Towing Capacity

[sourdough]

And for Danny: Thought markcee's comments about de-rated heavy duty trucks were on the mark (pun intended) and scolding someone for taking part and not being a wise guy or know it all but trying to add to a discussion were not very well done. Danny, you have had more "when I was a lad" stories than most (except me of course) and no one has called you out for getting off topic. In fact, off topic or bad info on this forum is not unusual. It is a FORUM for the exchange of RV relatated bloviating so take it easy on markcee, for goodness sake.[/QUOTE]


George, I was making a point IMO; not scolding. Please look at the landscape of the OPs situation; 9 people; 7 kids; one small child lost last August due to tragic consequences. Looking for advice and recommendations on their towing situation...with a 15 person BUS - with their large family.

The van appears to be problematic; DW says she does not want to consider 2 vehicles so we are trying to discuss weights, specs, required numbers posted on the doors of a prospective vehicle etc. DW apparently agrees to a 2nd vehicle and there are questions about a potential new TV. Back to "look at the numbers", they will dictate what is what and the OP was trying to do that....and then;

The remarks from Mark. Are they for consideration for some situations? Yes. Were they helpful for this OP trying to find a way to get a safe resolution for his family, after he had said the numbers were confusing (do we want to confuse it more?), and had moved in a safe direction - no. As I have always said, and Mark agreed in his last statement, the door placard IS what you look at....not trying to misle new folks with paid registration numbers vs what the sticker says etc; the sticker says what it says....as we all agreed. A family of 9; 7 kids; working the angles on weights muddies the water to me for the OP.

Mark has made many helpful posts and is a great member. The tangent to the "deregulated" weights/stickers, in this conversation, weren't helpful IMO. You have to keep the current situation in mind vs just "stuff" that won't help.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

That is why my F350 is a 4X4 as well even though I have never had the urge to lock the hubs and use it. I don't drive off road and see no white stuff so it is pretty pointless but in the Texas Hill Country, I believe there must be a law that says all heavy duty trucks have to be 4X4.

Well, it's "hill" country, right?

We have a couple of heavily-used gravel driveways on our ranch that have a few stretches at significant grade. In a car, you don't even notice them, but when you're towing a TT, you can start to slip and dig gravel. It's come in handy there, not much elsewhere.

[NRaynor]

Recommendation: Take your van with trailer attached, fully loaded for a camping trip (all gear, provisions, full fuel tanks, weight of 1/2 capacity fresh, gray and black tanks & all passengers) and take over scales and see how close it is to your maximum tow rating; leave a 10% safety margin and you should be OK. Be sure to use a load distributing / anti sway hitch with torsion bars (Reese cam anti-sway) with a weight rating higher than your measured max weight.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by NRaynor

Recommendation: Take your van with trailer attached, fully loaded for a camping trip (all gear, provisions, full fuel tanks, weight of 1/2 capacity fresh, gray and black tanks & all passengers) and take over scales and see how close it is to your maximum tow rating; leave a 10% safety margin and you should be OK. Be sure to use a load distributing / anti sway hitch with torsion bars (Reese cam anti-sway) with a weight rating higher than your measured max weight.

Those gray, black and fresh water tanks 1/2 full can add up to a LOT of weight. I have never driven to a campground or back home with ANYTHING in those tanks; kind of depends on whether the OP will be camping off the grid or at a campground with no sewer cut outs or dump stations, etc. 1/2 full can mean hundreds of pounds that the camper might never see.

[sourdough]

Until a few years back I would have agreed with you George; I refused to travel with anything more than 1/3 tank fresh....period. But as time went on, I got older and I decided I didn't like standing in the rain to dump, slip/sliding in the mud etc., I will now let my holding tanks run 2-3 days when traveling cross country and I have bad weather...it saves a LOT of time on departure morning. We only stay at commercial campgrounds I would add.

With 9 people, 7 kids, I can't really imagine what breakdown to get ready to leave would be like but I can certainly see that not having to deploy sewer hoses, hookups, hose supports etc. might save some needed time. But then again, how long can you go without dumping with that many people and one toilet/shower???? I'm thinking weighing with tanks at least 1/2 full would be a safer alternative than assuming that there will never be anything in the tanks....with that many people.... As I said, 5-6 years ago I would have agreed but have found it can expedite preparations on certain occasions to forego the dumping if you can.

[JRTJH]

In the spring we do a lot of "early season bass fishing". Much of that is done at State Forest Campgrounds which are remote, dry sites only. Most of these campgrounds do not have a dump station, the only water is a "hand pump well with a boil advisory for water pumped"... So, if you want to camp there, you will be towing out of the campground, often on a 15-20 mile gravel road to the nearest dump station. Very often that dump station is a "pay as you go" facility at a gas station or a truck stop, so many people who dry camp in Michigan SF campgrounds simply tow with full holding tanks to the next campground and dump there or tow it home with full tanks to dump when we get home.....

Years ago, people may have "dumped tanks in the campground" but many campgrounds no longer have dump stations, so you can't dump before leaving... Add the fact that every Michigan rest area (that I'm aware of) has closed their dump stations, so as holding tanks become bigger, the places to dump them become fewer and people are towing with more/heavier holding tanks.....

[BigBobIa]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Add the fact that every Michigan rest area (that I'm aware of) has closed their dump stations, ..

Any idea why they closed them? If it is there does not seem to be much cost sine need the facility for the rest rooms.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by BigBobIa

Any idea why they closed them? If it is there does not seem to be much cost sine need the facility for the rest rooms.

No "substantiated idea why they're closed" but if you spent any time stopping at rest areas to use the facilities, there's a whole population of A-holes who don't care if they make a mess and feel it's someone else's responsibility to clean up after them. So, the cost to maintain them may well be the reason. Couple that with the "reduced energy construction" with solar lighting, waterless flush urinals, 0.8L flush toilets and no hot water, it may be as simple as not having enough waterflow from the facilities at the rest areas to maintain a septic system flowing....

I really don't know, but they're all "locked, cemented shut or blocked" at every rest area I've stopped at in the state.

With the "parks pass license plate endorsement" I've had no problems pulling into any state park with a dump station to use it "free of charge". So, it looks like the "powers to be" just closed the rest area dump stations and allowed use of the state park dump stations for those who buy the "P" sticker on their license plates....

[DonZ]

I own a 2018 Ford 150 standard bed 3.5 Ecoboost with the 10 speed auto w/tow mo. I'm running with tow package on 10 ply tires on 18 inch stock rims, I trying to figure out what my tow weight is as I would like to get a travel trailer. Truck dealer is saying it's 10700 lbs., yet when they sold me truck others said is was 12500 lbs. Help Please!

[markcee]

Originally Posted by DonZ

I own a 2018 Ford 150 standard bed 3.5 Ecoboost with the 10 speed auto w/tow mo. I'm running with tow package on 10 ply tires on 18 inch stock rims, I trying to figure out what my tow weight is as I would like to get a travel trailer. Truck dealer is saying it's 10700 lbs., yet when they sold me truck others said is was 12500 lbs. Help Please!

With a 1/2 ton truck, the first thing that will limit you will be your available payload. Manufacturer tow ratings (12,500, 10,700 etc.) are pretty meaningless when towing a big sail, like a travel trailer, behind you. These claims are when towing a flat trailer loaded with a bunch of cinder blocks.

You will need to make some calculations, based on your truck, loaded with your gear in order to get a ballpark idea of what you will be able to tow and carry with your vehicle.

First, look at the yellow/white tire & loading sticker posted on the driver's side door pillar. On this sticker you will look for the 'Weight of cargo and all occupants should not exceed xxxx pounds. This is the payload that your truck has available.

Available payload is eroded by the following:

• You

• All passengers

• WDH - Weight Distributing Hitch (figure 100 lbs.)

• All gear loaded into the truck cab or bed

• Trailer tongue weight (rule of thumb: 13% of trailer's GVWR)

• Any add-ons to the truck after it left the factory

So let's say your door sticker says your cargo carrying capacity (payload) is 1700 lbs. Here is an example of how it quickly disappears:

You, the wife, 2 kids and a dog: 500 lbs
WDH: 100 lbs
Tools, firewood, misc. camping stuff: 200 lbs
Tongue weight for a 7000 lb GVWR trailer: 910 lbs
Tonneau cover: 90 lbs

The above adds up to 1800 lbs. Since your available payload was only 1700 pounds, your truck is now overloaded by 100 lbs

As you can see, in this example you did not come close to achieving the advertised 'tow rating' of 12,500 or even 10,700....you are overloaded with a 7000 lb trailer!

Hopefully this gives you an idea of how to calculate what your specific truck can handle, regarding weight. At least enough to give you an idea of the trailer's you should be looking at.

Finally, resist the urge to calculate using a trailer's unloaded weight. Always use its listed GVWR (max that it can weigh when loaded up).

[wiredgeorge]

In case you want to find your payload, it is in the driver's door frame in a yellow/white placard. Markcee did a great did a great job explaining but left out 5th wheel payload considerations which put the weight of the trailer on your hitch at about 23 percent of the gross weight of the trailer. I would also point out that you should never take a salesman at a dealership as an authority on towing. They just don't know or looked at sales brochure. Keep in mind all manufacturers have an ongoing BEST TOWING IN CLASS competition which isn't based on anything in the real world and the RV sales folks seldom are any better.

[markcee]

Originally Posted by DonZ

I own a 2018 Ford 150 standard bed 3.5 Ecoboost with the 10 speed auto w/tow mo. I'm running with tow package on 10 ply tires on 18 inch stock rims, I trying to figure out what my tow weight is as I would like to get a travel trailer. Truck dealer is saying it's 10700 lbs., yet when they sold me truck others said is was 12500 lbs. Help Please!

Yes to what George said.....13% is rule of thumb for a travel trailer tongue weight and 23% for a 5th wheel's pin weight.

To go along with my original post, you can sort of reverse engineer the math to determine the max loaded trailer for your truck by using the following formula:

Payload minus Occupants minus Gear/Cargo minus Hitch, divided by .13.

So using the same example figures from my original reply:

1700 – 500 – 200 = 1000 – 100 (hitch) = 900. 900 / .13 = 6,923 lb. max loaded trailer

[DonZ]

Ok, I've done some research and this is where I'm at.

Here is what I have as info:

TT GVWR is 9740 Cruiser TT
subtract 800 fluids When we travel we travel dry for fluids
= 8860

this includes potential of 2500 of ppl & stuff when we go South. (I don't think we have that much maybe 1500) When we traveled in 2020 we took what we we needed on the low side figuring we would buy what we needed. As it turned out there was stuff we didn't need which won't be in TT again.

Allowable truck (2018 Ford 150 w/ 10 ply 275 tires) weight of occupants & stuff loaded on truck of 1900

Estimated ppl + stuff (dogs, tools, tonneau cover, bed liner, WDH, saddle bed storage, 3 wheel trike, cooler, & fuel 26 gallon) seems to be
around 1250 estimated

9740 - 800 fluids = 8860 - 1000 weight not being used = 7860 + 1250 truck contents =
--------
9110 tow

Even with the 1000 added back in we're still under the 10700

Ford says truck is good for 10700 tow capacity, I called them twice to be sure!

Interesting info was the TT is only 200 lbs. more the TT we used in 2020.

Am I on the right track as having the right idea about all of this? The whole intent is have be safe and to have the same great trip we had last time. It was a dream driving last time!

Thanks for the Help!!

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by DonZ

Ok, I've done some research and this is where I'm at.

Here is what I have as info:

TT GVWR is 9740 Cruiser TT
subtract 800 fluids When we travel we travel dry for fluids
= 8860

this includes potential of 2500 of ppl & stuff when we go South. (I don't think we have that much maybe 1500) When we traveled in 2020 we took what we we needed on the low side figuring we would buy what we needed. As it turned out there was stuff we didn't need which won't be in TT again.

Allowable truck (2018 Ford 150 w/ 10 ply 275 tires) weight of occupants & stuff loaded on truck of 1900

Estimated ppl + stuff (dogs, tools, tonneau cover, bed liner, WDH, saddle bed storage, 3 wheel trike, cooler, & fuel 26 gallon) seems to be
around 1250 estimated

9740 - 800 fluids = 8860 - 1000 weight not being used = 7860 + 1250 truck contents =
--------
9110 tow

Even with the 1000 added back in we're still under the 10700

Ford says truck is good for 10700 tow capacity, I called them twice to be sure!

Interesting info was the TT is only 200 lbs. more the TT we used in 2020.

Am I on the right track as having the right idea about all of this? The whole intent is have be safe and to have the same great trip we had last time. It was a dream driving last time!

Thanks for the Help!!

Your leaving out a LOT of pertinent information;

Truck; what is payload, gvwr, gcvwr? "Tow capacity" is a useless number and doesn't help in any way.

Trailer; figuring towing weight with dry weights or empty tanks is in error. You WILL travel with something in the tanks at some time. Generally there is something in the fresh water tank for emergencies. What is the specific trailer? What exactly is the 3 wheel trike? How much does it weigh?

Back to truck; figuring a "towed weight" of 9000lbs. x 13% = 1170lbs. for tongue weight. Add the 1250 you have in the truck = 2420lbs. What is the payload for that 150? I suspect it's not near that.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Your leaving out a LOT of pertinent information;

Truck; what is payload, gvwr, gcvwr? "Tow capacity" is a useless number and doesn't help in any way.

Trailer; figuring towing weight with dry weights or empty tanks is in error. You WILL travel with something in the tanks at some time. Generally there is something in the fresh water tank for emergencies. What is the specific trailer? What exactly is the 3 wheel trike? How much does it weigh?

Back to truck; figuring a "towed weight" of 9000lbs. x 13% = 1170lbs. for tongue weight. Add the 1250 you have in the truck = 2420lbs. What is the payload for that 150? I suspect it's not near that.

Yes! What he said!
Once you've added liquids to any of your tanks they'll never be dry again. There will always be a few gallons that unless you tilt the rv in different directions will never drain.
The manufacturer may have called that TT a "1/2 ton towable" but most aren't.

[blubuckaroo]

When we shopped for a rig, it's good that we shopped for the truck first. We didn't like the ride of any of the 3/4 ton trucks. Our 1/2 ton Silverado rides like a dream.
But we realized our limitations. You really need to have a discussion about what our comfort level is. We ended up cutting off a little length from our shopping list, but ended up with a very comfortable and useful space.
To be honest, all this trailer is missing from the bigger one is walking space. In fact, this trailer opened up camping opportunities that a longer trailer would have kept us from enjoying.

[notanlines]

Let's keep in mind that the general consensus is to shop RV first, TV second. Otherwise the person finds that they have bought a truck that the dealer/sales person assured him was a 'beast' turns out to be a 'grocery getter.'
How many 3/4 ton owners have heard the term "Oh hell, yeah, it'll tow it, no problem."

[DonZ]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Your leaving out a LOT of pertinent information;

Truck; what is payload, gvwr, gcvwr? "Tow capacity" is a useless number and doesn't help in any way.

Trailer; figuring towing weight with dry weights or empty tanks is in error. You WILL travel with something in the tanks at some time. Generally there is something in the fresh water tank for emergencies. What is the specific trailer? What exactly is the 3 wheel trike? How much does it weigh?

Back to truck; figuring a "towed weight" of 9000lbs. x 13% = 1170lbs. for tongue weight. Add the 1250 you have in the truck = 2420lbs. What is the payload for that 150? I suspect it's not near that.

______________________

Trailer is a Cruiser Radiance, GVWR 9740
Hitch weight is 940
Fluids are only the Winterization
I ride a 3 wheel TerraTrike bike weighs about 42 lbs
Payload of 2018 Ford XLT truck is 2500 lbs, GVWR is 7000 lbs, combined weight of contents is 1900 lbs

[Ibdagriz]

Originally Posted by DonZ

______________________

Trailer is a Cruiser Radiance, GVWR 9740
Hitch weight is 940
Fluids are only the Winterization
I ride a 3 wheel TerraTrike bike weighs about 42 lbs
Payload of 2018 Ford XLT truck is 2500 lbs, GVWR is 7000 lbs, combined weight of contents is 1900 lbs

My 9000lb GVWR trailer, ready to camp, puts a bit over 1400lbs on my hitch, which I upgraded from the 1200lb rated one it came with. Yours could be really close and that comes off of the total payload you have.

Griz

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by DonZ

______________________

Trailer is a Cruiser Radiance, GVWR 9740
Hitch weight is 940
Fluids are only the Winterization
I ride a 3 wheel TerraTrike bike weighs about 42 lbs
Payload of 2018 Ford XLT truck is 2500 lbs, GVWR is 7000 lbs, combined weight of contents is 1900 lbs

Are those numbers you quoted from the tags on the door or some sort of brochure/publication? You realize that with a 7000lb. gvw and a 2500lb. payload your F150 can only weigh 4500lbs. right? Had a fellow just post his scale weights on another 1/2 ton and it was 6220 (memory) with him, full fuel and 50lbs. of misc.(he did have a bed cover etc.) In your case that would leave you with a payload of 780lbs. - not 2500. You might look at that sticker and post back. And, I don't recall owning a modern day 1/2 ton (several of them) that weighed 4500lbs.

Edit: The Radiance is the 30RDS right? Just for everyone's reference since we typically deal with Keystones, here is a link to that trailer - it's over 36' long.

https://www.cruiserrv.com/2018/trave...diance/r-30ds/