Newbie Question

[Baysider]

So I guess we have beat this to death but i contacted the previous owner again. The wheels are the new and expensive back spaced type built for the look. Frankly, I like the look too. The tires protrude about 1.5 inches. There are no spacers behind the wheels. I do have a question. If the new weight distribution hitch kit that’s coming in the mail reduces my tongue weight to 200 lbs and bumper drop to 1/2 inch or less how do i go about snapping a wheel off? And the Echo brake controller how do I not benefit from that? So your cheers and jeers have all been accepted with thanks. I think I’m going to be ok with due caution. Thanks again. See you around the forum.

[sourdough]

You have very high expectations of that wdh (don't remember which one and doesn't matter). It's not going to reduce your tongue weight to 200 lbs. and most certainly won't leave you with a rear bumper with 1/2" drop FROM FACTORY. You have a truck with a 2" spacer in the front springs....raises the front too high for headlights in the first place without being professionally adjusted. You will add 900lbs. of tongue weight to a truck already compromised by lifting the front 2"....and no, that 900lbs. is always there, it doesn't turn to 200lbs. In fact, it just drops the rear bumper further which compromises truck handling, sway control and every other thing about "towing", not looking cool. You either have a truck to tow and do what it takes to make it tow well, and safely, or you make a street queen and don't tow - pretty simple.

How do the offset wheels affect towing/stability/safety? Pure physics. Don't know if you've ever messed with wheels, tires, axles, spindles etc. but I have - just had 2 axles pulled and 2 new ones installed today. Envision a toothpick 4" long with support points at each end (axle/spindles/bearings) and calculate whatever the weight in the middle might be before that toothpick bends or breaks. Now, take a little piece of straw and add an inch to each end and drop that same weight in the middle - plop...it wasn't made to hold under that extension. It adds tremendous stress to the spindles and bearings to do that sort of ad hoc mod to make things "look cool".

You have a 7k trailer. It's not a toy and certainly not meant to be modded and used as a "show queen". Towing is serious business - and dangerous when folks try to make a truck something they're not.

[Baysider]

Sourdough, Please stop implying I’m a reckless idiot. It muddies your message which I guess is trying to help me. First impression of this forum is that it is decidedly unfriendly to beginners. I give respect, I expect respect. For better or worse I am a Keystone Passport owner. If I’m in the wrong place suggest a more friendly forum for me to join.

Now, why exactly do I need a weight distributing hitch? Or do I not need one?

Second. On your advice I am going to get a second opinion in person here locally as to the safety of my truck for pulling my trailer. There may come from that a plan to return the truck to stock. Part of the plan will be to remove the leveling kit. I will report back on what I learn. Just getting rid of the truck is a non-starter.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Baysider

Sourdough, Please stop implying I’m a reckless idiot. It muddies your message which I guess is trying to help me. First impression of this forum is that it is decidedly unfriendly to beginners. I give respect, I expect respect. For better or worse I am a Keystone Passport owner. If I’m in the wrong place suggest a more friendly forum for me to join.

Now, why exactly do I need a weight distributing hitch? Or do I not need one?

Second. On your advice I am going to get a second opinion in person here locally as to the safety of my truck for pulling my trailer. There may come from that a plan to return the truck to stock. Part of the plan will be to remove the leveling kit. I will report back on what I learn. Just getting rid of the truck is a non-starter.

Questions like the one I highlighted in your post are exactly the reason why people are "pounding safety into the thread"....

Granted, you (and everyone else including me) don't know what you don't know... That said, towing a travel trailer is not a "caviler or a recreational event" It's an extremely hazardous activity that usually goes OK, but can, in an instant turn deadly. That's why we "preach safety and urge adequate tow vehicles". Living on the edge is best left to those with parasails and good life insurance when jumping off a cliff"... THERE IS NO NEED FOR ANYONE TO JUMP OFF A CLIFF WHEN TOWING....

The reason you need a weight distribution hitch is multifold. Primarily, it "distributes the weight across both vehicle axles and puts some of that weight back on the trailer axles. It does NOT remove any hitch weight. It redistributes that weight away from the fulcrum (rear axle) to better manage and balance the weight you've added. If you have too much weight on the rear of your truck (how much is too much?) You'll know when you cross over a railroad track at 50 MPH and the steering wheel no longer feels connected to the front tires.... Yes, it happens, probably more than you'd imagine. Granted, that's an extreme, but the purpose of a weight distribution hitch primarily is to compensate for the enormous weight placed behind the rear axle by the trailer tongue.

Think about a teeter-totter with a "fat kid" on one end and a "skinny kid" on the other end. Who is "in the air, trapped and not having fun".... The same happens to your truck when you hitch a heavy trailer behind the fulcrum (the rear axle). That "fat kid trailer" does the same thing as the "fat kid on the teeter-totter"....

Now, consider "both tow vehicle axles attempting to brake to a stop in an emergency" and the "fat kid" on the back is preventing the "skinny kid" on the front axle from being in "firm contact with the road surface"... How can the front brakes effectively help stop your rig? How can the front tires effectively help steer around a hazard? In short, the WD hitch acts to eliminate all or most of the weight shift created "by the fat kid".....

I think, at least the way I read your responses, the impression has been that "this is what it is, I'm going to use this truck, no matter what, and if it's not safe, there's not much I can do, but I'm going to stick with this an try to make it work".... That's the "no, No, NO!!!!!" that you're sensing in posts that seem to be "pushing the brink"..... We all want you to enjoy RVing, we all want you to be safe when RVing, we all want you to return and post about your successful RVing.... None of us want to read about your insurance claims and hospital bills.... That's the reason we "push to be safe" and "are critical of unsafe potentials"....

Remember this, none of us (NOT EVEN ONE) has any financial stake (profit or loss) in what you do. We didn't sell you a "too big trailer" or a "too small truck" and we don't stand to make even a single penny from telling you the truth, no matter how much it may "sting" to hear it.....

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Baysider

Sourdough, Please stop implying I’m a reckless idiot. It muddies your message which I guess is trying to help me. First impression of this forum is that it is decidedly unfriendly to beginners. I give respect, I expect respect. For better or worse I am a Keystone Passport owner. If I’m in the wrong place suggest a more friendly forum for me to join.

Now, why exactly do I need a weight distributing hitch? Or do I not need one?

Second. On your advice I am going to get a second opinion in person here locally as to the safety of my truck for pulling my trailer. There may come from that a plan to return the truck to stock. Part of the plan will be to remove the leveling kit. I will report back on what I learn. Just getting rid of the truck is a non-starter.

\


I'm sorry you feel that way. I haven't implied anything nor intended to. I have however told you what you need to think/worry about as would anyone familiar with towing a 7k lb. RV.

This IS a friendly forum and has been for countless members. We do however take safety seriously, have countless decades if not centuries of experience, and know an unsafe situation when we see it - your Dakota was one and now you've opted to buy a "cool" truck vs a "tow" truck - big difference and we are trying to point that out. After you said you were not going to get a new truck I even tried to tell you how to "unmod" your truck to try to make it more safe for you and your family (if there is one) - even if it still wasn't anywhere optimal - a 1313 lb. payload is small by any standard for a even a 1/2 ton truck, and, I suspect it is much smaller due to all the "mods" done by the previous owner.

The requirement for a wdh/sway control has been addressed multiple times now yet you seem heckbound to find someone to tell you it's not needed. I'm sure someone at the grocery store can give you the answers you seem to be looking for. Hopefully you've noticed that no one with experience towing has told you what a great towing machine you have.

In the end it's your truck, your trailer and your life. My/our only wish is for you to be safe (and keep others on the highway safe as well) and understand what's wrong with the combo and what you can do to try to improve the towing capability of yet another truck not set up for pulling a bigger RV. If that makes you feel reckless, or you think I'm implying you are (which I'm not), I'm sorry.

[Baysider]

Sourdough, we are good. JRTJH, I now understand the weight distributing hitch function and requirement. I’m a retired engineer, I love details. I have one on order. I get what you are both telling me. The truck is too small no matter what I do to it. I can make it better but I can’t make it right. That’s the rock, the hard place is it’s what I have for the foreseeable future. I’m going off and think about this awhile.

[sourdough]

Thanks for trying to be open minded and working to figure out what you can do. You do have the proverbial "rock and a hard place" kind of situation that without a different truck needs to be addressed in some fashion. Since I don't have any illusions that you will be letting the trailer just sit until a new truck comes along, please let us help you with suggestions to help you minimize any potential major malfunctions. We want to help so just let us know after you think about it.

[JRTJH]

Thinking about your expertise (or lack of knowledge) about weight distribution hitches, there are "just as many right and wrong choices" when shopping for a WD hitch as there are "right and wrong vehicles" to use as tow vehicles.

WD hitches range from Harbor Freight antiquated technology" types to "state of the art 4 point sway control" types. Not only is the "right tow vehicle" necessary to meet a wide range of trailer weights/types, the "right WD hitch" is needed to better manage not only the weight placed on the rear of your tow vehicle, but also to manage (or help manage) the sway induced by sidewinds, "bow wave forces" from other large vehicles on the road and braking effort "unequal forces" caused by trailer load shifting/imbalance and road conditions...

Buying a WD hitch is not an easy, simple choice like buying a box of salt. It's more like buying a "custom fit suit" where not only color matters, but also fit, warmth, durability and a wide range of other factors dramatically affect the outcome.

You mentioned that you "ordered a hitch and when it comes in you'll start using it.... Like the tow vehicle, if you ordered the wrong hitch, you can just as easily "make matters worse" as you could "solve a problem"....

So........ Hitch matters just like "vehicle matters".....

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Remember this, none of us (NOT EVEN ONE) has any financial stake (profit or loss) in what you do. We didn't sell you a "too big trailer" or a "too small truck" and we don't stand to make even a single penny from telling you the truth, no matter how much it may "sting" to hear it.....

Plus, pretty much all of us have been lied to by ignorant or venal RV/Truck dealers who invariably say "Sure, that thing can pull that other thing."

[Baysider]

Ok, the hitch I ordered is Husky 31423 Round Bar Weight Distribution Hitch with bolt together ball mount/shank assembly 1200 lb. max tongue weight. Give me a couple of choices if you can or tell me what else you need from me to make a suggestion. I will send the Husky back when it gets here. But that will imply that there are things that can be done to make this truck better if only safer. If we don’t believe that then getting a great hitch is a waste of money isn’t it? I’m wide open here. If it can be helped I want to help it if not, then I understand. Question, what do air bags do and does it help in this case?

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Baysider

Ok, the hitch I ordered is Husky 31423 Round Bar Weight Distribution Hitch with bolt together ball mount/shank assembly 1200 lb. max tongue weight. Give me a couple of choices if you can or tell me what else you need from me to make a suggestion. I will send the Husky back when it gets here. But that will imply that there are things that can be done to make this truck better if only safer. If we don’t believe that then getting a great hitch is a waste of money isn’t it? I’m wide open here. If it can be helped I want to help it if not, then I understand. Question, what do air bags do and does it help in this case?

You need to send the hitch back. It does not have sway control. Sway control can be "added" by adding a ball to the head and a little friction bar on the side. Sway control, which you will desperately need, will be virtually absent even with the little bar - I've used them.

That said I would (my preference) buy an Equalizer 4 point wdh/sway control. It has 4 points of built in sway control, no add ons required, works extremely well and you don't have to disconnect the bars to back up, turn etc. Not many on the market that compare to the Equalizer in that price range.

At the risk being repetitive, you absolutely need weight distribution (properly adjusted) to keep that trailer from degrading the control of the truck considerably as has been described. You absolutely need the sway control because the height and length of that trailer can catch enough side wind from gusts, constant velocity wind, passing cars/semis to whip that trailer from side to side. With a 1/2 ton truck the trailer weighs more than the truck so it WILL do what it wants to with the truck and occupants once it get going. The sway control is to prevent, or at least minimize, that.

Other things; make sure all the tires on the truck are LT tires. I know the PO made mods to the wheels and tires - we don't know what but we DO know that if P rated tires they will be "squishy" under load and fail to give you the control you will need. If you retain the offset wheels (I hope you don't) those problems will just be exacerbated.

Many folks add air bags thinking they "add payload"...they don't; instead they detract from it. In your case it won't matter because no matter what you do you will be overweight. In that scenario the air bags can help stabilize the ride and the tendency of softer 1/2 ton springs to want to "give" and "roll" under load. That giving and rolling can lead to loss of control of the vehicle.

You need to remove that leveling kit. They pose problems with headlight positioning without a load in a truck. With that trailer on the truck, with a wdh and air bags, those headlights will still be blinding oncoming traffic. For towing they do nothing more than cause problems.

Look at the receiver on that truck. With that small of a payload I'm concerned it didn't come with a towing package which then makes me wonder about the class of receiver they may have put on it. The weight limits with and without a wdh should be stamped (hopefully) or stickered on it. Let us know what that says.

IMO opinion it is a very bad idea to tow that trailer with that truck unless you remove some of the mods....for the safety of you, yours and others. If you are going to tow with it, which I get the distinct impression you are, my only goal is to minimize the dangers you and others will face.

[JRTJH]

Well, the first thing I'd recommend is that you stop "throwing money at internet sites and buying vehicles without thinking through the appropriateness of your purchases..... As Grandpa used to tell me, "You can not unring a bell" (once something is done, it's done) but you certainly can stop ringing the damn thing... (stop making matters worse until you know where you're at and where you're headed)

That Husky hitch is the "most antiquated type of weight distribution hitch on the market" and is very similar to what Harbor Freight sells. It's a "rudimentary round bar spring type hitch" with no sway control built in. To that hitch, you'll need to add one or two "rudimentary sway control kits". One sway control kit will handle up to "about 5000 pounds" so at 7000, one isn't enough.

So, add the $70 each for those, and you're at $140 plus the $250 for the hitch and you've still got to pay someone to weld or otherwise mount the balls onto the tongue so you can connect them to the trailer. So you're looking at roughly $400 plus installation for a "rudimentary hitch". A "top of the line" Equalizer 4 point WD hitch with built in sway control costs roughly $650 and is significantly better at preventing sway than any "clamp bar sway kit".

Right now, it appears to me that you're frustrated, upset, want to "fix it now" and in that "frame of mind" what you're really doing is "jumping to solutions with no regard to which solution is best or even appropriate" and quite likely, without even knowing "what the bottom line problem is" ....

SLOW DOWN and think things through before you spend any more money, order any more "fixings" (without a solution to what needs to be fixed) and take a DEEP BREATH......

Your issues are not "either or" (either the hitch will work or if not, a better hitch that will work means the truck is really OK) Neither is the correct solution. Your truck is a poor tow vehicle in its current configuration. Can you make it a "mediocre tow vehicle" ?? Yes, but it will NEVER be ideal for a 7K trailer regardless of which hitch you use to drag the trailer... As for hitches behind "that truck", you can buy some WD hitches that will make towing worse than having no hitch at all and you can buy some hitches that will make a bad situation "mediocre" but you can't buy a hitch that will make that truck "tow like a HD truck". What that means, at least to me, is that with the right decisions and the right accessories, you can make a currently "terrible" situation somewhat better. Good enough to "make do" is a possibility. You can make it good enough to call it "OK towing in a safe rig." That's attainable. On the other hand, to expect it to be great enough to say, "This is the way towing is supposed to be", well, not so much......

[Baysider]

Ok, the Husky goes back. Now to selling Equalizer hitch to my wife, I’m sold. And I would be delighted to be mediocre at this point. I’m having thoughts that the big fix is to get rid of the trailer. I must have a truck but a trailer I need less and less. You are right, I am frustrated big time. This was supposed to be fun. By the way the tires are LT Load Range E at max psi cold. I think I posted the specifics way back there somewhere.

[Baysider]

Equalizer 4 point anti-sway hitch max trailer weight 10,000 lbs. max tongue weight 1,000 lbs. Sound about right?

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by Baysider

Ok, the Husky goes back. Now to selling Equalizer hitch to my wife, I’m sold. And I would be delighted to be mediocre at this point. I’m having thoughts that the big fix is to get rid of the trailer. I must have a truck but a trailer I need less and less. You are right, I am frustrated big time. This was supposed to be fun. By the way the tires are LT Load Range E at max psi cold. I think I posted the specifics way back there somewhere.

It can still be fun. It’s just a lot more fun when your not stressed out getting to the fun spot.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Baysider

Ok, the Husky goes back. Now to selling Equalizer hitch to my wife, I’m sold. And I would be delighted to be mediocre at this point. I’m having thoughts that the big fix is to get rid of the trailer. I must have a truck but a trailer I need less and less. You are right, I am frustrated big time. This was supposed to be fun. By the way the tires are LT Load Range E at max psi cold. I think I posted the specifics way back there somewhere.

Getting into RVs and all the equipment required to do so properly is not "cheap" in any way or fashion. In your situation the Equalizer should not have to be "sold" to your wife; it is a requirement to even tow that trailer and be "sort of" safe - hopefully she can understand that.

As John mentioned, you're not going to be able to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, but, maybe you can turn into a canvas bag......IF you take the measures required to do so. If not, for your safety and the safety of others, you very well may want to divest yourself of the trailer until you can get a proper tow vehicle.

[Baysider]

So that little 2 inch hockey puck requires the removal of the whole strut to get it out. Mercy. Is adjusting out the lift using the headlight adjusting screws an option? I see the reverse rake is Factory installed. For bed loading I guess?

[JRTJH]

When towing, it's much MUCH more than just headlight adjustment.

The truck frame is "linear". You're connecting an "angular hitch" to the rear of the frame and then applying downward tension to the trailer frame, lifting the rear of the tow vehicle using the fulcrum of the rear axle to apply a portion of that tension to the front axle. The "rake" diminishes the amount of tension you can apply without changing the angle of the hitch which makes uncoupling the "linear trailer coupler impossible. So, it ALL has to work together when towing.

Yes, you can probably compensate and leave the "hockey pucks behind the front struts, but if you do, how is that going to affect another component "along that linear frame all the way back to the angular hitch ????? And we haven't even started to consider the trailer weight, the "spring action" of the WD bars and how that affects the "rocking of the entire rig" every time you cross over an expansion joint on a concrete highway....

That said, if you're going to "try to do it the best way you can" and then "create a work-around on the first component working from front to rear"... well, it's going to be a "dismal failure by the time you get to that new equalizer 4 point hitch on the back of the truck (and we still haven't even started to set up the trailer yet......

Shortcuts, they just don't work when you're in "over your head to begin"....

Sort of like having $10 and needing $15 by Friday and asking, "Can I spend $2 on a hamburger and make it up later in the week?"

IMHO, set up the front suspension to be as "rock solid stock" as possible, then move to the next step. Don't take shortcuts along the way, you'll wind up "dollars short on Friday"....

[Baysider]

Ok, so tomorrow I start the process of getting rid of the trailer. I’ll maybe start with the credit union and move on to the dealer. I’ve had it. Good night all.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by Baysider

Ok, so tomorrow I start the process of getting rid of the trailer. I’ll maybe start with the credit union and move on to the dealer. I’ve had it. Good night all.

Think it over tonite.