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Old 07-18-2021, 07:51 PM   #1
simon_1290
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Guy from Ottawa

Hello guys,

My name is Simon, I am swiss but I live on Ottawa since 2014.
I registered here because we are (my wife, my 9 months old son and myself) thinking to buy a Hideout 176bh. We love the floorplan and we are looking as a small unit.
I also saw a Sportsmen 181bh and a Coachmen Apex (all have similar floorplan).

Why the hideout ? The dealer has 2 in stock (other are on order only) and this is the dealer that I have the better feeling with.

We love camping, but with the little boy it has been a average experience so far. Also my wife and myself want a little more comfort. We were thinking about a cottage but we feel that we will be stuck to go to the same spot all the time. And we love to travel and do road trip..

Before posting here, I did a lot of research and I understand that I have to expect some problems/work/maintenance on the trailer even if it is new, and that apply to almost all the brands. I try to don't take in consideration the reviews so much since almost all brands have bad and good reviews.

I also understand that it may be better to buy something in stock and make sure that everything is working properly before signing anything.

Other problems, is that now I don't have a vehicle capable to tow 3700lbs (weight of that hideout). But we are looking for a replacement for our Toyota Corolla which will be a car that will give us more room for the boy and also capable to tow our new trailer.
Thinking about a Jeep Cherokee (3.2l) that can tow 4500lbs, but it seems to be a bit more complex than this ..

Anyways, happy to be here and looking forward to hearing about some of your advices on the unit and about the towing questions.

Cheers,
Simon
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Old 07-19-2021, 03:38 AM   #2
spicercars
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Old 07-19-2021, 04:16 AM   #3
wiredgeorge
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Howdy from Texas Simon. You noted the dry weight of the Hideout but you will want to take in consideration it will be loaded and use the gross weight (unloaded weight plus max payload). In this case, the most that trailer can carry is just over 700 lbs so you are looking at a 4500 pound trailer fully loaded. You will really be stressing a Jeep Cherokee's towing capability with that trailer. Perhaps a crew cab pickup would be more appropriate? Anyway, best of luck and travel safe.
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Old 07-19-2021, 04:22 AM   #4
flybouy
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Welcome to the forum. This is the place to find out the truth even if it might suprise you. You are starting out doing the right thing (comming here) and the wrong thing (looking at the wrong numbers).

Wrong numbers you say? Why? Here's the issue with the "published" towing numbers by the auto industry. The "max towing" numbers are derived by towing a low center of gravity trailer with a low center of gravity weight on it. That trailer would have the majority of weight over the axles resulting in very little weight CARRIED by the tow vehichle. The "max towing" number is tottaly irrelevant to towing a tall box with high center of gravity and a lot of wind resistance. Typically you'll exceed one of the other ratings before you ever exceed the max tow rating.

OTHER NUMBERS?. There are several weight limits that are listed on the vehicle's driver side door and or door jamb. Those are: max vehicle Weight or GVWR, max combined (vehichle plus trailer) or GCWR, max front axle weight or GFAW, max rear axle weight or GRAW, and most importantly the Max payload rating. The payload number is the number to concern yourself with as this is the number you will approach and exceed first.

What is max payload and where do I find it? First, it's listed on the yellow and white sticker that has the tire inflation numbers on it. Right above those tire inflation numbers is a statement that " all passangers and payload cannot exceed xxxx lbs." That number is derived by taking the GVWR and subtracting the weight when built, the remainderbis the payload number, or how much more weight you can add before exceeding the GVWR. Isn't that nice of them to do that math for you? So here's the imprtant thing, that payload number is of course calculated at the factory so ANYTHING you, the dealer, or another shop insralls or places in or on that vehichle REDUCES the payload. So add those fancy floor msts, install a hitch and ball, the weight of the family, pets, drinks, snaks, and even the change in the center console is part of that payload number. SUV'S typically don't have much payload but more on that later.

Trailer weight, what's important? First what's NOT realistic is the "ekpty weight" or "shipping weight" that you quoted. First of all, that number is irrelevant the day the dsaler preps the trailer gor sale. Like a truck the weight was when it left the factory. Ulike a car it does not include the battery, the spare tire, or propane indide the LP tanks. The dealer intalls these items jot the manufacturer. Secondly that foes not include the stuff you will put in the camper. Necessary to items just to use the camper are items like wheel chocks, water hose, drain hose, electric ectension cord, etc. Then what about food, drink, something to eat on, cook the food with? How about cloths, linens, cleaners, entertainment, outside chairs? The list goes on ghe weight goes up. The published tongue weights are also useless. Again, calculated at the factory with mo battery and no LP in the tanks. Tuose 2 items are located at the very front of the trailer on the tongue. Sobwhat to do? Obviously you can't load up and weight a trailer you don't own so for estimating use the trailer max weight rating or the GTWR. You will be closer to that number than the "empty" number. For the trailer you listed that's 4,500 lbs. The tongue weight of travel trailers is typicall 10% to 15% of the trailer weight which for estimating use the max gross trailer weight. So we will use the middle of that range which is 13%. So estimated tongue weight is 13 * 4,500 = 585 lbs. Remember that number.

With a 21' camper you'll need a hood weight distributing hitch with intergral sway control, a good 4 point hitch would be necessary behing an SUV to help control sway.that hitch will weigh about 120 lbs so add that to the estimated tongue weight of 585 lbs. So now you're going to plop down 700 lbs. on the back of that tow vehichle.

So now we've established an estimated tongue weight we beed to look at several considerations when choosing a tow vehichle. First is payload. My suggestion is take your current vehichle (I know, you won't use it for towing but hear me out) and pretend you are going camping. Load it up, family, pets, snaks, drinks, everything. Make it as real as you can then take it to the scales and weigh it. Now take that weigh slip and subtract that number from that vehicle GVW to find out what everything weights. Add that number to the estimated 700 lbs. Tongue weight for an estimated load that you will need to accomondate. If the current vehile load is say 400 lbs. Then add 700 + 400 for 1,100 lbs. If say the SUV has a max load capacity of 1,200 lbs then you are near it's limit and that's not desirable. A common misteak is thinking "I'm a few pounds under the limit so I'm good". That's like saying the speed limit is 65 so a car with a maximum speed of 65 will do. Not logical right?

Another issue with SUV'S is the short wheel base. The trailer will sway even with a good hitch as the forces of wind on that slab sided box act a a big lever on the back. The wind, the "wake" from large trucks passing or you passjng them. Then there's driver induced sway from lane changes or abrupt steering inputs while avoiding objects. Another consideration is the frame, or lack of kne on SUV'S. If the vehichle is a unibody then it's jot strong enough to use a weight distributing hitch. If it isn't strong enough for the hitch should it be towing a camper? Not in my mind.

IMHO that camper should be pulled by a 1/2 ton truck. It would be a far safer and less stressful experience towing. SUVS have their purpose and are great people movers and not great towing machines for campers. They can tow other trailers well incuding a small utility trailer or a jet ski but as far as campers are concerned they are sutanle for pop-ups or RPod type csmpers.

Hope this helps and good luck on your search for new adventures
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Old 07-19-2021, 05:05 AM   #5
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Hello and welcome to the forum.
Happy camping
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Old 07-19-2021, 07:50 AM   #6
simon_1290
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Thank you guys! The warm welcomes means a lot.

I appreciated also the advices. Particularly yours flybouy
I will look at the number more closely, as I mentioned I knew that it was more complex than just how much the vehicle can tow.
At the end of the day I want to keep my family safe.

I may open other topics on the correct section.

Cheers,
Simon
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Old 07-19-2021, 11:18 AM   #7
Sarge2
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Welcome from Michigan... you can rely on that info from Flybouy... they want you to be safe while towing that family around..
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Old 07-19-2021, 01:21 PM   #8
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Old 07-20-2021, 05:51 AM   #9
simon_1290
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Thank you guys
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Old 07-20-2021, 05:54 AM   #10
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Welcome and enjoy most important be safe
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Old 07-20-2021, 09:26 PM   #11
Brentw
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Welcome. Marshal has given you a pile of information to digest. Glad that you have the inclination that it is not so simple as it first appears and you are getting advice. I will just add that towing an rv with a short wheel base Suv would be a challenge. Borrowed my wife's little rig (rated at 4000 lbs), put about 3000 lbs behind it on a small utility trailer, that little car had her azz full. Wouldn't make a habit out of that.
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Old 07-23-2021, 06:31 PM   #12
Gary R.
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Hello Simon! Welcome to you and your family!

You have found the best forum for the best advice on any question concerning a RV.

Have fun and take care!
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Old 08-03-2021, 06:26 AM   #13
mjsibe
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Tow vehicle

Welcome Simon,
Flybouy has it nailed down.
Perfect advice.
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Old 08-03-2021, 08:05 AM   #14
KJMB01
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Hi,

Also from Ottawa.
We started with a 25 foot tow behind using an SUV. Quickly changed to 1/2 ton pickup. Found the SUV was not stable enough.
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