How New RVrs get Mislead On Towing Weights - Page 2

Bill-2020 · 06-27-2021, 06:25 PM

There have been many articles in that publication over the years that directly contradict wrong from right in the towing world - as do some manufacturer’s commercials.

DieselMike · 06-27-2021, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halcyon

I also just saw an advertisement in RV Magazine, pages 8/9, from Chevy showing a new 2500 ( look carefully at the side) towing a three axle Fuzion 5er…

It also appears to be a HighCountry Edition Z71 4wd SRW with all the bells and whistles - read extra weight. No wonder we are confused!!!

I read for hours and hours and for many days, you must read all of the details in your state.
In PA, which is like many other states, you must review and verify if you require a None CDL drivers licence to tow over 26001 lbs combined AND towing over 10001 lbs trailer.

If you have an accident, and your not correctly licensed, you could be dropped with e ZERO insurance. There is such a mis-conception about this and after lots of reading, and confirmation from PA State police, it is correct. So please check you local state requirements. The RV dealer will play dumb... PERIOD.

Good luck, and be safe towing.

rhagfo · 06-27-2021, 06:34 PM

Well I was concerned in Oregon as I was getting a Ram 3500 DRW, with 14,000# GVWR, and towing a 5er with a 12,360# GVWR. The email stated no special endorsement needed.

DieselMike · 06-27-2021, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselMike

I read for hours and hours and for many days, you must read all of the details in your state.
In PA, which is like many other states, you must review and verify if you require a None CDL drivers licence to tow over 26001 lbs combined AND towing over 10001 lbs trailer.

If you have an accident, and your not correctly licensed, you could be dropped with e ZERO insurance. There is such a mis-conception about this and after lots of reading, and confirmation from PA State police, it is correct. So please check you local state requirements. The RV dealer will play dumb... PERIOD.

Good luck, and be safe towing.

I Agree 100% that many readings are contradictory as you stated. In Pa they say that if your towing a boat in the same condition and not making money taking people on the water, no ---- None CDL required, but if your towing a camper, you must have one.
So i paid the $5.00 took the stupid test - clearly after towing for years, passed, and now there is no longer an issue. It is so crazy that you can drive up to a dealer, purchase an RV never towing or driving a class “A” and down the street you go -----OMG, you have got to be kiding me. Then you allow each state to pass new drivers and never explain why you dont speed up in front of anything pulling/towing 10’s of thousands of lbs. Its crazy to think how STUPID people are. Come on people............

DieselMike · 06-27-2021, 06:44 PM

I agree it is so confusing....Make it crystal clear please is all i have said for the last few years. Ask a lawyer to be safe.If you really like camping and your towing a camper of any type over 10 K please confirm in you state what the laws are. Just have your A$$ covered.

Bill-2020 · 06-28-2021, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselMike

I. Its crazy to think how STUPID people are. Come on people............

Perhaps more “uneducated” than stupid.

Mikelff · 06-28-2021, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunny Mike

I thought I bought the right TV when I was looking at the numbers on the annual towing guide from Trailer Life. It showed my F250 with 6.0 towing 15000 pounds with a 5th wheel tow. When I was at the Indy RV show a few years back the salesman was referring to this guide when I was looking at Montana. Thanks to a forum response I ended up backing out of that purchase. I guess the publisher of this guide should be included in on the class action suit. They need to come out with a simple app where you just plug in your numbers on your vehicle.

I see on this forum people often talking about class action suites. It’s NOT going to happen. Who’s going to be the first guy up to spend the money?? (Thousands$$)First, you need an individual or group file a suit, then get a judge to approve a class of injured people to make it a class action. Every time I see someone talk about a “ class action suit” I just chuckle because they obviously don’t know what it takes to do that. It will continue to come up, but not likely to ever happen.

DispatchFTR · 06-29-2021, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Javi

It should never be the government's responsibility to protect us from ourselves...

I agree whole heartedly!

F150Eh · 07-02-2021, 07:59 AM

I just lived this whole experience. First time truck and RV owner, we bought our RV first then went about looking at what truck we needed. I did my research on what a truck could tow and was blown away...an F150 could easily pull our almost 30' RV! So I placed an order with a bells-and-whistles Lariat.

Fortunately, for me at least, the chip shortage happened and my order got delayed. It was during this delay that I learned about payload and how that factors in to towing. There was no way my ordered Lariat would have had the appropriate payload (based on comparative builds and door stickers shared on F150 forums). Our dealer was more than willing to sell a truck on the lot so we were able to get a great XLT with a much better payload rating.

During discussions with my sales rep though, when I asked him for the tire rating door sticker (which lists max payload) he wasn't even really aware of it...he even commented nobody had ever asked him for that sticker before, and he had been at that dealership for over a decade.

Ideally salespeople would be educated in all this, both at the RV and vehicle dealerships; but the cynical side of me says it wouldn't really matter because sales are meant to sell, not educate. It really does fall to the customer to do their research, which is unfortunate with so much misinformation out there.

wiredgeorge · 07-02-2021, 09:23 AM

The Ford F150 has the best towing capacity and payload in class. Ever hear that? Since practically all the F150s out there are configured differently it makes you wonder how Ford could make that statement. When you have been on the forum awhile you will see many sad owners find out for the first time their "best in class" is BS and those ratings don't apply to them or actually anyone except that one super special truck that Ford configured for max towing and payload. It is especially misleading when Ford, Ram and Chevy/GMC get in to numbers wars and start administratively exaggerating specs. And most folks don't have any idea that the "best in class towing" is done on a controlled course with a flatbed and blocks on the trailer or something similar as I recall.

Folks consider sale staff to be experts on what they are selling. RV salesmen often know less that the people buying as they most likely have never owned and RV and car salesmen? Well owning a car doesn't confer expertise as I can attest. F150Eh! Consider yourself fortunate for Ford's chip misfortune!

DieselMike · 07-02-2021, 09:27 AM

Glad to hear that you were able to get into a safer towing condition. Welcome to the RV world. My guess is that many poeple who bought RV’s last year, and this year were forced to up-grade after they found out they were in a tuff situation with weights and so-on. I would also guess that there will be alot of RV’s and trucks for sale in the next 1-3 years.

Camping life is really great, but its simply not for everyone and that is fine. Point is, IMHO there will likely be a flood of RV’s and trucks after those who later chose camping is / was not there thing.

As i mentioned in an earlier post, you can get a lot of really information from your local state police on towing, lenghth, weights etc

Make sure you change your GPS to towing so you dont by accident end up on the belt parkway and lose your AC unit on the next underpass :-) This happens more than you might think. After towing since 1986, ive gained a little bit of experience, and still learning more and more every year.

Good luck, be safe!

jsb5717 · 07-02-2021, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F150Eh

I just lived this whole experience. First time truck and RV owner, we bought our RV first then went about looking at what truck we needed. I did my research on what a truck could tow and was blown away...an F150 could easily pull our almost 30' RV! So I placed an order with a bells-and-whistles Lariat.

Fortunately, for me at least, the chip shortage happened and my order got delayed. It was during this delay that I learned about payload and how that factors in to towing. There was no way my ordered Lariat would have had the appropriate payload (based on comparative builds and door stickers shared on F150 forums). Our dealer was more than willing to sell a truck on the lot so we were able to get a great XLT with a much better payload rating.

During discussions with my sales rep though, when I asked him for the tire rating door sticker (which lists max payload) he wasn't even really aware of it...he even commented nobody had ever asked him for that sticker before, and he had been at that dealership for over a decade.

Ideally salespeople would be educated in all this, both at the RV and vehicle dealerships; but the cynical side of me says it wouldn't really matter because sales are meant to sell, not educate. It really does fall to the customer to do their research, which is unfortunate with so much misinformation out there.

I love this! First, because you were fortunate and didn't have to make and expensive change after an ill-informed purchase. Second, because you were wise enough to listen to the vast knowledge base on a forum like this. If everyone would take the time to educate themselves beyond "sales-speak" this topic would come up less often.

I found today that Keystone's literature is actually pretty good in advising how to match TV to Trailer. Too bad that most sales folks haven't read or follow this basic advice.

From:
https://www.keystonerv.com/keystone-...-rv-towing-101

I'm sure many have seen this, first time for me:

Consider the truck and fifth wheel as a towing combination. For the best towing experience, match the capabilities of the truck you plan to purchase to the fifth wheel weight. Or, if you are planning to use your existing truck, buy a fifth wheel that falls within your truck’s capabilities.
We recommend the tow vehicle you select have a trailer weight rating to handle at least the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of the RV you plan to tow.
Proper weight and load distribution are absolutely essential to safe towing. Keep the loaded tongue weight between 15% and 25% of the total weight.
Read more about towing considerations and weight distribution in your Keystone RV Owner's Manual.

DieselMike · 07-02-2021, 11:00 AM

I did not see that, i have been reading PA DOT CDL and Non-CDL information specific to towing which clearly talked about combination. Interestingly enough, one paragraph said if you tow a boat over 10,001 LBS and the combined weight of truck and boat exceeds 26001 lbs and your only using for pleasure, no special license required. But if your chartering people on the ocean ( making revenue ) then you need a commercial license.

Then down a little further it reads completly oppisite for towing an RV and if the weights exceed like above with boat and truck, then your required to ascertain your non-CDL.
I wish the States would make this clear and simple to understand PRIOR to finding out later.

I have no problem playing the game, but PLEASE provide with rules so we can play the game :-)
It was only $5.00 and a 1/2 day investment along with my next door neighbor who has his CDL since the military and he is the one that pushed me to have the correct licensure to cover my a$$ in the even i had an accident and not get dropped by insurance for not having the correct license. I towed for years with no issues, and there are many more out there like i was, but with all the newbies......I feel better to lead by example.
Welcome to the RV world.

Gunny Mike · 07-03-2021, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselMike

I did not see where anyone talked about the weight issue of a truck and trailer towing more than 26001 lbs and the trailer is 10K plus. Every state provdes detailes on this but t is so hard to get anyone to be forth comming with easy to understand details, ETC. Talk to your CDL driver trainers..... they now the rules.

you like need a none class A cdl if towing in this above condition..

Seems no one knows the rules until your invollved in an accident. If the weight calls for a 1/2 ton, go 3/4. If the weight calls for 3/4 ton, go 1 ton...Nt worth taking the risk.

Ever have an *** hole pull right in front of you ?? Yes of course, all day every day.

I wonder if your insurance would pay knowing that you were over your payload when the accident occurred? If someone got badly injured or killed could you be charged with a criminal offense being overweight?

Ken / Claudia · 07-03-2021, 12:35 PM

Gunny you bring up a valid point. I have seen auto insurance with words like, violation of criminal law in the exclusions. Mine says, "use of a motor vehicle in the commission of a felony." In Oregon there are several felonies that can involve motor vehicles, negligent homicide, manslaughter and even assault 1st degree. Factors go into those charges like knowingly, negligent, recklessly.
Easy for a lawyer to prove some of that if their client was hospitalized with a life threatening injury or of course death.
So, for all the lawyers on here: If a person knowingly drove xxx lbs over weight, maybe add any of these, above the speed limit, talking on cell phone, distracted, tried from hours of travel. (Or common stuff that are listed factors on a police crash report). They pile up into a traffic slow down and could not stop. Think commission of a felony(s) if charged with any above listed crimes could get auto insurance saying that is an exclusion, your on your own.

DieselMike · 07-03-2021, 12:36 PM

That is a really great question for the would be prosecutor.
I wonder if we have any lawyers in the forum that could weigh in on that?

My next door neighbor was also a CDL trainer and said if you have an accident and you are not licensed for the load / towing condition, there is a good chance you will be dropped by your insurance company.

It would be great to have this clearly spelled out for all of us.

**JRTJH** · 07-03-2021, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselMike

That is a really great question for the would be prosecutor.
I wonder if we have any lawyers in the forum that could weigh in on that?

My next door neighbor was also a CDL trainer and said if you have an accident and you are not licensed for the load / towing condition, there is a good chance you will be dropped by your insurance company.

It would be great to have this clearly spelled out for all of us.

This forum is a "multi-national meeting place" We have members from Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Mexico, Canada and all 50 US states....

No doubt, laws are significantly different in some/all of these places and certainly the regulation of automobile insurance (done at the state level in the USA) will likely be "different as night and day" in some locations....

Trying to "nail down a set of specifics" that a member can "rely on as being current, up to date and applicable to them, in their specific situation" is about as difficult as carrying water in a bucket without a bottom.....

While we can "talk about, argue about, cuss about or fuss about insurance and what applies to me" There is no possible way to be sure that what someone posts on here will or won't apply to you....

The best source of information is your insurance agent. Chances are very good that if you ask him/her a specific question about, "What if I'm towing overweight, will I be covered?" I'd suspect that your agent will have to follow up with his insurance underwriter for the answer.... If you can get it in writing that your insurance will cover you if you're knowingly negligent, make sure that document is handy if/when something happens and you're faced with the events that unfold......

And, know that if YOU can get hands on that document, it likely won't apply to someone in a different state that has the same insurance company.....

**sourdough** · 07-03-2021, 06:13 PM

And everyone needs to realize that there are huge differences between regulations for towing RVs, non commercial items vs commercial then state vs state. Apples and oranges; CDL required - maybe, usually not for an RV.

j.jorett · 07-03-2021, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

The Ford F150 has the best towing capacity and payload in class. Ever hear that? Since practically all the F150s out there are configured differently it makes you wonder how Ford could make that statement. When you have been on the forum awhile you will see many sad owners find out for the first time their "best in class" is BS and those ratings don't apply to them or actually anyone except that one super special truck that Ford configured for max towing and payload. It is especially misleading when Ford, Ram and Chevy/GMC get in to numbers wars and start administratively exaggerating specs. And most folks don't have any idea that the "best in class towing" is done on a controlled course with a flatbed and blocks on the trailer or something similar as I recall.

Folks consider sale staff to be experts on what they are selling. RV salesmen often know less that the people buying as they most likely have never owned and RV and car salesmen? Well owning a car doesn't confer expertise as I can attest. F150Eh! Consider yourself fortunate for Ford's chip misfortune!

I fell into this trap. Chevy 1500 rated to tow my brand new 335cg outback… 37’ 10500lbs.. put airbags on and a good hitch and all is right in the world.. until I get over 65… then the tail started wagging and well let’s say I’ve hauled trailers for years and this was not comfortable… towed it once and now I’m the owner of a 21 Chevy 2500 With a diesel.. just remember.. they lie.. yes it can be done.. no it’s not comfortable..

Dkentaz65 · 07-05-2021, 01:44 PM

Yeah, I just saw that advertisement too. It's ok to tout the engine's capacity but that's not the only factor for towing - suspension, axle ratings, etc. right... I mean a 6.7L Powerstroke is in both the F250 and F350 SRW and DRWs. But towing capacity is totally different between the 3. So, either choose the correct truck to showcase it or put a different 5er behind it. LOL.

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