Let's talk suspension.........

[Raptor Dave]

I have 2 Dexter axles rated @ 7000 ea
Spoke with Dexter and have been told that those axles came with 3500# springs.
All they could tell about them was double eye with 6 leafs and 26" eye center to eye center.
I was trying to get some type of idea what the arch was supposed to be on fresh springs. They didn't have that info?
I'm not 100% confident I'm getting correct info. The trailer is unloaded but sitting on the tires and when I measure the springs with just trailer weight, eye to eye is 26". I'm thinking because of this weight it should measure a little longer based on everything I've researched.
I've looked at a lot of replacement springs in this rating class that measure 25.25 eye to eye.
I'd like to get a little more arch in some new springs than what is left in the old ones. They're already looking a little flat to me.
I've read a few articles about overseas spring steel not being very quality and having longevity. Dexter did tell me the axles would have come with their springs. From what I've read they do make their own in a factory down in the Lone Star. I don't know this for fact but if I had to guess, they may make them there but not sure of the steel source. I didn't ask because again I'm not 100% confident in the answer.

I have the CRE3000 between the axles. What is the opinion on being able to just put springs rated @ 3500 and 25.25 long on this set up? Or am I looking at trouble.
I'm being told by what I would consider a credible source one thing and looking for some more input.

Also, what is the opinion of possibly moving up to 4000# rated springs?

I've found yay's and nay's on both of these subjects across the internet.
Looking for a few more that may have personal experience with either subject.

[sourdough]

You're in the middle of a situation that I've noted for a long time; lots of trailer, little axle - I was in the same boat. For some reason they undersize the axles and try to deduct the pin weight (or more) from the load although half the time the trailer is moving the entire load of the trailer is on those 4 wheels. So just to start; the empty weight of the 352 is over 14k lbs. - over what your axles are rated for which is not good. For me I would stop right there and put on 8k axles with 4k lb. springs per axle (gvwr of trailer is 17k). No sense in putting 4k springs (8k total per axle) when all you have is a 7k axle.

[Raptor Dave]

Yea when you start looking at and running the numbers you think to yourself WTF!

[JRTJH]

I upgraded my trailer axles from "Lippert 5200 pound axles that were derated by keystone to 4400 pounds"... Keystone did that so they could install 15" LRD tires and still be over the axle limit... It's their game with the numbers to save a few bucks on each trailer...

Anyway, when I was looking at upgrading to 5200 pound axles with 2550 pound springs, I was also looking for someone to do the work. I called Michael Barnett at Performance Trailer Braking to ask the questions and to see if they had any installers to do the hydraulic/disc brake conversion in this area.
They don't work in northern Michigan, but he did offer me some very accurate recommendations. You might shoot him an email at <[email protected]>, explain your situation, see what he has to offer and even if they don't have anyone in your area to do a conversion, he can give you some "professional, this is how we'd do it" type guidance. I believe they are the people who installed Danny's brake/axle conversion as well as a couple other member's trailer brake conversions...

Can't hurt to at least ask him. He's in the business and knows his stuff.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Raptor Dave

Yea when you start looking at and running the numbers you think to yourself WTF!

When you get to larger trailers the desire of the manufacturers to save money on suspensions becomes more noticeable. Back when, with smaller trailers sometimes the axle/spring capacities were well above the gvwr of the trailer. Not so with the newer larger trailers.

You've got a 23 model. Mine is a 20 and after approx. 1 year of running the OE suspension I just could not accept axles/springs that wouldn't cover the gvwr of the trailer so I bought new 7k axles (6k OE), 3500lb. spring packs, Xfactors, HD shackles, wet bolts, disc brakes...you name it due to my concerns I always have of RV manufacturers going cheap.

Lots of folks run the trailer you have with the OE suspension. Maybe they have issues, maybe not. Maybe they know it, maybe not. The issue, in my mind, is when a component has X capacity rating that's it. Some folks say 'well there's got to be a built in fudge factor" etc. - find that in print...it's not. So we have the option of running with what came (when obviously undersized components) and hoping for the best - thousands do without issue I suppose, but then others find those hangers, shackles, springs, axles etc. damaged/broke all the time. I opt to do what I can to eliminate the possibility of a suspension failure on an interstate at 65mph. Is it a PITA? Absolutely.

[sourdough]

Dave some clarification on my comments above. I went straight to what I would do, not what everyone needs to do.

As far as the axles vs trailer weight. Specs on the trailer say it is 14,212 dry with a pin weight of 3400 lbs. Doing the math on that says there's 10,812 sitting on the axles dry so therefore a bit under the 12k max of the OE axles/springs. It's also approx. 24% of the dry weight. It's a toy hauler so the more you place in that garage the more it takes from the pin weight transferring additional weight to the axles. How much? Only a scale will tell.

Are pulling a time bomb? Probably not. Does it warrant checking closely? Yes. If your springs are flattening on a 1 year old trailer take it to a scale and see what you've got. It could be overloaded somewhere. Look at what's loaded where to see if there is an obvious imbalance.

Replacing 3500lb springs with 4k (8k total) springs on 7k lb. axles is just masking a problem. If it IS actually overloaded you transfer that from the springs to the axles so it's a no win situation.

Just wanted to give a little context to my comments above as they sort of sounded like you had an urgent, "don't move the trailer until it's fixed" which it probably isn't - but a trip to the scales would go a long way to figuring out what's going on. Best of luck.

[Raptor Dave]

No problems with any suggestions or comments made. That's why I started this thread was to get some input from the bleacher section.
What I do have a problem with is why as consumers are we put in situations like this. I know the longer I own this trailer the more I learn about trailer manufacturing and how they do things to slight the end user.
It's really starting to piss me off.
With the money we have invested in these trailers you would think we shouldn't have to or need to "upgrade" the entire suspension system to not be worried about traveling down the road to have an enjoyable weekend or summer.
The whole situation is really just mind boggling to me.
I have a real struggle after buying something brand new and then needing to throw another 6 to 10K at it to make it the way it should have been done in the first place.

There's no hurries to do something. We're done for the season. I just need to figure out which direction I'm gonna go with this.

[workinonit]

I'm in the same boat. Empty is no issue but loaded is 1500 pounds over. What bothers me is their assumption that weight is distributed evenly on the two axles. And the fact that's a dynamic number when the trailer is mobile.

[NMRandy]

I have a toy hauler that has a Lippert frame, and (2) 8000 lb. axles, built in 2020. The original tires were Gladiator G rated tires. The right side tires wore on the outside badly in just a few thousand miles. I took the trailer to a trailer shop and had the axles aligned, and replaced all of the tires with all steel, G rated tires from Discount tire. A few thousand miles later I found the right side tires were wearing on the outside again. I took it back to the trailer repair and they found the alignment was out again. I asked why he thought this was happening, and he responded the axles were too light. I explained the axles were rated for 8k. He thought they were 7k axles. He took a second look and told me the tube size on his 8k axles was larger than what I had. He stated if this happens again, I will need to replace the axles with better quality axles.

[Raptor Dave]

7K axles are 3" dia
8K axles are 3.5

At least everything I have looked at and researched in the past week.

[Andyjstewart]

Interesting discussion, much like what I am going through but with a lighter trailer after I experienced a bent axle. Trailer repair suggested I upgrade axles, springs, wheels and tires before any long trips.

[Hoopy Frood]

I did a lot of searching and looking when I replaced my 3,500 lb. rated springs with 4,000 lb. rated springs. I was frustrated when trying to nail down the actual measured length of the springs. I found that not all shops list the length of the springs the same, even though they are the same. What you get is unloaded length of 24 3/4" eye-to-eye, and loaded length of 26 1/4" eye-to-eye. They are the same springs, just listed differently. These are the normal dimension for Dexter and Lippert springs.

Our trailer, a 2019 Grand Design FWIW, had the option of ordering it from the factory with 8,000 lb. axles. So even though I still have the 7,000 lb. axles, I'm not worried about the frame not being able to handle the heavier duty springs. You might check and see if your trailer had that option from the factory. Personally I would get the trailer weighed and see what you're dealing with before deciding which springs to go with.

I believe the loaded arch dimension is 1 3/4".

[gmcbride]

Interesting thread. We bought our 352 new, drove to San Antonio and replaced all the tires with Goodyears. This year when we got back we had to replace the two on the front axle. Several months ago I found a broken spring. Replaced the spring, four new 17.5" wheels/tires and heading to Elkhard this Friday for hydraulic brakes and a suspension upgrade. Yes, the trailer is heavy weighing in @ 17,000 pounds, 13K on the tires. 8,000# axles should solve this once and for all! You get what you pay for and I guess $115,000 just isn't enough!

[Raptor Dave]

I did a lot of searching and looking when I replaced my 3,500 lb. rated springs with 4,000 lb. rated springs. I was frustrated when trying to nail down the actual measured length of the springs. I found that not all shops list the length of the springs the same, even though they are the same. What you get is unloaded length of 24 3/4" eye-to-eye, and loaded length of 26 1/4" eye-to-eye. They are the same springs, just listed differently. These are the normal dimension for Dexter and Lippert springs.

Isn't that the truth. Exact same springs listed in different places with different specs. I even called and talked with Dexter. They claim the springs on my axles would have came with the axles from them and she told me that they measured 26" eye to eye from the factory. I have a hard time believing this because with the trailer setting empty on the tires they measure 26".
Unless I'm missing something I would think if they were 26" to start and with the weight of the trailer on them that they would measure longer eye to eye?
I even talked to places selling them and get different reasons for measurements being listed different.
I've spoke with several places that sell springs and axles and the general agreement among them has been moving up from 3500 to 4000 on 7000 lb axles is not unheard of. Even if one were to make the leap to 8K axles it would not change the GVWR on the trailer. Supposedly what's on the sticker is on the sticker. Again this makes no sense but this is what I was told.
Obviously one would have a more stout piece and larger brakes but the brakes I have on the 7K axles do a fine job.