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Old 01-27-2021, 07:43 PM   #1
Traindude
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Pin box

I am sure this has been asked before, I am thinking about upgrading my pin box for a smoother ride. This what I am thinking of going with. https://store.lci1.com/m15-flex-air-...bs-328484.html
Be interested if anyone has this pin box or others with an upgraded pin box that might not be as spendy.
I know nothing on this what size to get pound wise or if I need it for long jaw or medium jaws. I have a curt q20 hitch if that helps. My 5th wheel is a 2016 cougar 279rkswe . As always any advice is welcome and thank you.
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Old 01-27-2021, 08:06 PM   #2
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Had it on my last 5er & it worked very well. You'll have do trial/error as to what pressure works best for your setup, matching the arrows on the shock for mine was too stiff.
If you contact Lippert with the 5er you have & if I recall there's a model number on your existing box that they can use to give you the correct part number
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Old 01-27-2021, 08:39 PM   #3
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There is no need to have a pin box like that for a 10,000# GVWR 5er. Check your pin weight, see if you can get it in the 22% range, likely too lite.
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Old 01-28-2021, 04:41 AM   #4
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You will probably get a better price from Etrailer. Doesn't hurt to check. And as stated before there should be a model number on your current pinbox that will help you find a new on that will fit.
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Old 01-28-2021, 06:06 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traindude View Post
I am sure this has been asked before, I am thinking about upgrading my pin box for a smoother ride. This what I am thinking of going with. https://store.lci1.com/m15-flex-air-...bs-328484.html
Be interested if anyone has this pin box or others with an upgraded pin box that might not be as spendy.
I know nothing on this what size to get pound wise or if I need it for long jaw or medium jaws. I have a curt q20 hitch if that helps. My 5th wheel is a 2016 cougar 279rkswe . As always any advice is welcome and thank you.
Well I think you can spend your money a bit more wisely than a $1,600 pin box. You posted in another thread that you are towing this 5er with a 2001 F350 SRW, so no issue with TV size.
What ride issues are you having, chucking on bridge transitions or rough roads, too much bounce.

does your TV have good shocks?
Do you have shocks on the 5er?
Does the 5er tow level?
Do you have weights? Weights will help determine if you have enough pin weight, should be about 22%.
The pin box you are looking at is nice if you are towing a 16,000# 5er, but I just don't see the need on a 10,320# GVWR 5er.

These are the specs for your 5er.

2016 Keystone Cougar Half-Ton 279RKSWE Specifications
Technical Specifications :
Length 30' 2"
Dry Weight 7,550#
Payload Capacity 2,770#
GVWR 10,320#
Hitch Weight 1,520#
Dry pin % 20%
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Old 01-28-2021, 06:15 AM   #6
chuckster57
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My fiver is 10240 GVWR. I went from a solid pin box to the Rota flex and it was a vast improvement. Unless you have back issues, I wouldn’t buy the one your looking at. JMO, YMMV.
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Old 01-28-2021, 06:21 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by chuckster57 View Post
My fiver is 10240 GVWR. I went from a solid pin box to the Rota flex and it was a vast improvement. Unless you have back issues, I wouldn’t buy the one your looking at. JMO, YMMV.
Interesting, even when towing the Copper Canyon with the 2001 Ram 2500 I solved my chucking and rough ride issues with leveling the 5er while connected, Bilstein shocks on the TV and shocks on the 5er, it towed smooth. Now with the 2016 Ram 3500 DRW, don't feel it at all.

I guess I am a fix the root cause, not mask the conditions.
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Old 01-28-2021, 06:46 AM   #8
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I do have air bags. When I bought the truck in 2008 it was hauling the Jayco in sig. no bags and it sat just off the overloads so every bump made it bounce. Air bags fixed that, and I probably don’t really need them now. I got the pin box for a very good price when a customer took it off for the trail air because of his back surgeries. He had a 40’ Solitude that was HEAVY.
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Old 01-28-2021, 07:19 AM   #9
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I have the Cougar XLite 27RKS. It's the "east coast version" of the Cougar Half Ton 279RKSWE. In other words, with the exception of a "relocated cabinet and one more recliner, the same trailer.

I do not "normally" have any chucking issues, but with the fresh water tank (located in the extreme rear of the trailer) full and 300+/- pounds of trailer tongue (for the boat or motorcycle when double towing), I do get some chucking. I attribute it directly to low pin weight.

The trailer, as it sits from the factory, weighs around 7550, Pin weight is 1520. That's a 20% pin weight on the empty trailer. At GVW 10320, that same 1520 is right at 14%. Depending on loading (rear kitchens have almost all the storage behind the axles) the pin weight percentage may well stay below 20%.

Having a "light pinweight" is one of the most common causes for chucking. While I don't know if this is the problem since none of us know how he loads his trailer, I do agree with Russ. The first thing I'd do is roll across a CAT scale and see "just where the weight is located. For me, if we're heading out for a long trip with the boat or motorcycle, I only put a few gallons of water in the fresh tank and fill the front gray tank to increase pin weight. It makes a remarkable difference.

Like Russ, that's a lot of money to "mask a problem" without actually fixing it.
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Old 01-28-2021, 05:08 PM   #10
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First off let me say thank you for all the responses. I am not looking to just mask this problem but solve it. To be honest I can’t tell you if it bouncing or if more of a jerking back and fourth. Seeing how this 5er fits me and the wife this will hopefully be the last rv we buy, so I don’t mind spending some money(but want to spend Wisely) on this to make just they way we want. Now on my tv I have fairly new shocks very little to no bounce when I am not towing. The 5er does not have any on it. I don’t know the pin weight. That will be something I do before I purchase anything(any links on how to do this would be great).I have only had this 5er for about 4 months and only taken it out twice. When I do load up don’t usually load heavy haven’t even put water in the freshwater tank yet. When I am towing everything seems level. I understand that this is different setup but with my tt I used wdh and did not have any issues. Again thank you all for your input and helping this newbie to 5th wheels out
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Old 01-28-2021, 07:07 PM   #11
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First, if I were you, I'd locate a CAT scale, go there, park and go inside to talk to the weighmaster. Tell him/her what you're wanting to do so they know the objective. You'll need 2 weights. First, drive onto the pads at the scale with the front truck axle on pad1, the rear truck axle on pad 2 and the trailer axles on pad 3. It's easy to tell what pad is what when you approach the scale. Press the button to tell the weighmaster you're set. He will tell you when to drive off the scale. Go to some place clear of the scales, disconnect the trailer, drive back onto the scale pads with truck front axle on pad 1 and rear axle on pad 2. Press the button, get the weight and all clear, drive off the scale and go inside to get your weight slips. It'll be $12 for the first weigh and $2 for the second weigh. Those slips will allow you to determine all the weights you'll need.

First will be total rig weight from weight #1.
front axle weight "loaded"
rear axle weight "loaded"
trailer axles "loaded".

Second will be "truck weight" unloaded''
Front axle weight "unloaded"
rear axle weight "unloaded"

From those, you can subtract the truck total weight from slip #2 from the total truck weight from slip #1 to determine the pin weight.

Add the pin weight and the trailer axle weight for the total trailer weight.
Divide the pin weight by the total trailer weight to get the "Pin weight percentage"

Those should be all the weights you need to make decisions on loading, hitch weight/selection/adjustments and to identify any "excessive or extremely light pin weight as well as any overloaded axles on the truck or trailer.

Once you get those two weight slips (truck/trailer hitched and truck alone) if you have any quesitons or problems, just post them here.

ADDED: Do you have a "thick teflon disc" on the trailer pin? They are about 1/4" thick. If you don't have a disc, that may be a significant part of your problem. The disc not only "slicks up the hitch pad/pinbox bottom" but it also takes up about 1/4" of the "slop in the hitch union".... That's very often enough to stop any chucking.
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Old 01-28-2021, 07:16 PM   #12
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Traindude, you live in Oregon, you can also go to a closed ODOT weigh station and weigh your truck and trailer. Most have enough room to drop the 5er and weigh just the axles on the TV unloaded. They have displays that you can read from the cab of the TV.
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Old 01-28-2021, 08:08 PM   #13
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^^^ Yep, what Russ said... Just remember "you can use a CLOSED (not an open) DOT weigh station scale.... I wouldn't recommend getting in a line of 18 wheelers that are trying to get weighed and back on the road.... DOT weighmasters aren't real happy when that happens...... When they're closed, you're free to use the scales and "dilly around all you want"....
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Old 01-28-2021, 08:29 PM   #14
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Pulling into a State scale house in Maryland might not end so well. The "old ones" on US 40 are mostly closed and blocked off but if you pull into one on the interstate (I95 or I70) you'll likely be greeted by a State Trooper that will run you off unless their citation book is in need of use.
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Old 01-28-2021, 08:40 PM   #15
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Yes there is one in cottage grove.
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Old 01-29-2021, 05:22 AM   #16
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Yes there is one in cottage grove.
Just keep in mind the weights are in I believe 50# increments not down to the single pound like CAT scales. You do need to take the time to really let the truck and/or trailer to settle to get a good reading.
I have found the weekends to be the best time to find them closed, but I have also seen them open on the weekends.
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Old 01-29-2021, 06:00 AM   #17
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Finding a closed DOT scale is a plus, but looking at it realistically, the need to know (before spending $1600 on a pinbox) justifies the $14 expense to get accurate weights as soon as possible.

You didn't respond to whether you're using a teflon disc on your fifth wheel pin. Many people don't use one and most didn't even know it exists. They are not a gimmick, but rather, for almost everyone, a "vital requirement" both for chucking and for hitch pad/pinbo surface wear.
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Old 01-29-2021, 06:17 AM   #18
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Finding a closed DOT scale is a plus, but looking at it realistically, the need to know (before spending $1600 on a pinbox) justifies the $14 expense to get accurate weights as soon as possible.

You didn't respond to whether you're using a teflon disc on your fifth wheel pin. Many people don't use one and most didn't even know it exists. They are not a gimmick, but rather, for almost everyone, a "vital requirement" both for chucking and for hitch pad/pinbo surface wear.
I had to chuckle a couple months ago I went to the local RV dealerships parts store. As I went to pay here is a tube of Amzoil 5th wheel plate grease! Priced at $12.99, I ask if it is a big seller, no, most realize the plate is the same cost and way cleaner!
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Old 01-29-2021, 06:36 AM   #19
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I had to chuckle a couple months ago I went to the local RV dealerships parts store. As I went to pay here is a tube of Amzoil 5th wheel plate grease! Priced at $12.99, I ask if it is a big seller, no, most realize the plate is the same cost and way cleaner!
Yep, I think I paid $5.99 for my last one (and I bought a spare). It is white/cream colored teflon. The parts manager said the new ones that came in were black and nobody was buying the white ones, so they put them on clearance to get rid of them. If I was wearing them, I'd probably want them to match my Nike or my Levi's or my American Eagle boxers, but we're talking about a piece of plastic that's never even seen.... Yet people "pick and choose the color".... I thought to myself as we were talking, I wonder how many people refused to buy black or white and are still looking for a blue one or a red one to match their truck. Sometimes people are, well, hard to figure out.....
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Old 01-29-2021, 06:43 AM   #20
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And they come in different sizes (diameters)
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