'll hear it all over again...….