Cougar 30BHS severe battery drain

[Soxfan904]

I just picked up my camper on Friday and charged it up over the weekend and the battery is almost dead, I think.

When I check inCommand it shows the volts as 10.8v, and I had it charging all Saturday and Sunday. The fridge and everything else is off. I thought it should be charging via Solar? It is not all sunlight here, it is cloudy but looks like no charging. How can I tell?

This doesn’t sit well that the battery drains so fast. Am I doing something wrong? Do I need an additional coach battery? I can’t monitor the Smartshunt and SmartSolar remotely because they don’t connect to wifi/internet. This has me very concerned as I don’t want ti ruin the battery.

Anyone else have this problem, or any ideas as to what may be going on?

[chuckster57]

How many watts of solar? I would be looking at the converter, testing it for output. If it was plugged into shore power all weekend and only shows 10.X volts you have an issue.

Bad battery- maybe, a load test will rule that out

Bad converter- test output while plugged into shore power

Bad solar- test output at the battery

[Soxfan904]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

How many watts of solar? I would be looking at the converter, testing it for output. If it was plugged into shore power all weekend and only shows 10.X volts you have an issue.

Bad battery- maybe, a load test will rule that out

Bad converter- test output while plugged into shore power

Bad solar- test output at the battery

Thanks for the advice. I should have clarified a bit. It was charging all weekend until about 6pm EST last night, and i checked the voltage it was around 13, then around 10pm it was 12.8. I just check it now and it w3as at 10.8 and now the system is office (I am at work, assume the battery died).

I am not sure anything is bad, but maybe I did not let it charge long enough.

I am planning on storing it for the winter and hope that the solar will keep the battery charged enough to keep the inCommand and SmartShunt and SmartSolor active.

When you suggest testing, do you recommend using a multi meter? Again, I am very new to this camper, so I appreciate any advice

[travelin texans]

If the battery went from 13 volts to 10 overnight with nothing running then I'd say the battery is toast.
If previously it's sat at 10 volts or less for an extended period of time it's done for especially if it's the typical marine cranking battery most dealers install.

[sourdough]

^^^^Don't know how many times you've let it get that low but that is a dead battery. It gets more difficult to charge them and more difficult for them to hold a charge the more they are depleted. I am attaching a link showing states of charge. Also, why are you concerned about keeping InCommand and the shunt operational over the winter vs just pulling and storing the battery?

https://www.rvtechlibrary.com/images/voltchart.gif

[Soxfan904]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

If the battery went from 13 volts to 10 overnight with nothing running then I'd say the battery is toast.
If previously it's sat at 10 volts or less for an extended period of time it's done for especially if it's the typical marine cranking battery most dealers install.

You probably are correct. Could this be3 the case even through the camper is brand new? Maybe I am misinterpreting this, but I am not at home (the camper is) and when I open the inCommand app it now says the battery is at 9.8v. It is cloudy at home, but shouldn't the solar be charging?

I will check it with the Bluetooth when I get home, and see if the Smartshunt gives me any better data. I will also charge it.

I am stepping down from 50amps to 20amps, due to charging at home, maybe I will leave it plugged in all the time until we store it, I just wanted to test the solar charging.

[Soxfan904]

Originally Posted by sourdough

^^^^Don't know how many times you've let it get that low but that is a dead battery. It gets more difficult to charge them and more difficult for them to hold a charge the more they are depleted. I am attaching a link showing states of charge. Also, why are you concerned about keeping InCommand and the shunt operational over the winter vs just pulling and storing the battery?

https://www.rvtechlibrary.com/images/voltchart.gif

It has not gotten this low before, this is the first time. I had it charging all weekend and unplugged it last night so I could see if the solar charging would work while I was at work, away from the camper. The inCommand app says that its at 9.8v, but that would be dead according to your graphic, so how is inCOmmand working? I think I am misunderstanding this.

Also, I am not opposed to pulling the battery for the winter, I used to do that on my previous camper, I just read that i could turn off the giggy box to cut power to the RV but the solar would charge and maintain the battery so that I didn't have to remove it.

[JRTJH]

It sounds like you're relying on the solar system, not shore power and the converter to charge your battery ???

Things to consider:

1. Cloudy days cut "rated solar output watts" by up to 75%, so a 100 watt panel may only give you 25 watts for a couple of hours when the sun is directly overhead. 25 watts @ 12 volts is about 2.1 amps. Any "trickle charger" meets or beats that charge level and most "Harbor Freight battery chargers" will provide 10+ amps of charge. So, essentially, on a cloudy day, you "might be lucky to equal a trickle charger". In other words, "barely minimal charging is happening to your battery" with a solar system on a cloudy day.

2. If you turned off the charger and "immediately checked the voltage in the battery" then you did not get a "true charge voltage" but a "false charge voltage". You'll need to let the battery "sit at rest" for about 30 minutes so it can stabilize the cells, then read the "true charge voltage". It sounds like you did that a couple hours later and found the voltage very low. That's an indication of a faulty battery or a damaged battery.

3. Every time you discharge a battery beyond 50%, you damage the battery's ability to accept a full charge. That damage is accumulative, so if you picked up the trailer last week with a completely dead battery, then it may have already been damaged beyond recovery. The only way to know for sure is to try to fully charge the battery and then do a load test to see if the battery can carry a load. Any auto parts store (NAPA, Auto Zone, etc) can do a "free load test" for you.

My guess is your battery is "toast" or maybe a better description would be "soggy stale bread" and won't ever provide satisfactory performance. It only takes a couple times of being "fully discharged" to damage a battery and if it "sits for a week or two in that condition, you can "bet the bank" that your battery will NEVER perform like it did before that event.

I'd speculate that until you buy new batteries, your trailer will continue to perform this way. It's not the trailer, it's the battery that's at fault.

[Soxfan904]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

It sounds like you're relying on the solar system, not shore power and the converter to charge your battery ???

Things to consider:

1. Cloudy days cut "rated solar output watts" by up to 75%, so a 100 watt panel may only give you 25 watts for a couple of hours when the sun is directly overhead.

2. If you turned off the charger and "immediately checked the voltage in the battery" then you did not get a "true charge voltage" but a "false charge voltage". You'll need to let the battery "sit at rest" for about 30 minutes so it can stabilize the cells, then read the "true charge voltage". It sounds like you did that a couple hours later and found the voltage very low. That's an indication of a faulty battery or a damaged battery.

3. Every time you discharge a battery beyond 50%, you damage the battery's ability to accept a full charge. That damage is accumulative, so if you picked up the trailer last week with a completely dead battery, then it may have already been damaged beyond recovery. The only way to know for sure is to try to fully charge the battery and then do a load test to see if the battery can carry a load. Any auto parts store (NAPA, Auto Zone, etc) can do a "free load test" for you.

My guess is your battery is "toast" or maybe a better description would be "soggy stale bread" and won't ever provide satisfactory performance. It only takes a couple times of being "fully discharged" to damage a battery and if it "sits for a week or two in that condition, you can "bet the bank" that your battery will NEVER perform like it did before that event.

I'd speculate that until you buy new batteries, your trailer will continue to perform this way. It's not the trailer, it's the battery that's at fault.

John, I think you may be right. I did notice that the battery was low initially, I just thought because it was sitting at the dealership for so long before we picked it up. You are correct, I do not know how long the battery was on their lot for. The camper was plugged in when I went there, and then I plugged it in when I came home. I will see if I can do a load test. Im just a little nervous about removing the battery, but I guess if both disconnects are set to off, it won't be an issue.

Yes, today is also cloudy here in Connecticut where I live. It probably not the best day to test the solar.

I will plug the camper in until the SmartShunt app tells me its at 100%. Then I will disconnect the shore power wait 30 min and take a reading as you suggested.

Last question...if the battery is dead, do you recommend I get AGM batteries, or go with Lithium?

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Soxfan904

John, I think you may be right. I did notice that the battery was low initially, I just thought because it was sitting at the dealership for so long before we picked it up. You are correct, I do not know how long the battery was on their lot for. The camper was plugged in when I went there, and then I plugged it in when I came home. I will see if I can do a load test. Im just a little nervous about removing the battery, but I guess if both disconnects are set to off, it won't be an issue.

Yes, today is also cloudy here in Connecticut where I live. It probably not the best day to test the solar.

I will plug the camper in until the SmartShunt app tells me its at 100%. Then I will disconnect the shore power wait 30 min and take a reading as you suggested.

Last question...if the battery is dead, do you recommend I get AGM batteries, or go with Lithium?

Did you take the trailer in for repair at the dealer, just buy it from them or ?? My last trailer I had just put 2 new Interstates in and took it in for warranty work. The activated the breakaway switch and totally drained them in the couple of weeks they had it. I made them buy me 2 new batteries. Sounds to me like the dealer may have run your batteries down at least once.

[Soxfan904]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Did you take the trailer in for repair at the dealer, just buy it from them or ?? My last trailer I had just put 2 new Interstates in and took it in for warranty work. The activated the breakaway switch and totally drained them in the couple of weeks they had it. I made them buy me 2 new batteries. Sounds to me like the dealer may have run your batteries down at least once.

I just bought it brand new, picked it up Friday. I’ll consult with them about a new battery. Thanks for all the advice.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Soxfan904

I just bought it brand new, picked it up Friday. I’ll consult with them about a new battery. Thanks for all the advice.

I wouldn't "consult" with them. Just tell them they ruined your battery. You bought a new trailer and expect a NEW battery. Completely draining a battery does significant, irreparable damage. Print the guide in the link I'm providing. Point them to page 4 that shows "approximate life cycle" of the battery. Then point out the very last line...what a 100% discharge does to a battery. It reduces the number of times it can be used and ran down to 50% charge (which you don't want to go below) by almost 90%. They effectively gave you a ruined battery.

https://www.intechtrailers.com/image...nce-Manual.pdf

[flybouy]

I haven't seen you reveal what size solar panel you have but let's consider solar right now. The "daylight" hours are roughly 12 hrs. now. The tilt of the earth is away from the sun and Connecticut is very far north of the equator. Add some cloud cover and well, don't expect a lot of charging from any solar panel.

I also haven't seen what batteries the dealer supplied you with. It's pretty common for a dealer to install a "dual purpose RV/marine starting battery. They typically have very low Amp hour ratings. A flooded cell battery can only use approximately 50% of its charge before risking damage. Every time those batteries are discharged below 50% they are damaged and will accept a lesser charge each time until the plates finally warp to the point that it won't accept a charge at all.

The only way to truly test the batteries is to remove them and have them load tested. The second best method is by testing the specific gravity of the electrolyte of each cell. Looking at the battery voltage while it's charging will only tell you how well and at what stage the charger is working.

[JRTJH]

If I were "new to RVing" and unsure how to operate the systems, I would not buy "high priced batteries to learn with". In other words, if you buy AGM batteries and let them completely discharge, you'll have the same situation that you're in right now. That would be an EXPENSIVE lesson to learn. I'd buy a GP27 "Marine/RV battery" (just one) and go through the rest of this camping season/winter storage with it. Then, in the spring, after you get the trailer out of storage and use it a few times, store it a few times and fully understand the systems, then if you want to upgrade to more expensive batteries, and you "KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT AND WHAT CONDITIONS THEY WILL BE EXPOSED TO" then consider upgrading batteries.

To me, the very LAST thing you want to do right now is buy a couple of $250 AGM batteries and have them "sit discharged all winter" and leave you just like you are right now, with bad batteries. I'd also say that until you know what kind of camping, how much battery power you'll use on a typical trip, I wouldn't spend "mega-bucks" on any lithium system. In the future, you may well want that kind of power system, if you can justify the expense in functional improvement for your power needs. On the other hand, if you won't be "dry camping except on rare occasions" there's no need for lithium power and that money would be better spent on things you would regularly use based on your camping needs....

If I were you, I'd figure out how to "limp through the rest of this season" and start fresh in the spring. Now, 2 weeks before winter storage, is not the ideal time to be buying batteries that you need to take care of over the winter storage. Let the battery dealer worry about that and buy your new system, "Fresh in the spring when you need it".....

ADDED: To piggyback on what Marshal said about load testing batteries, when you do obtain what the In-Command system says is a 100% charge, then disconnect the trailer from solar and shore power, let it sit for about 30 minutes and see what the voltage reading on the In-Command system says. It should be 12.5 volts (90% charge) to 12.6 volts (100% charge). If it's less than that after stabilizing, you're got a damaged cell or maybe more than just one damaged cell and that battery won't ever hold a charge.

[Soxfan904]

Thank you very much for the advice, we’ve been RVing almost 5 years and I had to AGM batteries on my previous camper. I bought them at the same time and wired them myself

we are not doing anymore Camping this year. We have not use this camper for any trip as I just picked it up Friday so the camper is new to us, but the RV process is not. I think all in all I received a dead battery from the dealer I will ask them to replace it and you’re right I work with it over the winter and storage and then address the issue more in the spring.

Thank you for the advice as I do remember those that agm batteries were about $430 apiece

[Soxfan904]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

If I were "new to RVing" and unsure how to operate the systems, I would not buy "high priced batteries to learn with". In other words, if you buy AGM batteries and let them completely discharge, you'll have the same situation that you're in right now. That would be an EXPENSIVE lesson to learn. I'd buy a GP27 "Marine/RV battery" (just one) and go through the rest of this camping season/winter storage with it. Then, in the spring, after you get the trailer out of storage and use it a few times, store it a few times and fully understand the systems, then if you want to upgrade to more expensive batteries, and you "KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT AND WHAT CONDITIONS THEY WILL BE EXPOSED TO" then consider upgrading batteries.

To me, the very LAST thing you want to do right now is buy a couple of $250 AGM batteries and have them "sit discharged all winter" and leave you just like you are right now, with bad batteries. I'd also say that until you know what kind of camping, how much battery power you'll use on a typical trip, I wouldn't spend "mega-bucks" on any lithium system. In the future, you may well want that kind of power system, if you can justify the expense in functional improvement for your power needs. On the other hand, if you won't be "dry camping except on rare occasions" there's no need for lithium power and that money would be better spent on things you would regularly use based on your camping needs....

If I were you, I'd figure out how to "limp through the rest of this season" and start fresh in the spring. Now, 2 weeks before winter storage, is not the ideal time to be buying batteries that you need to take care of over the winter storage. Let the battery dealer worry about that and buy your new system, "Fresh in the spring when you need it".....

ADDED: To piggyback on what Marshal said about load testing batteries, when you do obtain what the In-Command system says is a 100% charge, then disconnect the trailer from solar and shore power, let it sit for about 30 minutes and see what the voltage reading on the In-Command system says. It should be 12.5 volts (90% charge) to 12.6 volts (100% charge). If it's less than that after stabilizing, you're got a damaged cell or maybe more than just one damaged cell and that battery won't ever hold a charge.

OK I will do that exact step to check to see if I have a dead battery. Thank you guys for the advice

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Soxfan904

OK I will do that exact step to check to see if I have a dead battery. Thank you guys for the advice

I would again point out that chart I linked earlier. Your battery WAS dead at 10.8 (9.8?) volts. I wouldn't worry about load testing the battery until the dealer refused to give me a new one....which I find it hard to think they wouldn't given the situation. Don't deal with the salesman. Go straight to the sales manager, GM or owner and be insistent but professional.

[Soxfan904]

It was close to dead, around 9.2.

Will do. I’m going to demand a new battery as instructed. Thank you again.

[JRTJH]

Here is a battery voltage/charge status chart. As you can see, if your battery voltage was 10.8VDC when you checked it, that battery was well below 95% discharged. In other words, it was in a state where few battery charger circuits could recover it and recharge it. In the future, if you have "hybrid Marine/RV deep cycle batteries" (they'll have a CCA rating which is cold cranking amps) which would indicate to you that it's a "hybrid" battery designed for high amperage cranking and to be a low level power source for an RV system. That type of battery is a compromise, designed for general purpose use. While it will work in an RV, it's not designed for the rigors of deep discharge (below 70% or about 12.3 VDC). Regularly discharging a "hybrid" battery below 70% will shorten it's usable life.

A "true deep cycle battery" like the GC2 golf cart battery (a 6 volt battery so you need two in series to achieve 12 volts) can be discharged to about 50%, which is about 12.06 VDC As you can see, there's only about 3/10 of a volt difference between 70% and 50% discharged status. So when you posted that your battery was reading 10.8VDC, that means it's "a brick" not a battery any longer.....

In the spring, if you're a regular "dry camper" and want to spend $1500-2000 on batteries, then would be the time to make the investment. On the other hand, if you're almost always in campgrounds with shore power available, then just a single hybrid battery is probably all you need. Most people are somewhere between those two extremes and want either a couple of "good hybrid batteries", a true deep cycle battery system or possibly a single lithium 100 amp/hr battery, maybe two if they are "extreme dry campers"...

Here's the battery voltage chart for you to review

[Soxfan904]

This has been extremely helpful makes sense.

I realize I am relying on the voltage read out from the inCommand system. It got down to 9.2 today. However the smart shunt said it was 84% either way I think it’s safe to assume the battery is bad.

I’m going to save a copy of the chart you sent It’s helpful and gives me a better understanding of the battery.