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Old 08-11-2015, 09:56 AM   #1
Yosemitebob
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Wattage & inverter use

Does anyone know the wattage of a Samsong (sp) Led panel flat screen 24", I need it to figure inverter size.
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Old 08-11-2015, 11:36 AM   #2
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Can you provide the exact model?
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Old 08-11-2015, 11:39 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemitebob View Post
Does anyone know the wattage of a Samsong (sp) Led panel flat screen 24", I need it to figure inverter size.
If you have access to this TV, look on the back or try the Owner's Manual (if you have one).

Or Google it.
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Old 08-11-2015, 12:11 PM   #4
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Yes, been doing a lot of research and found that manuals do not give wattage as your own settings can change the wattage. But I did find that 125w would be a maximum for my 30" led TV (for bedroom only). And if I add a small antenna amp at 5w I can go with a 500w inverter. But going to 1000w would give me the extra cushion to work with. Now to find out how long, lets say 150w would drain my two 6v batteries wired in series for 12v, used at night with no solar. Hmmmm.
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Old 08-11-2015, 12:24 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Yosemitebob View Post
Now to find out how long, lets say 150w would drain my two 6v batteries wired in series for 12v, used at night with no solar. Hmmmm.
Bob -
After you have everything hooked up, measure the voltage at your batteries. Watch TV for an hour and re-measure to calculate the drop in voltage. You can do this for 2-3 hours and see the draw on the batteries.
While you are doing this "experiment", keep everything else out of the equation. Try not to use the pump or other "stuff" ---- just the TV if you can- so you don't involve a number of other items that will cause an additional drop in your voltage.

Best to watch your TV in small increments at first and keep an eye on your batteries along the way so you don't end up completely discharging the batteries.
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Old 08-11-2015, 01:39 PM   #6
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Now to find out how long, lets say 150w would drain my two 6v batteries wired in series for 12v, used at night with no solar. Hmmmm.

150watts = 120 volts @ 1.25 amps
150watts = 13 volts @ 11 amps

So you're drawing 11 amps per hour @ 150 watts. Most Group 27 batteries are ~80 Amp Hours, but you can't use all of that.

You've got two 6V batteries in series. If you tell me what battery make/model they are or total amp hours, we'll get you better answer than what is below.

To be conservative, I'd use no more than 70% of total discharge rating.
It's also going to depend on the actual draw of your inverter is. Even if you're using only 125 watts, it may pull more power than what you're needing.

Ballpark answer: with two batteries, you can probably watch TV for more than 8 hours (no other draw).
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Old 08-11-2015, 10:40 PM   #7
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I have two 6v interstate batteries in series:

Product ID: GC2-XHD-S
Voltage: 6
Termination:
Weight (lbs): 66.7
Width (in): 7.12
Length (in): 10.25
Height (in): 11.12
CAP-20: 232.00
ReserveCapacity-25: 474.00
WET/DRY: W
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Old 08-12-2015, 05:28 AM   #8
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Those are large capacity. 232 AH.
Two of them in series, they're still 232 AH, you don't double the capacity.

Roughly take 232 and divide by the number of amps you're pulling.
For 150 watts, it's roughly 11 amps.

232 / 11 = 21 hours to 100% discharge.

You wouldn't want to run them that low, so take 70% of that... (70% discharge) = 14.7 hours

This assumes no other load and that you're only pulling 150 watts from the battery at the inverter..

Again, this is the math. The actual may depend on the total battery load of your trailer.
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Old 08-12-2015, 06:48 AM   #9
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There would be a parasitic load, but as this is for (going to sleep) my wife has always had to have a TV making little noise in the background to go to sleep. After sticking with me for almost 50 years, I think I can still give her that. It would only be set for 2 to 3 hours at most and then goes off. Now I have to figure the recharge rate with the solar panels the next day. I have two 100w panels again in series, to a MTTP 30 controller. I'll have to check on the web for this one Thank you so much for your help.
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Old 08-19-2015, 03:41 AM   #10
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Television Wattage

Just thought I'd chime in here to add my 'two cents'.

With regards to the probable power consumption of LED HDTVs in the 24" range: I would be ABSOLUTELY ASTOUNDED to find power requirements ANYWHERE NEAR 125 watts.

I had until a few months ago a (2010 Purchased) 22" 1080p LED HDTV mounted over the bedroom 'escape' window in my '08 Cougar 291RLS and just a few months ago I replaced it with a new 24" 1080p LED model.

While I cannot recall EXACTLY, I did measure the ACTUAL WATTS required with a 'Watts-Up' meter and BOTH were/are in the 'just over'/low 20 watts range'. I.e. somewhere around 2-2.5 AMPs of current draw from a 12 volt battery, allowing a bit for 'less than 100% efficiency' in the conversion process.

In addition to my (current) 24" bedroom HDTV, I have a 37" LED HDTV mounted in the 'TV Alcove' in the main room of my 5th. As I recall, (even) IT took just over 50 watts - 54 watts, I think (measured).

"Let's call it 54 watts", which would be around 4.5 amps at 12 volts.

I 'ran' an actual test when I first installed a/my 1 kilowatt inverter, powered off a 'completely isolated from my 5th's main battery', using it to 'drive' the 37 inch TV AND a Satellite HDTV receiver WITH a separate (A/C powered) Hard Drive attached (for PVR functionality) and, as I recall, the TOTAL ACTUAL WATTAGE required was in the low 70 watt range - somewhere between 70 and 75 watts as I recall.

(Again) allowing for inverter losses, I estimated that it was pulling about 7 amps from the battery, rated at about 100 (maybe 110) amp hours SO I/one would have expected to be able to 'more or less safely' pull 7-8 hours of use/current out of the battery before bringing it down to a 50% charge level.

This DID indeed seem to be the case in my tests. Voltage Readings off the battery at the start were JUST OVER 12.9 volts and I was getting readings in the 12.4 volts range at the end of 7 hours CONSTANT use (on the 37 incher).

On the subject of 'inverters': Inverters are (should be obvious) NOT 100% efficient. Having/using a 'too big' inverter at VERY LOW LOADS can mean low(er) rates of efficiency that the aforementioned - possible 'best' 85-90% -AND all inverters a.f.a.i.k., even when not 'driving' anything WILL put a 'parasitic' load on its battery/power source. It may be only 35 ma or so (as in my case) BUT, over 24 hours, you're getting close to an amp (hour) pulled from the battery.

FWIW: MY CURRENT 'let's make A/C from D/C system' consists of a 1 KW Pure Sign Wave inverter powered off of TWO 'Separate and Completely Isolated' (from my Main Batteries, which consist of TWO 6 volt 'Costco' Golf Cart Batteries, wired in series) ***Group 31 AGM Batteries***', one of which is mounted INSIDE the coach bedroom on the floor in the bedroom sink cabinet which ALSO houses the 1 kw inverter. This is connected to an SECOND IDENTICAL Group 31 AGM battery housed in the main storage compartment under the bedroom floor with short 4 gauge cables. This gives me a total rating of about 200-220 amp hours OR 100-110 amp hours of power at 50% 'down' on the AGMs.

Even allowing for a total current draw of maybe (say) 5 amps 'all-in' counting the Sat. Receiver/DVR-HD and the 24" TV - about 5 amps, that's good for about 20-25 hours of viewing (at 50% down). Similarly, I can 'get' maybe 15 hours on my 37 incher before I need to recharge.

Speaking of keeping these AUX AGM batteries fully charged: 'NORMALLY' these AGM batteries are kept 'up to snuff' using a SMALL, FANLESS constantly attached CTek 3.5 amp 'Smart' Charger ('Battery Maintainer') via Shore Line A/C when available.

To allow for cases when shore line A/C is NOT available, I also carry with me and use, as required, a 12 (max) amp 'Smart Charger' which I power off a Champion 2KW Inverter Generator. (No point in having a Bigger, (theoretically faster) Charger if you only 'take' a battery down 50% or so as Internal Resistance in the battery will tend to cause bigger (e.g. 25 amp max) chargers to 'throttle down' to much lower (than 'max') charge rates in short order.

Oh, by the way, should anyone be interested: I noticed a few days ago that (at least, 'MY') Costco in Canada is 'end of season clearing' their Golf Cart batteries at $99.97. I wasn't INTENDING to 'upgrade to' G.C. batteries 'so soon' but LAST SUMMER the clearance price was $79.97 SO... I picked up two and did the changeover, using them to replace my single Group 31 'Flooded' Main Battery.

Nice to now have 220 or so amp hours that I would not be so reluctant to drawn down more than 50% on occasion, if I wanted to,

Oh, and one REALLY final thing: some (many?) really small screen LED HDTVs really DO 'USE' 12 volts, and come with a small Transformer/Power Supply which converts 120 VAC to 12 VDC ANYWAY.

If such is the case with YOUR TV, you might just consider converting it/wiring it up to use 12 volts DC directly from a battery and avoid, at least as far as the TV is concerned anyway, inverter conversion losses.

Hope this helps.
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Old 08-19-2015, 04:06 AM   #11
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Hammertoe, thanks for all the work you put into that response. I had to read it twice to make sure it all sunk in. I also was about to say how little a 24" Sony television drew.....about 26 watts on our meter. Now for my question. We have a 800 watt inverter that we use in our pickup to power a small refrigerator and a 20 watt light bulb. As soon as the truck shuts off, the inverter senses that the battery it is connected to is not being charged and it shuts down in about 5 minutes. This is a Stanley brand and does all this automatically. Did we just buy the wrong brand or should there be an override somewhere that I don't know about?
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Old 08-19-2015, 05:48 AM   #12
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HammerToe - thank you for your response. While I had to read it a couple time and still may again, it falls in line with what I have done so far. I ended up with a hard wired 1200w inverter, more than I'll currently use in my configuration. I dedicated a line just for the two TV's and for miscellaneous items, like computer charging, etc. The smaller TV indeed took much less wattage. With the way I have it set it draws 32 watts. I ran the TV for 8 hours during the day and with the solar charging away I didn't see much drop. I still have not ran it at night by itself for testing but I'm sure I will have enough 12v power to accomplish what I needed and them some. That night test comes in October.
Again, very nice writeup and I thank you for taking the time to do so.
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4 - 100w mono solar panels with MPPT40 to charge four 6v batteries with 440amp hours.
Progressive Industries HW50c surge protector
1800 / 3600 inverter with auto transfer switch,
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Old 08-19-2015, 02:34 PM   #13
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Attn: NoTanLines

Not being familiar with the exact unit (model#) you are referring to or otherwise having had any personal experience with (what might be) 'it', not sure that I can help you out here.

BUT: I took a 'crack' at a quick search Amazon.COM for "Stanley 800 Watt Inverter" and can up with THIS: http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-PC809-...ct_top?ie=UTF8

(Note: I'm not sure if it's permissible to post actual LINKS in the forum so maybe it might be edited out. If so, sorry).

IN any event, I got a 'Hit' on a "Stanley PC809 800 Watt Inverter" and checked out some of the FEEDBACK/REVIEWS and it would seem that (assuming this IS your unit), it did NOT get very good reviews (based on my experience).

Fully 50% of respondents gave it only 1 or 2 stars and a quick read of a couple of 'not good' reviews suggested (a) that what you are experiencing is quite common and (b) that there may well be NO WAY to 'configure' your way out of your situation.

You might wish to do some reading at Amazon as well and draw your own conclusion(s) but my 'gut' tells me your likely 'out of luck' and that your best option, if available to you, would be to return it if you can and get another better rated one if possible.

There is some question as to the 'honesty' of the reviews on Amazon BUT I think that that criticism probably applies to the Really Gushy Positive Rave Ones and not the more negative.

I very frequently, when considering a purchase, will check 'A.C.' to check out reviews before purchasing an item from there or elsewhere. I do think it helps.

Good Luck.
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Old 08-20-2015, 04:41 AM   #14
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Thanks, Hammer. We have had this thing for a few years. I think I'll just mosey on down the Amazon path to another brand with better reviews.
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Old 08-27-2015, 02:59 PM   #15
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Inverter Install

My install is nearing completion. I have a 1200w continuous / 2400w surge pure sine wave with automatic transfer switch / hardwire. I removed the wires in the PC which feed each of the two TVs, a breaker for each, and replaced both breakers with one 20a breaker. From here I am feeding the AC In on the inverter. So it is now ran through the 20a breaker. From there, for the AC Out, I am running 14 gauge wire from the inverter to a utility box where I will splice in the two TV circuits. The question has risen do I need a sub panel at this stage? I think not, but would like some input. This would be on the AC out line or can I just tie in the wire to the existing wire that fed the two TV's circuits. Both TV's would never be running at the same time anyway. The whole process allows me to feed 120v to the inverter that is breaker protected and only supplies inverted power to the two TV circuits and a couple others that I have clearly marked as inverter power.

For the battery side I am using 1/0 cable from the inverter to the batteries. I also installed a remote near the inside panel. The on off button on the remote will completely shut down the inverter, fan and all. I installed the inverter 3 feet from the batteries in the front bay compartment. I separated the batteries and the inverter with a ½" Lexan divider I custom fitted in the front basement. So there are actually two separate sides to the front basement. This was to isolate the batteries (when charging, as I have two solar panels that charge during the day) and the possible gas that is emitted from the charging process. I'm sure it is probably overdone and over cautions but better safe than sorry they say.

Do enough research and one is bound to find the answer, and I did. It is suggested that a sub panel, should be added between the AC out and the receptacles in the trailer. Not needed to work, but highly suggested. So I already found a nice 20-amp 120/240 volt 5000 watt fused general duty safety switch at Home Depot (21.50), will pick this up tomorrow and add it inline.
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Old 08-28-2015, 06:14 AM   #16
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It'd be easier to follow with a diagram, but I think you're asking if you need a sub-panel to split out the separate 14GA TV connections from the inverter output?

If I've got it wrong - correct me please, as the answer may change:

I can't tell from the description if you have a breaker after the inverter. I assume you don't. If the inverter has overload protection, you shouldn't need an additional breaker or sub-panel on the output.

Again, subject to having overload protection... Have a link to your inverter?
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Old 08-28-2015, 04:56 PM   #17
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I agree with the diagram as I'm the same way. But, that means I have to draw it In the manual input over and under voltage shutdown, over temp, over load protection and although protected on the output, a sub panel is suggested and so I now have one. It is an AIMS power inverter Pure Sine Wave.

OK have to fix my fast drawn layout. First the 150a fuse is not on the negative cable but is on the positive cable side. Next, neutral line goes to neutral buss bar and ground to ground buss bar not both to neutral as I drew, man I hate finding mistakes in my own drawings. The rest is as shown. What is not shown is the automatic transfer switch which works off of the AC in line. The switching device is internal of the inverter.

I should add, that the battery cable should be as short as possible. But keep in mind that there is an automatic switching device in the inverter that makes a spark, you won't see it, but it should be mentioned that you don't want it right on top ( actually low) in line with the battery. They give off a gas when charging that is explosive. I build a divider in the forward compartment just for this reason. The hydrogen gas is lighter than air and my inverter is on the wall. I also have my batteries in a vented battery box, I just really like safety. Oh, and I used 1/0 battery cable.
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4 - 100w mono solar panels with MPPT40 to charge four 6v batteries with 440amp hours.
Progressive Industries HW50c surge protector
1800 / 3600 inverter with auto transfer switch,
The bosses: My wife and two Labradoddles 80 lbs each
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Old 10-19-2015, 05:36 PM   #18
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Final Inverter Install

Well a lot has happened sense August 28, when I started this topic. But I'm better than ever so I'm back to it. So I finished my inverter install today. All works GREAT! So I'm done with the electronics now. So off to the beach next week to test it all out, can't wait. Here is the final picture.

I wired in this order. I disconnected the wires from the Receptacle breaker and ran the In cable for the inverter from this breaker. I then ran the out wires from the inverter and tied them into the wires that I removed from the Receptacle breaker giving me all those receptacles inverter power when needed. I ran the 1/0 battery cable through a disconnect switch and on to a 150 amp fuse before connecting to the positive terminal of the battery. Negative cable went direct to the battery. The disconnect switch is only when I store it. I have mounted a remote control near the rest of my control center for a way to keep any eye on it. I also ran an chassis ground from the inverter to the chassis of the trailer. - job done.
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