Scratching my Head

[rlh1957]

Just for kicks and giggles and an excuse to pop a few cold ones.
Get out the bathroom scales and unload just you underneath garage…

First, each of you write down a guesstimate of what weight you have added just to garage.
Then weigh every cleaner, roll of duct tape, fittings, hoses, cords, jacks, tool boxes, chairs, fishing gear, spray lubricants, WD40, wash, black tank and grey treatments, compressor, sewer hoses and fittings, etc.

I was surprised how much every ounce and pound added up. I wasn’t over thank goodness, but much more than I thought. Ofcourse CAT had already shown me what it was… just wanted to find out where!

We then did inside pantry, fridge, cooking utensils, bath accessories, clothes, blankets, added second television.

I use stickers on RV as a general guide, but until it’s put on certified CAT the dry empty factory weight is a questionable number.

[aehjr]

Just thought I'd provide another data point to the pin weight conversation. Advertised pin weight on our trailer is 3120 lbs.
CAT scale pin weight has consistently been in the 3400-3500 lb range when loaded for a three week trip and with two motorcycles in the back. This is with no water in the tanks and the trailer under the 17,000 lb gross vehicle weight.
I've done the math (I'm a retired engineer) and know that if the 1100 lbs of motorcycles weren't in the garage, the pin weight would be another 2-300 lb heavier.

[jimborokz]

Just to add some data, the last time out and loaded to the hilt including extra stuff we were hauling to our daughter's I ran through the scales and did the calculations. Pin weight came out to 20%. Just for the heck of it I looked at the brochure specs and the pin weight there was just 20%. At least they got one thing right.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by RickV

I keep thinking about how we could be carrying that much stuff and I just can't fathom it. I may be wrong, I guess I'll find out when I get home and unload it and run it over the scales again.

Have you looked in the storage under the bed? Maybe your DW has 60 pairs of shoes and a cast iron pan collection under there

[RickV]

So we are now home and I have a appointment for warranty service on Nov. 23rd. I decided to unload everything that wasn't bolted down except for the propane tanks and the batteries (The DW wasn't to happy about this but obliged ). On my way to the dealer I will stop at the CAT Scales and see what the weight is empty. After unloading and looking at everything I still cannot believe that we had anywhere near the 2992 even allowing for propane tanks and batteries. Will post back next week after I do the weighing.

[Third Degree]

Might as well do it right. Fill those propane tanks up full then weigh.

[RickV]

My plans to weigh the unloaded 5er slightly changed. I decided to do it on the way home and top off with Diesel using the TSD card. When I picked it up the batteries were discharged and they had to use a jumpbox so I could use the jacks to hook up so I knew when I got to the scales I wouldn't be able to drop the 5er and weigh it. So i just came home with it. I knew it would be out of the Pole Barn for a few days this past weekend and I would just take it to the CAT Scales when I hooked it up. So today I take it to the scales to get a unloaded weight. I am now even more confused. I weighed the Truck and 5er then I dropped the 5er on the scales to get a GVW of just the 5er.

From Keystone's webpage the GVWR is 16500lb and cargo capability of "2992lbs". This is why I was like there is no way I am hauling that much crap.

Keystone's numbers on the sticker are:
Unloaded Vehicle Weight 13840
GVWR 16500
Cargo Carrying Capacity 2149
Says this was calculated with the water tank full 451lb and the waste tanks empty.

So I start doing some ciphering

16500-13840=2660lbs
2660-2149=511lbs

People have said that the weights on the sticker do not include Batteries or Propane tanks so I looked up weights on them
The brand of Batteries I have are 53lbs each so 106lbs
Propane Tanks Full are 57lbs each so 114lbs
So 511-220=291lbs
The Fresh water tank is empty as are the Grey Tanks. There are a few gallons in the Black Tank even if 5 gallons 40lbs+-
291-40=251
I have a Dish Wally and a small form factor PC both maybe 10lbs.
251-10=241lbs
So 2149+241=2390lbs available for cargo.

5er weight with batteries, propane tanks, Wally, small PC and maybe 5 gallons of water: 14440lbs
14440-13840=600lbs
600-241=351lbs
Somewhere there is 300+lbs unaccounted for if I did my ciphering correctly.

When we reload the 5er we are going to actually think about what we load as we didn't use half the stuff we took and probably took stuff just because we had lots of room for it compared to the old 5er.

[flybouy]

RickV here's the simple truth about weight, it's a real number when read from a scale only. I have yet to see a "published weight" that was accurate. Deal in real numbers and not try to get the real number to match a published "guesstimate ", you'll drive yourselk insane.

[RickV]

Originally Posted by flybouy

RickV here's the simple truth about weight, it's a real number when read from a scale only. I have yet to see a "published weight" that was accurate. Deal in real numbers and not try to get the real number to match a published "guesstimate ", you'll drive yourselk insane.

That the point I was trying to make in the long winded post. They throw numbers out there in different places and they never match up. I now have a baseline to work from and will adjust accordingly.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by RickV

That the point I was trying to make in the long winded post. They throw numbers out there in different places and they never match up. I now have a baseline to work from and will adjust accordingly.

Then I mis interpreted your post. What a lot of folks don't understand is that there's a dramatic difference between the auto industry and the RV industry besides the night and day diff. in regulatory rules and oversite.

In the auto industry the entire process is tightly controlled with exacting material compositions and densities. At the end of the line it's computer weighed and a weight sticker applied. The RV industry is more akin to building a house and slapping wheels under it. Strarting at the frame I'll bet no two "identical" frames will have the same weight. Welder A may use a lot more weld than welder B. Steel compositions, enen the amount of grease in the bearings will vary. Now that may be relativly minor added to the other variables in marrerial such as plywood, interior veneers, cabinets, etc. and the cumulative difference can become quite noticable.

Add in the "small print" disclosures on the exclusions to those published weights and the "substitutions" the variables in weight grow. The published weights have a lot of latitude built in and the advertising dept. uses that to their advantage. This is what gets so many new owners into trouble when shopping for a trailer and a tow vehicle. Far to many use the published numbers for both, make their purchase based on a truck that actually doesn't exist to pull a trailer that'll end up weighing thousands of pounds more than their calculations accounted for. Its a sad methodology the industry uses and we see the folks that fall prey to the salesman reinforcing it with great regularity on the forum.

[JRTJH]

To add to Marshall's comments, leave a pallet of luan paneling out in the humidity on a "wet day" and then build a trailer with that luan on all the interior walls and as backing under the FILON vs building a trailer with "dry luan" will make a significant difference in the "weight at the end of the assembly line at the factory". Tow that trailer to Ohio and let it sit for 60 days and tow an "identical trailer" to Las Vegas and let it sit for 60 days and there will be a significant difference in the weights of the two trailers.

Heck, just weigh any trailer when it's dry and then tow it for 500 miles during a rain storm and reweigh it and you'll get a "big difference" in starting weight and ending weight. All those "holes in the frame that lead to the belly (above the waterproof coroplast) aren't without consequence.....

[Balvar24]

Just do what I do.

After the wife loads everything up. Go out and remove 1/2.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Balvar24

Just do what I do.

After the wife loads everything up. Go out and remove 1/2.

Ohhh Roy, oh Roy! Your suggestion would probably put an end to my long lived bliss. There are few things worse than ticking off "she who wields the power". "She" knows the loading and directs me as such I did ask that after this trip (5 mos.) if I could bring more than 1 pr. of socks, jeans and underwear.....that's a long time to "stick" with something.

[notanlines]

Originally Posted by Balvar24

Just do what I do.

After the wife loads everything up. Go out and remove 1/2.

Balvar, we've all noticed that you don't have a signature supporting the number of years of happy bliss. I expect your post is the reason....

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Ohhh Roy, oh Roy! ...

For some reason, Murry Kellum singing Long Tall Texan popped into my head... Now I'll be "mentally singing that song all day"... (DW doesn't allow me to "sing out loud")...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRQJTFh4V2w

[Brentw]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

For some reason, Murry Kellum singing Long Tall Texan popped into my head... Now I'll be "mentally singing that song all day"... (DW doesn't allow me to "sing out loud")...

Haha, thanks for that, gonna be rattling around in my coconut for the day now.

[Balvar24]

Originally Posted by notanlines

Balvar, we've all noticed that you don't have a signature supporting the number of years of happy bliss. I expect your post is the reason....

To be honest, its never occurred to me that such things were of interest to anyone but us.

We haven't been around as long as some you guys, but we've been happy as long as we've been around.

[Stircrazy]

Originally Posted by RickV

My plans to weigh the unloaded 5er slightly changed. I decided to do it on the way home and top off with Diesel using the TSD card. When I picked it up the batteries were discharged and they had to use a jumpbox so I could use the jacks to hook up so I knew when I got to the scales I wouldn't be able to drop the 5er and weigh it. So i just came home with it. I knew it would be out of the Pole Barn for a few days this past weekend and I would just take it to the CAT Scales when I hooked it up. So today I take it to the scales to get a unloaded weight. I am now even more confused. I weighed the Truck and 5er then I dropped the 5er on the scales to get a GVW of just the 5er.

From Keystone's webpage the GVWR is 16500lb and cargo capability of "2992lbs". This is why I was like there is no way I am hauling that much crap.

Keystone's numbers on the sticker are:
Unloaded Vehicle Weight 13840
GVWR 16500
Cargo Carrying Capacity 2149
Says this was calculated with the water tank full 451lb and the waste tanks empty.

So I start doing some ciphering

16500-13840=2660lbs
2660-2149=511lbs

People have said that the weights on the sticker do not include Batteries or Propane tanks so I looked up weights on them
The brand of Batteries I have are 53lbs each so 106lbs
Propane Tanks Full are 57lbs each so 114lbs
So 511-220=291lbs
The Fresh water tank is empty as are the Grey Tanks. There are a few gallons in the Black Tank even if 5 gallons 40lbs+-
291-40=251
I have a Dish Wally and a small form factor PC both maybe 10lbs.
251-10=241lbs
So 2149+241=2390lbs available for cargo.

5er weight with batteries, propane tanks, Wally, small PC and maybe 5 gallons of water: 14440lbs
14440-13840=600lbs
600-241=351lbs
Somewhere there is 300+lbs unaccounted for if I did my ciphering correctly.

When we reload the 5er we are going to actually think about what we load as we didn't use half the stuff we took and probably took stuff just because we had lots of room for it compared to the old 5er.

you also forgot the weight of the microwave, AC, awnings, solar panels and any other optional packages they add on. these are not concidered in the base weight. my 5th was quite a bit heavier than advertised when I got it. I am assuming you have the weight of the 5th hitch counted for already, a lot of people forget about that also.

its even more exagerated in the truck camper world as some companies include the weight of the propane, full fresh water tank and some don't . , but then you have non optional packages that add 500lbs, plus the weight of all the optional stuff. so a 2800lb camper ends up tipping the scales at 4000lbs before you put any of your stuff in.....

there are a couple companies like bigfoot, eagle cap,and adventure that also do a out the door with factory installed option weights and hand write it on the paper glued to the inside of the cupboard door. but if the dealer adds anything you negoceated then that wouldnt be included.

Steve

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by Stircrazy

you also forgot the weight of the microwave, AC, awnings, solar panels and any other optional packages they add on. these are not concidered in the base weight. my 5th was quite a bit heavier than advertised when I got it. I am assuming you have the weight of the 5th hitch counted for already, a lot of people forget about that also.

its even more exagerated in the truck camper world as some companies include the weight of the propane, full fresh water tank and some don't . , but then you have non optional packages that add 500lbs, plus the weight of all the optional stuff. so a 2800lb camper ends up tipping the scales at 4000lbs before you put any of your stuff in.....

there are a couple companies like bigfoot, eagle cap,and adventure that also do a out the door with factory installed option weights and hand write it on the paper glued to the inside of the cupboard door. but if the dealer adds anything you negoceated then that wouldnt be included.

Steve

Companies like Lance give weights for their truck top campers. If you are interested in a specific model, go to the Lance forum (I am a member) and ask for a real weight and most are 1000-1500 lbs over what Lance claims. I know as I owned a Lance truck top camper and had it on an F150 (no bueno!).

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by RickV

When I picked it up the batteries were discharged and they had to use a jumpbox so I could use the jacks to hook up so I knew when I got to the scales I wouldn't be able to drop the 5er and weigh it. So i just came home with it.

If you can park your truck close enough to your rig (without hitching up) to plug in the connector cable, you can typically run your jacks off that power. We've had to use that trick at our dealer's service facility . Some later model trucks have to be in gear to deliver power, though, so take note.