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Old 02-14-2021, 04:38 PM   #1
GoingPlaces
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EMS - portable vs hardwired

Does any one have any experience or advice of installing a hardwired EMS ?
I will have a 2021 Cougar 25 rdswe in two weeks. I'm fairly handy, especially around electricity. I've only fried one set (ok really two but who's counting) of lineman's pliers in the past ten years.

I believe I'll need an EMS but trying to determine how hard one would be to install vs using a portable type. What are the trade offs (if any) of either type?

In either case, I plan on using a Progressive device. Unless someone out there may have an alternative (better) solution.
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Old 02-14-2021, 04:50 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingPlaces View Post
Does any one have any experience or advice of installing a hardwired EMS ?
I will have a 2021 Cougar 25 rdswe in two weeks. I'm fairly handy, especially around electricity. I've only fried one set (ok really two but who's counting) of lineman's pliers in the past ten years.

I believe I'll need an EMS but trying to determine how hard one would be to install vs using a portable type. What are the trade offs (if any) of either type?

In either case, I plan on using a Progressive device. Unless someone out there may have an alternative (better) solution.
I was gonna do a hardwired but went with portable because I read that progressive will void warranty if used with a generator
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Old 02-14-2021, 04:52 PM   #3
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This was a quick google search
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Old 02-14-2021, 04:55 PM   #4
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I have a 30A hard wired with remote display. Start to finish took me 30 minutes. There are advantages to both, but since I work on RVs, I can easily remove it if I get a new trailer.
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Old 02-14-2021, 05:04 PM   #5
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Where is the EMS spliced in ?? I assume near the shore power cord connection?

What do I need to do in order to use a generator. I've read the EMS does not like the grounding situation of most generators.

Is it as simple as turning on the by-pass switch?
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Old 02-14-2021, 05:43 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasin1 View Post
I was gonna do a hardwired but went with portable because I read that progressive will void warranty if used with a generator
PI does not warranty their EMS when used with a YAMAHA EF2000iS generator. As far as I know, all other inverter generators are not included in that stipulation.
But, in the "grand scheme of things" most people put their EMS in bypass when using a generator, so there's no "danger, even from that model generator".

Yamaha Generator

Please be advised the Yamaha Generator Model EF2000iS does not generate enough start-up current which causes the unit to overload. The generator then puts out non-true Sine Wave power. Progressive Industries units are designed to operate only on True Sine Wave power.

For this reason, The Progressive Industries Warranty is hereby void if an EMS Unit is used in conjunction with a Yamaha Generator Model EF2000iS. Any damage sustained to the EMS unit are the sole responsibility of the customer.


It is excluded because when overloaded, that model generator output is not a "true Sine Wave"... That's the reason why PI won't warranty their EMS when used with that generator....

https://www.progressiveindustries.net/disclaimer

That said, I'd have to wonder how, unless you tell them, they could ever link a failed EMS with a generator brand ??? I'm not suggesting falsifying a claim, but how are they going to "zero in on Yamaha" as the cause of a EMS failure ???
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Old 02-14-2021, 05:53 PM   #7
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Used a portable PI 50 for 13 years on 3 different 5th wheels with 10 of those years plugged in somewhere every day fulltiming. I bought portable knowing I'd be trading RVs at least once, never locked it up & it never sprouted legs. PI replaced it once, don't know if it was a faulty pedestal or faulty EMS, either way they replaced it no questions asked.
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Old 02-14-2021, 06:35 PM   #8
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I've used hardwired in my last two RVs. My Cougar has the power come in under the bathroom sink so that is where I put the Progressive EMS.

To use a generator you simply make or buy a ground/neutral bonding plug. Read this;
https://www.rvtravel.com/rv-electric...onding-basics/
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Old 02-14-2021, 09:55 PM   #9
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Thanks, great info..

I get the TT in a few weeks, I'll have to do some investigating then to determine where or even if I go with the hardwired unit. It just seemed to be a little cheaper and less prone to getting lost.
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Old 02-14-2021, 11:39 PM   #10
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I installed a hardwired Progressive 50 amp EMS in my current RV. The only problem I had was a color coding issue where the coding in the device didn’t match the instructions. Progressive’s tech support was aware of the issue and gave me the correct configuration.

The main advantage of using the hardwired version is that it will protect against faults in your shore power cord. I recently had that happen when the plug on my shore power cord failed.

The disadvantage is it more difficult to move to another RV if you trade. I made it somewhat easier to do that by not cutting the original power wires. I disconnected the shore power wiring at it’s terminals, connected those wires to the EMS input then added a short cable between the EMS and the terminals. That way I can remove the EMS and reconnect the power cable as it was originally installed without splicing those wires.
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Old 02-15-2021, 05:19 AM   #11
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I had the 30a hardwired and installed myself, placement was tricky but doable. I had that trailer for almost 2 yrs. Traded it in for a 5er and installed a 50a. Placement was easier but thicker wire made for some routing fun. Both units had the wired remote display with a bypass switch.
Couldn't you just bypass the EMS when hooked up to the generator?
I'm also asking because I don't have a generator for trailer use.
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Old 02-15-2021, 11:28 AM   #12
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I use a hard-wired Progressive EMS. I considered placing it where the shore power cable comes into the trailer, but in the end, it was much easier to place it behind the power panel (where the incoming wires from the shore power cable connect to the power distribution panel).

I liked the hard-wired, as it can't be stolen and protects against faults in the shore power cable as well as beyond that.

When using the generator, I use a neutral bonding plug and leave the EMS in "normal" mode, because I want to be protected against a potential fault in the generator.

I mounted the EMS display unit on the wall with the rest of my information/configuration panels using a custom-designed bezel, so it is mounted recessed in the wall. Looks real nice.
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Old 02-15-2021, 11:54 AM   #13
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I've never had a hard wired surge protector / EMS, only portable ones. But, I had this same debate many years ago and decided on portable, even after mine came up missing. (Yes, it happened to me). But I've wised up since then.

We had Keystone Outback then, and after the surge protector "walked away", I decided to get another portable. But this time, I installed it INSIDE the trailer. Behind a panel is where the electric cable fed back into through the outside mouse-hole. And there was the metal junction box that the black electric cord hooked into. This made it very easy.

I simply cut the trailer umbilical cord and installed a plug. On the other end of original cord, I installed the other plug. Then, all I had to do was plug in the protector, inside the camper, and had just enough room for the plug of the protector to stick out the mouse hole.

And this paid off. Because, when we traded it for our current fifth wheel, I simply unplugged the protector and plugged back in the original cord. I told the dealership about the spliced cord with 2 plugs, and if they wanted, they could wire the original wire back up into the silver junction box, or let the new owners know it's already set up to simply slap another protector in there.

You could do the same thing with a hard wired one too, or use a portable. That way, if you want to switch to a generator, or if you sell the camper, it's easy to get the protector / EMS out of there.

It's just a though.

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Old 02-21-2021, 08:41 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckster57 View Post
I have a 30A hard wired with remote display. Start to finish took me 30 minutes. There are advantages to both, but since I work on RVs, I can easily remove it if I get a new trailer.
X2
I hardwire one on every RV I've owned. When I sell I remove and put on the next one. I use progresives with remote readout. Use with generator there is a button to remove the generator when using it.
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Old 02-21-2021, 09:30 AM   #15
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I hardwired min in, took about 30 minutes including the remote display.



I just cut the shore power cord, where it went into the breaker box and splice the EMS in there.



I fished the wire for the remote display down the pantry wall, since there were already lots of wires running through it and added an extra 110 outlet with USB ports on it while I was there.



Easy, peasy.

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Old 02-21-2021, 09:45 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckster57 View Post
I have a 30A hard wired with remote display. Start to finish took me 30 minutes. There are advantages to both, but since I work on RVs, I can easily remove it if I get a new trailer.

Kind of handy to know how long a pro RV tech will take doing a job!


Here in the boonies in Texas, a half hour job generally takes 7-8 hours depending on how warm it is outside (or cold). It also depends on how much crawling on his belly or back this ol' fat boy has to do.



Seriously, I use a 30A Progressive EMS that hangs on the shore power 30A outlet. I own this unit because it has now been in four campers. When I get a 50A camper (if I hit the lottery), I will probably use the internal mount because it keeps an eye on issues related to the power cord. I also like the idea of an internal monitor but when the lights go out, stepping outside isn't a big chore and keep in mind the EMS will not come back on once power is restored until it is sure it is stable and is time delayed for a bit for that reason. Here is install of a 50A internal. I don't think it is much of a challenge except having to crawl around on the floor like a snake which may not be big deal for the younger or more fit crowd:


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Old 02-21-2021, 10:09 AM   #17
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I have the progressive industries 50 amp portable. One thing I would add is if you have a portable is to keep power off at the pedestal while you are plugging it in. Make sure it is firmly seated and if it’s too loose in the receptacle I would try and secure it so it doesn’t hang loose. And when you unplug it do the same and securely pull it straight out. You don’t want to burn up the plug ends from not being in all the way or arcing when you plug in. After it’s plugged in and power is on you can see if it’s good to go before plugging in rv cord. But I would again shut off power while you plug in rv cord and make sure that isn’t loose.pull out same way as above. Many I’m sure know this already..but I’ve seen people just yank cords out with little thought of damage..I have a spare 50 amp receptacle in case the rv park is damaged and they don’t have one to replace...probably never use it but wanted to be prepared
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Old 02-21-2021, 10:28 AM   #18
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I did a 30A hardwire in my Premier. I didn't take pics, but the mouse hole setup was similar to Post #13. I replaced the splice box with the EMS unit. Orange 10 gauge wire to EMS input, umbilical to output. Took less than an hour to install with the remote display. Some of that time was for cool beverage breaks...

Left it in when I sold it because my next camper will be 50A.
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Old 02-21-2021, 11:05 AM   #19
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There is, IMHO, only one "disadvantage" for each type of 50 amp EMS.

The portable unit can easily tend to burn contacts in "worn out RV park pedestals"... Neither Surge Guard or Progressive will cover replacement for burned contacts with their Lifetime Warranty". Good point: You don't have to bend wires.

The "hard wired unit" is "hell to install". Not because of the actual installation, but because "bending 6 gauge wire inside the unit takes fingers much stronger than any human could possibly have". Good Point: You don't have to deal with burned contact pins...

Otherwise,
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Old 02-21-2021, 01:30 PM   #20
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Have used both

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasin1 View Post
I was gonna do a hardwired but went with portable because I read that progressive will void warranty if used with a generator
I have used both and now only have the hardwire. Reason .. many
Portable
1 i have had two private campground forbid the use of them . Most likely due to poor electric circuit with in the campground since i tested low voltage on one site and no ground on the other
2. Theft . My first portable was stolen while out on a day trip.
3. Inconvenience . You need to plug it in as an add on all the time.
4. If you need to bypass the EMS you have to disconnect it by unplugging as the post.

The portable ones do work as well as the hardwire no difference really except I do believe i paid less for the portable.

Hardwire
1. Super easy to use . Mine is placed between the wire and the internal panel. Took 20 min to connect.
2. No way for anyone to tell if you have one or not.
3. They do have a by pass in case you can not correct electrical problems. But do not use anything that is sensitive to current.
4 . I could not get mine to work properly when i connected to a gen. I called progressive and they told me it was due to no ground on the generator . They actually told me two solutions . The first was to ground the generator to a proper ground but said that most time it was not worth the trouble as most people do not stay in one place long enough to make the effort. The other solution was to purchase a grounding plug that you use on the 15 amp plug on the generator to ground the generator ( or at least make the 30/amp outlet believe it is grounded .
Works like a charm (search amazon for it)
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