Electrical Problems - Page 2

Steveo57 · 02-04-2021, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAMA4K

I have attempted with all breakers off and it still trips.

If you have turned off all of the breakers in the trailer including the main breakers and you've also tried different cords then that would point to a problem with the receptacle on the trailer or the wiring from the receptacle to the breaker panel. Did you try just plugging in the dog bone by itself?

**JRTJH** · 02-04-2021, 08:53 PM

Agree. If all the power center breakers INCLUDING THE MAIN BREAKER are turned off and the problem still exists, it's either the shore power cord, the twist lock connector on the trailer or the outlet you're plugging into.

I'd first use a "plain extension cord" and plug into the outlet just to see if it will trip the GFCI.

BAMA4K · 02-05-2021, 11:16 AM

So problem solved. I had to disconnect all the wiring off the water heater element. As soon as I did I was able to connect up with breakers on and GFI did not trip. Thanks to everyone for all the help and feed back.

**sourdough** · 02-05-2021, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAMA4K

So problem solved. I had to disconnect all the wiring off the water heater element. As soon as I did I was able to connect up with breakers on and GFI did not trip. Thanks to everyone for all the help and feed back.

Thanks for posting your progress but I think I'm confused. In your first post you said all the breakers were off and the wiring was disconnected from the water heater?? The solution was to disconnect the wiring from the heating element? That heating element should be controlled by a breaker eliminating the need to unwire it. What kind of configuration do you have that requires unwiring the heating element in a water heater in addition to throwing all breakers?

cavie · 02-05-2021, 12:31 PM

It is a well-known fact that some GFI outlets don't play nice if plugged in series with another GFI outlet. Trip all the GFI outlet's within your RV. Or turn off the circuit breakers labeled GFI in the breaker box. Then plug in a see what happens. Let us know.

BAMA4K · 02-05-2021, 01:17 PM

All breakers were off. Apparently the heating element grounds out the plug. Not sure if this is all trailers but it is the case with my Avalanche. I have new element ordered and will change out tomorrow and let y’all know it issue in 100% fixed.

LHaven · 02-05-2021, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAMA4K

All breakers were off. Apparently the heating element grounds out the plug. Not sure if this is all trailers but it is the case with my Avalanche. I have new element ordered and will change out tomorrow and let y’all know it issue in 100% fixed.

If your heating element leaks shore power with all breakers off, you have a serious and potentially dangerous wiring problem. Hie thee to an electrician. Your problem is not in the element, it's in whatever is routing power to the element despite the breaker being off.

ChuckS · 02-05-2021, 02:17 PM

Looking at what Trekwood shows for water heater yours is Suburban with INSIDE switch (12 volt relay) that is inside the junction box for the 120 VAC power to the heating element.

If you haven’t looked inside that junction box Id suggest taking the time to at least take a peak... a shorted (unusual) heating element shouldn’t have caused that issue... very rare for element to short out..usual fail is it Opens Up...

If you don’t have an inside switch for electric mode on your water heater than I’m still quite puzzled at your fail issue

https://www.trekwood.com/products/12...ay-Single-Pack

**sourdough** · 02-05-2021, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAMA4K

All breakers were off. Apparently the heating element grounds out the plug. Not sure if this is all trailers but it is the case with my Avalanche. I have new element ordered and will change out tomorrow and let y’all know it issue in 100% fixed.

As others have said, something is definitely wrong. I have the 12 gal. Suburban water heater as I assume you do. That element should never be hot with the breaker thrown...and then you have the switch on the heater that is another "failsafe". With the element disconnected take a meter and read both sides on the ohm scale. Should be in the 10 ohm range as I recall, I figure yours is good. If not it's open and bad which I doubt. Then on the ohm scale read between one post of the element and ground; it should read nothing, which I figure it will. If those things read like that there is something seriously wrong, if not you will have to investigate further.

This is from memory but that switch on the side of the heater only controls the power to the element; the breaker controls the power to that switch via the relay ChuckS mentioned. My 120vac fried going to the water heater. Fried the switch (check it, mine was welded together) but still had no power - I am sure it is the relay Chuck mentioned but I'm letting warranty cover it when I get back. I turned off the breaker and there is no power at all to the water heater or element and I just run on LP.

Look into that closely because that element should not be throwing a breaker, gfci or not, with the trailer breaker off that feeds the water heater.

Customer1 · 02-05-2021, 04:59 PM

If neutral and ground are bonded, it can trip a GFCI even if the individual circuit isn't energized.

LHaven · 02-05-2021, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Customer1

If neutral and ground are bonded, it can trip a GFCI even if the individual circuit isn't energized.

That's true... if power is present to return over those conductors. If no power is being drawn anywhere in the rig (which is what you should see when all the interior breakers are off), the GFCI shouldn't even be able to detect that short. I agree that if any breaker, anywhere in the rig, is energized, and a neutral-ground are bonded anywhere else in the rig, you'll see it pop. But that could be anywhere in the rig, just checking the water heater won't necessarily find it.

Frank G · 02-06-2021, 04:06 PM

The electrical panel in a RV is considered a sub-panel, there is no neutral to ground bonding in this panel. The bonding is done at the shore power panel.

If the power is off to a compromised water heater element there is the possibility that a bonding has occurred between the neutral side and the case ground thus creating a unbalance to the shore power GFIC.

cavie · 02-06-2021, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank G

The electrical panel in a RV is considered a sub-panel, there is no neutral to ground bonding in this panel. The bonding is done at the shore power panel.

If the power is off to a compromised water heater element there is the possibility that a bonding has occurred between the neutral side and the case ground thus creating a unbalance to the shore power GFIC.

the shore power Ped is also a sub panel. The bonding is done at the park service entrance panel.

cavie · 02-11-2021, 08:20 AM

It is a well-known fact that some GFI outlets do not play nice with 2 GFI's in series. Go into your RV and turn off the one or two GFI circuits that are there. Come back and tell us the results.

Steveo57 · 02-11-2021, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavie

It is a well-known fact that some GFI outlets do not play nice with 2 GFI's in series. Go into your RV and turn off the one or two GFI circuits that are there. Come back and tell us the results.

It's a well known fact that that well known fact is in fact not a fact.

cavie · 02-11-2021, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steveo57

It's a well known fact that that well known fact is in fact not a fact.

I am a master electrician. I own two trailers. 9 years different is age. I proved it to myself with them sitting side by side.

Yvon Royer · 02-11-2021, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAMA4K

I have a 2020 Keystone Avalanche. When I plugged into GFI it trips. I have turned off all breakers, disconnected batteries and unhooked wiring to water heater and it still trips breaker. Electrician came out and checked circuit and said all is good. Any suggestions or additional things I can check before hauling it to a dealer? Oh and I tried different cords from trailer to Plug.

Your first step should be to locate your fuse panel and to turn all AC breakers off then check if the GFCI still trips. If it does not, you can switch them on one at a time until you find the culprit circuit. A common one is the water heater especially if you forgot to fill it with water before turning the electrical heater on; that one is guaranteed to trip a GFCI because the heater element has cracked and live parts are exposed to the water.

If you still trip the GFCI with all circuit breakers off, you can start looking upstream of your AC panel towards the plug.

bigrockk · 02-11-2021, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAMA4K

So problem solved. I had to disconnect all the wiring off the water heater element. As soon as I did I was able to connect up with breakers on and GFI did not trip. Thanks to everyone for all the help and feed back.

Despite all the feedback to the contrary you nailed it and found your problem. You will have to replace your water heater element and make sure it is turned off until the tank is full to avoid a repeat of this problem.

The GFCI tripping even though you had the breaker off is quite normal if the water heater electric element has shorted to ground. Shutting the breaker off only isolates the "hot" wire from the element but not the "neutral" wire.

Grounds and neutrals must be isolated from each other, if not it will cause the GFCI to trip and this is normal. The GFCI was just doing it's job, glad you got it figured out!

rburckhart · 02-11-2021, 04:34 PM

I had this same problem with an older 5th wheel we had; as soon as I plugged it in, the GFCI tripped. Pulled my hair out until I found out the water heater electric element was shorted. Disconnected the wires and that solved the problem.

monitormix · 02-19-2021, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LHaven

Am I missing something? OP says he plugged his trailer into a GFCI receptacle, meaning a 15A or 20A receptacle, since nothing larger comes in GFCI. That requires an adapter.
I thought it was common knowledge that trailer adapters are just flat not compatible with GFCI outlets. I'm surprised this is news to the storage facility.

Most newer commercial spaces have GFP listed breakers on the main disconnect. They are typically between 25-100ma based on the electrical engineers call out. You can purchase GFCI listed breakers to 50A single phase. Usually for hot tubs. All residential GFCI are listed to trip at 6ma. It doesn't take much to fault out.

You may also like: