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Old 11-25-2021, 06:03 AM   #21
Stircrazy
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Originally Posted by rhagfo View Post
Really would like you to get safely into a 5er, due to better towing characteristics.

You estimated 450# for passengers, yet you have lost 729# from your sticker payload. What have you added to the TV since new that took the other 279#?

.
he didnt add anything, the sticker payload is based of a baseline bare bones modle of the truck. they are worse than rv dealers for there dry weight. unless you get the two door, short box, small engine etc.. that number will never be right, thats why I go with rear axel weight and ratings.

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Old 11-25-2021, 06:04 AM   #22
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ok so dont worry about the total weight or the "payload" rating, they are nothing. what matters is the individul axel weights and raitings. what did you rear axel actualy weight and what does the door say is the max for REAR GVW. that will give you your true payload you have left over.
And away we go!
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Old 11-25-2021, 06:11 AM   #23
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ok so dont worry about the total weight or the "payload" rating, they are nothing. what matters is the individul axel weights and raitings. what did you rear axel actualy weight and what does the door say is the max for REAR GVW. that will give you your true payload you have left over.
I disagree. The maximum weight rating numbers are not a "must exceed all" but rather cannot exceed ANY gross weights. It's understood that you cannot exceed gross (maximum) vehichle weight OR gross front axle weight OR gross rear axle weight. Saying only the rear axle gross applies is like saying yes I ran the red light but it's ok because I was doing the speed limit.
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Old 11-25-2021, 06:12 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Stircrazy View Post
he didnt add anything, the sticker payload is based of a baseline bare bones modle of the truck. they are worse than rv dealers for there dry weight. unless you get the two door, short box, small engine etc.. that number will never be right, thats why I go with rear axel weight and ratings.

Steve
His payload is off his door sticker.
There is a Site Team member with a very similar 5er that tow it with a F250 diesel, so less available payload. He does it within all numbers, just needs to watch what he takes with him.
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Old 11-25-2021, 06:58 AM   #25
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Just curious about how the payload placard rating, if for the "base model" could be different on every truck that has the same base model? So many expert and so little time.
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Old 11-25-2021, 07:14 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Stircrazy View Post
he didnt add anything, the sticker payload is based of a baseline bare bones modle of the truck. they are worse than rv dealers for there dry weight. unless you get the two door, short box, small engine etc.. that number will never be right, thats why I go with rear axel weight and ratings.

Steve
That's totally false. Payload on the placard is specific to each truck. Payload is simply truck GVWR minus truck weight. If I understand you correctly, every 1/2 ton truck would have the same (max. payload) value listed, which it does not.

Ford claims a potential 3200 lbs or so payload with a 'properly equipped' F150, but you will be hard pressed to find that on any door sticker. If every member here with an F150 were to post a pic of their door sticker no two would be the same.
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Old 11-25-2021, 08:15 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Stircrazy View Post
he didnt add anything, the sticker payload is based of a baseline bare bones modle of the truck. they are worse than rv dealers for there dry weight. unless you get the two door, short box, small engine etc.. that number will never be right, thats why I go with rear axel weight and ratings.

Steve
Once again you are giving bad advice. The payload sticker is the difference between the vehicle GVWR and it’s weight as it rolled off the assembly line, with allowance for a 150# driver and full fuel.
Exceeding the vehicle GVWR puts one in legal limbo. While you may not get ticketed for being overweight, in a civil lawsuit you could be found at fault for being over a weight that the manufacturer states as being unsafe to exceed.
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Old 11-25-2021, 08:33 AM   #28
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Each individual truck has it's own individual weight limits posted on the drivers door, none of which should be exceeded, you can't pick/chose which one applies to you.
Also to state the the amount that can be loaded into the rv if cut in half would get them by the weights is only fooling themselves, the rv WILL be loaded to the max sooner than later, stuff gets added in & never taken out. If you've traded rvs & transferred your stuff from one to the other you'll know this is a fact, you'll wonder where it all came from.
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Old 11-25-2021, 10:56 AM   #29
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Thanks everyone for all the feedback. I’m think we’ll go back to the travel trailer route. I know I’ll be giving up some towing capabilities but I can get a similar sided (and similar floor plan) TT and be well within the truck’s limits (and still have room in the bed for things.

I’m not sure that I’m comfortable being that close to max capability (vs GVWR) nor having to maniacally stress over the exact weight I’m loading into the 5er.

Again, all your feedback was very helpful! Thanks
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Old 11-27-2021, 08:31 AM   #30
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Once again you are giving bad advice. The payload sticker is the difference between the vehicle GVWR and it’s weight as it rolled off the assembly line, with allowance for a 150# driver and full fuel.
Exceeding the vehicle GVWR puts one in legal limbo. While you may not get ticketed for being overweight, in a civil lawsuit you could be found at fault for being over a weight that the manufacturer states as being unsafe to exceed.
I said payload is an arbratrary number that has no basis in reality. we all know we can go into any registration place and pay extra to increase the GVWR of your truck to pretty much any number you want, with in reason, so how is that a hard number. out here when they pull you over they look at the tire raitings and axel ratings if anything at all.

My GVWR is 11500 on my truck, and says the payload is is 4000lbs actualy like 4120 ior something stupid like that. but yet my truck weights 8400lbs so to stay with in the gvwr that leaves me 3100 lbs of payload. but for some reason if I add 4000lbs then I am still within my rear axel raiting, so are they basing the payload off the gvwr or the rear axel.

so bad advice no, common sence yes, if you are under your rear axel but over your gvwr then re register your truck with the gvwr you need. the issue is the GVWR is for truck loads and assumes no extra braking forces so it is taking into account the brakes and such of the truck its self, once you add a trailer/5th wheel that is a moote point as you have a lot of extra braking force. as long as you don't overload any axel or tire I still say your fine, and that has been backed by the inspectors out here. they said you "should" reregister to a higher gvwr if you are over but they don't worry about recreational trailers. now if you had a trailer hauling company up here you better have the right registration. we also need a aditional drivers licence endorsemtent in BC to pull over 10400lbs and stuff like this is in the training. now every provence in cnada has different regulations, for instance alberta doesnt need a heavy tow endorsemnt to my knolawage and they cn tow tandom as long as the first unit is a 5th wheel, and I know from the other forums I read the US is simular so check with your local state and see what there rules are . most of the US people I see in other forums just re register to a higher GVWR, so if you can pay 50 buck and get another 4000lbs how is they a valid number?
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Old 11-27-2021, 02:47 PM   #31
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I said payload is an arbratrary number that has no basis in reality. we all know we can go into any registration place and pay extra to increase the GVWR of your truck to pretty much any number you want, with in reason, so how is that a hard number. out here when they pull you over they look at the tire raitings and axel ratings if anything at all.

My GVWR is 11500 on my truck, and says the payload is is 4000lbs actualy like 4120 ior something stupid like that. but yet my truck weights 8400lbs so to stay with in the gvwr that leaves me 3100 lbs of payload. but for some reason if I add 4000lbs then I am still within my rear axel raiting, so are they basing the payload off the gvwr or the rear axel.

so bad advice no, common sence yes, if you are under your rear axel but over your gvwr then re register your truck with the gvwr you need. the issue is the GVWR is for truck loads and assumes no extra braking forces so it is taking into account the brakes and such of the truck its self, once you add a trailer/5th wheel that is a moote point as you have a lot of extra braking force. as long as you don't overload any axel or tire I still say your fine, and that has been backed by the inspectors out here. they said you "should" reregister to a higher gvwr if you are over but they don't worry about recreational trailers. now if you had a trailer hauling company up here you better have the right registration. we also need a aditional drivers licence endorsemtent in BC to pull over 10400lbs and stuff like this is in the training. now every provence in cnada has different regulations, for instance alberta doesnt need a heavy tow endorsemnt to my knolawage and they cn tow tandom as long as the first unit is a 5th wheel, and I know from the other forums I read the US is simular so check with your local state and see what there rules are . most of the US people I see in other forums just re register to a higher GVWR, so if you can pay 50 buck and get another 4000lbs how is they a valid number?

You're wrong again. Yes, I can go to the DMV and tell them to register my truck for "xyz" gvw within limits. That is strictly a clerical thing and CAN get you if you pay fees for say an 8800lb. truck and run constantly at 12k then get caught.

Payload is as Russ said; GVWR less the weight of the truck....period. Axles have no bearing on payload or gvwr, simply tell you the max weight either axle can have on it - max them both out and you will exceed gvw and payload. The payload sticker becomes meaningless once an owner begins to add "stuff, bling" etc. to the truck, that's when the gvwr comes into play.....which is stamped on a placard right on my truck - what's on the "registration" is irrelevant.
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Old 11-27-2021, 06:34 PM   #32
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Axles have no bearing on payload or gvwr, simply tell you the max weight either axle can have on it

This is where things get fuzzy for a logical person..... Axles should have A LOT to do with your GVWR. (as you pointed out they don't in the US)


Logically... even if I'm within payloads, I wouldn't put 2500lbs over a 3500lb rear axle. But I would put 2500lbs over a 6500lb rear axle all day long.
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Old 11-27-2021, 06:54 PM   #33
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This is where things get fuzzy for a logical person..... Axles should have A LOT to do with your GVWR. (as you pointed out they don't in the US)


Logically... even if I'm within payloads, I wouldn't put 2500lbs over a 3500lb rear axle. But I would put 2500lbs over a 6500lb rear axle all day long.
I think you missed the point being made.

It matters not whether you have a 2000 pound rear axle or a 20000 pound rear axle. The payload is calculated based on truck GVWR minus curb weight. The remaining weight is called "payload"... Payload has NOTHING to do with axle ratings.....

Granted, on a typical truck, the larger the payload the larger the axle ratings, but ..... Axle ratings do not have any direct bearing on payload or how it's calculated. It's simply two numbers, GVWR minus Curb Weight....
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Old 11-27-2021, 06:58 PM   #34
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I think you missed the point being made.

It matters not whether you have a 2000 pound rear axle or a 20000 pound rear axle. The payload is calculated based on truck GVWR minus curb weight. The remaining weight is called "payload"... Payload has NOTHING to do with axle ratings.....

Granted, on a typical truck, the larger the payload the larger the axle ratings, but ..... Axle ratings do not have any direct bearing on payload or how it's calculated. It's simply two numbers, GVWR and Curb Weight....

No, I got the point exactly when I said Axles should have A LOT to do with GVWR Axle capacity should have a significant impact on the maximum rated weight of a vehicle. Without GVWR you can't calculate payload. Axle ratings having nothing to do with GVWR seems mind boggling.
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Old 11-27-2021, 07:35 PM   #35
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No, I got the point exactly when I said Axles should have A LOT to do with GVWR Axle capacity should have a significant impact on the maximum rated weight of a vehicle. Without GVWR you can't calculate payload. Axle ratings having nothing to do with GVWR seems mind boggling.

I think what many folks don't get is that the axle ratings are the MAX that particular axle can carry....no safety margin, no nothing. When folks think they then can load to the max axle ratings, then exceed it by 200-2000lbs., then they have gone past the ultimate barrier of safety by a large margin. The different "layers" of weight limits are there for a reason, to keep you safe, AND give a margin of safety for those that think "payload" is a meaningless number plus, axles are loaded by different folks in various ways; I've seen some really wacky loading that in some cases probably used the entire gawr for both axles on the rear - guess they followed that guideline of "load to the max of the total axles"..... Heaven help those on the road with those "enlightened" people.
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Old 11-27-2021, 08:03 PM   #36
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I think what many folks don't get is that the axle ratings are the MAX that particular axle can carry....no safety margin, no nothing. When folks think they then can load to the max axle ratings, then exceed it by 200-2000lbs., then they have gone past the ultimate barrier of safety by a large margin. The different "layers" of weight limits are there for a reason, to keep you safe, AND give a margin of safety for those that think "payload" is a meaningless number plus, axles are loaded by different folks in various ways; I've seen some really wacky loading that in some cases probably used the entire gawr for both axles on the rear - guess they followed that guideline of "load to the max of the total axles"..... Heaven help those on the road with those "enlightened" people.

Understood... Here's a scary fact.... I weighed my 6.7 Diesel... Front axle weight is 5700lbs on a sticker rated 6000lb axle... That means my bone stock truck is running withing 300lbs of max, all day long.



So... in theory any new Dodge 6.7 Diesel 2500 or 3500 (they have the same axles) with an aftermarket front bumper is probably overweight Sorry Texans
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Old 11-28-2021, 06:32 AM   #37
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I think some confusion over axle weights vs payload vs gvwr is in how those components interact. A max axle axle rating is just that, the maximum amount of weight that axle can support without failing.

Let's look at rear axle weights as many folks think that directly sets or should set the payload. That GRAWR number however does not mean that the truck's bed will support that much weight. It also doesn't mean that the frame won't twist or the driveline won't fail, or the transmisdion won't "grenade" if loaded to the GRAWR. It simply means the rear axle and ONLY the rear axle can support that much weight.

At the end of the day those numbers are set by the manufacturer becwuse the government says they have to. How do the manufacturer derive to those numbers? You'll have to contact them to answer that. But there it is, the "do not exceed ..." displayed on every truck. Exceed those numbers and no alarms go off, the police don’t get called, and many folks motor on every day over the payload rating. Many folks also cruise along with no insurance, suspended license, and exceeding the speed limit or impaired. And just like driving without a valid license or insurance no one may ever know unless you are involved in an accident. If that accident results in death or injury you can pretty much bet it will be a subject of discussion.
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Old 11-28-2021, 06:41 AM   #38
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Understood... Here's a scary fact.... I weight my 6.7 Diesel... Front axle weight is 5700lbs on a sticker rated 6000lb axle... That means my bone stock truck is running withing 300lbs of max, all day long.



So... in theory any new Dodge 6.7 Diesel 2500 or 3500 (they have the same axles) with an aftermarket front bumper is probably overweight Sorry Texans
Looks like the roads are unsafe even without rv's on the trucks..scarey im gonna start walking.
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Old 11-28-2021, 07:35 AM   #39
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Looks like the roads are unsafe even without rv's on the trucks..scarey im gonna start walking.

Whoa there Nelly!! Start walking?? Even if I could figure out a contraption to strap on my shoulders so I could pull the trailer I figure I would be even more of a distraction/hazard for other drivers. Nah, might be better off to take a bottle of valium (never took one) to relieve that anxiety and join the other oblivious drivers on the road.....

Disclaimer: The above is said in jest only. I do not advocate driving anything under the influence of anything other than good sense and caution.
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Old 11-28-2021, 03:26 PM   #40
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Thanks everyone for all the feedback. I’m think we’ll go back to the travel trailer route. I know I’ll be giving up some towing capabilities but I can get a similar sided (and similar floor plan) TT and be well within the truck’s limits (and still have room in the bed for things.
I know 5ers are trendy, but there's a lot to love about travel trailers. Especially if you ever begin to enter that twilight zone where Stairs Are Not Your Friends.
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