Check my math

[bm1ll]

So...first time poster on here. I've been reading forum posts for quite a while and I have to admit that I'm a little confused. Seems like a lot of opinions but not a whole lot of straight answers. So, let me just ask my question.



I have a 2021 Ram 2500 with 4.10 gears and the 6.4l gasser. Payload rating of 3049 (according to the sticker in the door). I was originally going to purchase my first travel trailer but have been convinced my family to look at a fifth wheel.



The wife and I have settled on a Cougar 24RDS but now I'm starting to worry that I don't have enough truck for it. Can someone take a look at my numbers and let me know what they think?



24RDS

Unloaded Weight: 7,310lbs

GVWR: 10,000lbs

GAWR (each axle): 4400lbs



2500:

Max Payload: 3029lbs

5th wheel hitch: 300lbs

Passengers: 450lbs



Based on these numbers:

Pin weight: 1462 - 2000lbs (let's assume 2000lbs)



3029lbs (gross payload) - 2000lb (pin weight) - 450lb (passengers) - 300lbs (hitch) = 279lbs (breathing room)



If I'm doing the math right, I'm thinking that at max load in the trailer, I'm at 90% of my towing capacity. That has me nervous. What do you think? I would think that I would rarely be at max capacity but this is my first trailer so I'm just guessing, Should I go back to looking at TTs? No, a new truck is not in the cards.



Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[markcee]

You are going about the math the right way. When you don't have the trailer to weigh, all you can do is guesstimate like this. One tweak to make would be to estimate 22% of the 10K GVWR as pin weight....this would make it actually 2200 lbs.

Although you don't have the trailer yet, you do have the truck. Since that sticker payload was only valid when the truck rolled off the assembly line I suggest loading up completely for camping....all gear, all passengers, and pets, top off the fuel tank and hit up a CAT scale. Subtract this loaded-for-camping CAT scale weight from your truck's listed GVWR....also on the door panel sticker. This remainder will be what you actually have left to support the weight of the pin and the hitch.

[Roper46]

Originally Posted by bm1ll

I have a 2021 Ram 2500 with 4.10 gears and the 6.4l gasser. Payload rating of 3049 (according to the sticker in the door). I was originally going to purchase my first travel trailer but have been convinced my family to look at a fifth wheel.

As stated you already have the truck and a big advantage to my Ram diesel. My payload is only 2097#, damn Cummins are heavy. When I weighed my rig last month at a CAT scale headed to a campground, I was about 200# over payload. However, I do have a 2022 GMC 3500 SRW with Duramac and the Allison 10 speed on order.

Good luck with your decision and purchase.

[NMRandy]

Any tow vehicle loaded at or close to max payload will make the suspension "soft", and more reactive to wind when on the road. The travel trailer, depending on length, ect., will also react to wind with sway more than the fifth wheel. A good hitch with sway control, will reduce the sway greatly. The travel trailer also has a lower profile than the fifth wheel, making it easier to tow, (better gas mileage). With the gas engine, you will be in the slow lane on the big hills, especially at altitude. That truck will handle that fifth wheel ok, just take your time and be safe!

[bm1ll]

I just loaded up the truck and took it to the CAT scales. Tare weight was 7720#. So, once I add a hitch, I think I’ll struggle to stay under GVWR (10k).

7720# + 300# (hitch) + 22% of 9000 trailer weight = 10K

Thoughts?

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by bm1ll

I just loaded up the truck and took it to the CAT scales. Tare weight was 7720#. So, once I add a hitch, I think I’ll struggle to stay under GVWR (10k).

7720# + 300# (hitch) + 22% of 9000 trailer weight = 10K

Thoughts?

What is in the truck that could be carried in the basement of the 5er?

[bm1ll]

I’m not sure my wife will want to get in the basement. lol. I could probably move 50# or so into the basement but that’s about it. I assumed I would have most in the basement and has me/wife/dog +50-75# of gear.

I’m starting to think that a TT is a better fit unfortunately.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by bm1ll

I’m not sure my wife will want to get in the basement. lol. I could probably move 50# or so into the basement but that’s about it. I assumed I would have most in the basement and has me/wife/dog +50-75# of gear.

I’m starting to think that a TT is a better fit unfortunately.

Please go up to the UserCP and make a signature with year, make and model of camper and truck. Keep this simple. 23 percent of gross weight is accepted estimate of pin weight. 2300 lbs. With passengers and hitch another 750 lbs. You are at 3050 lbs payload on your truck. A couple of salads and you will be OK with the 3029 payload capability OR get an Andersen Ultimate hitch (35 lbs) and go for seconds at the buffet.

[bm1ll]

Thanks WiredGeorge. I’ll update my profile but I don’t yet have a 5er or TT. I’m just doing my homework before I purchase.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by bm1ll

Thanks WiredGeorge. I’ll update my profile but I don’t yet have a 5er or TT. I’m just doing my homework before I purchase.

If you are showing common sense, how did they let you in here? Your pickup is more suited for a bumper pull and you have likely discovered the fantasy of the "1/2 Ton Towable" marketing scam. Good luck!

[Stircrazy]

Originally Posted by bm1ll

24RDS

Unloaded Weight: 7,310lbs

GVWR: 10,000lbs

GAWR (each axle): 4400lbs



2500:

Max Payload: 3029lbs

5th wheel hitch: 300lbs

Passengers: 450lbs



Based on these numbers:

Pin weight: 1462 - 2000lbs (let's assume 2000lbs)



3029lbs (gross payload) - 2000lb (pin weight) - 450lb (passengers) - 300lbs (hitch) = 279lbs (breathing room)

do your self a favor and fill up the gas tanktake the wife and go to a scale and get your actual axel weights. this will tell you exctly what you have available, the sticker valuse doesnt take into account options and such and are notoriously off.

Steve

[Essvar]

Originally Posted by Stircrazy

do your self a favor and fill up the gas tanktake the wife and go to a scale and get your actual axel weights. this will tell you exctly what you have available, the sticker valuse doesnt take into account options and such and are notoriously off.

Steve

Yes, and make sure when you roll onto the scales with the wife in the truck do NOT say "oh boy looks like we need to lose some weight"

[bm1ll]

@Steve - that’s what I did. I gassed up, put the wife and another passenger (to simulate my dog) in the truck and got on the scale. 7700# - that just leaves me 2300#. Looks like I’ll be looking at the 25RDS instead of the 24RDS.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by bm1ll

@Steve - that’s what I did. I gassed up, put the wife and another passenger (to simulate my dog) in the dog and got on the scale. 7700# - that just leaves me 2300#. Looks like I’ll be looking at the 25RDS instead of the 24RDS.

Really would like you to get safely into a 5er, due to better towing characteristics.

You estimated 450# for passengers, yet you have lost 729# from your sticker payload. What have you added to the TV since new that took the other 279#?

If SHort bed truck, have you considered a Andersen Ultimate hitch at 65#? You could also consider a Reese Goose Box pin box, then just a ball hitch in the bed 5# hitch weight.

[Stircrazy]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Really would like you to get safely into a 5er, due to better towing characteristics.

You estimated 450# for passengers, yet you have lost 729# from your sticker payload. What have you added to the TV since new that took the other 279#?

.

he didnt add anything, the sticker payload is based of a baseline bare bones modle of the truck. they are worse than rv dealers for there dry weight. unless you get the two door, short box, small engine etc.. that number will never be right, thats why I go with rear axel weight and ratings.

Steve

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Stircrazy

he didnt add anything, the sticker payload is based of a baseline bare bones modle of the truck. they are worse than rv dealers for there dry weight. unless you get the two door, short box, small engine etc.. that number will never be right, thats why I go with rear axel weight and ratings.

Steve

His payload is off his door sticker.
There is a Site Team member with a very similar 5er that tow it with a F250 diesel, so less available payload. He does it within all numbers, just needs to watch what he takes with him.

[markcee]

Originally Posted by Stircrazy

he didnt add anything, the sticker payload is based of a baseline bare bones modle of the truck. they are worse than rv dealers for there dry weight. unless you get the two door, short box, small engine etc.. that number will never be right, thats why I go with rear axel weight and ratings.

Steve

That's totally false. Payload on the placard is specific to each truck. Payload is simply truck GVWR minus truck weight. If I understand you correctly, every 1/2 ton truck would have the same (max. payload) value listed, which it does not.

Ford claims a potential 3200 lbs or so payload with a 'properly equipped' F150, but you will be hard pressed to find that on any door sticker. If every member here with an F150 were to post a pic of their door sticker no two would be the same.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Stircrazy

he didnt add anything, the sticker payload is based of a baseline bare bones modle of the truck. they are worse than rv dealers for there dry weight. unless you get the two door, short box, small engine etc.. that number will never be right, thats why I go with rear axel weight and ratings.

Steve

Once again you are giving bad advice. The payload sticker is the difference between the vehicle GVWR and it’s weight as it rolled off the assembly line, with allowance for a 150# driver and full fuel.
Exceeding the vehicle GVWR puts one in legal limbo. While you may not get ticketed for being overweight, in a civil lawsuit you could be found at fault for being over a weight that the manufacturer states as being unsafe to exceed.

[Stircrazy]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Once again you are giving bad advice. The payload sticker is the difference between the vehicle GVWR and it’s weight as it rolled off the assembly line, with allowance for a 150# driver and full fuel.
Exceeding the vehicle GVWR puts one in legal limbo. While you may not get ticketed for being overweight, in a civil lawsuit you could be found at fault for being over a weight that the manufacturer states as being unsafe to exceed.

I said payload is an arbratrary number that has no basis in reality. we all know we can go into any registration place and pay extra to increase the GVWR of your truck to pretty much any number you want, with in reason, so how is that a hard number. out here when they pull you over they look at the tire raitings and axel ratings if anything at all.

My GVWR is 11500 on my truck, and says the payload is is 4000lbs actualy like 4120 ior something stupid like that. but yet my truck weights 8400lbs so to stay with in the gvwr that leaves me 3100 lbs of payload. but for some reason if I add 4000lbs then I am still within my rear axel raiting, so are they basing the payload off the gvwr or the rear axel.

so bad advice no, common sence yes, if you are under your rear axel but over your gvwr then re register your truck with the gvwr you need. the issue is the GVWR is for truck loads and assumes no extra braking forces so it is taking into account the brakes and such of the truck its self, once you add a trailer/5th wheel that is a moote point as you have a lot of extra braking force. as long as you don't overload any axel or tire I still say your fine, and that has been backed by the inspectors out here. they said you "should" reregister to a higher gvwr if you are over but they don't worry about recreational trailers. now if you had a trailer hauling company up here you better have the right registration. we also need a aditional drivers licence endorsemtent in BC to pull over 10400lbs and stuff like this is in the training. now every provence in cnada has different regulations, for instance alberta doesnt need a heavy tow endorsemnt to my knolawage and they cn tow tandom as long as the first unit is a 5th wheel, and I know from the other forums I read the US is simular so check with your local state and see what there rules are . most of the US people I see in other forums just re register to a higher GVWR, so if you can pay 50 buck and get another 4000lbs how is they a valid number?

[Stircrazy]

Originally Posted by bm1ll

@Steve - that’s what I did. I gassed up, put the wife and another passenger (to simulate my dog) in the dog and got on the scale. 7700# - that just leaves me 2300#. Looks like I’ll be looking at the 25RDS instead of the 24RDS.

ok so dont worry about the total weight or the "payload" rating, they are nothing. what matters is the individul axel weights and raitings. what did you rear axel actualy weight and what does the door say is the max for REAR GVW. that will give you your true payload you have left over.