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Old 04-07-2021, 06:59 AM   #1
MN-Clark
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Testing RV Brakes.

I would like to test the electric brakes on my RV without connecting to the TV.


Background: 2018 Carbon 357 toy hauler and a 2015 Ram 3500 dually.
TV has started displaying "Check electronic brake system" message occasionally on 1st start of the day. Message goes away in about 15 seconds. No stored messages, no other problems and seems like everything is still working. I have a dealer appointment next week.
Trailer has new tires and I recently completed repacking wheels bearings. I saw no visual problems with the brakes at that time.


I hooked up to the TV yesterday and even though the error message did not show up on the trucks dash, the trailer brakes are not working.



So, how can I test the operation of the RV brakes without hooking up to the TV? I'm trying to eliminate hidden problems there.


Thanks.
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Old 04-07-2021, 07:36 AM   #2
JRTJH
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Depending on the type of brake control you're using, you may not be able to "test the brakes" when the truck is not in motion.

Many (probably most) OEM brake controls installed in newer trucks use the vehicle computer accelerometers to determine the level of braking power. Many do not apply power unless the transmission is in D or R and then, only if the speed is above a specific MPH. On Fords, below 5MPH, no braking power is applied.

There are troubleshooting guides and some procedures require the dealership diagnostic equipment to "do a static troubleshooting process"... Alternatively, pull the brakeaway pin to verify the trailer brakes are working. If they are, then move to the truck and verify all connections are tight, clean and not corroded. Then go to a "vehicle specific troubleshooting guide" to dig deeper into that specific system.

On Fords, that process has changed several times since the 2011 SuperDuty line began offering "factory installed brake controllers" .... The current technology "knows if the truck is moving" and controls braking function based on much more than pushing the brake pedal or squeezing the controller lever to measure an output on Pin #2.
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Old 04-07-2021, 08:14 AM   #3
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If you have a DC amp clamp, find the break away switch. Pull the pin and measure amp draw. 4 brakes should draw 12-16 amps. Make sure the trailer battery is hooked up and charged.
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Old 04-07-2021, 10:22 AM   #4
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Hummm, never thought about the factory brake controller not applying brakes below a certain speed. I did pull the trailer though not above 5mph. The TV brake pedal & the trailer brake lever did nothing.


Should I have the trailer plugged into the TV to do the breakaway switch test? Is it possible to connect a stand alone battery with ground (-) to #1 and positive (+) to #2 with someone listening to the trailer brakes? Just a thought.
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Old 04-07-2021, 10:48 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by MN-Clark View Post
Hummm, never thought about the factory brake controller not applying brakes below a certain speed. I did pull the trailer though not above 5mph. The TV brake pedal & the trailer brake lever did nothing.


Should I have the trailer plugged into the TV to do the breakaway switch test? Is it possible to connect a stand alone battery with ground (-) to #1 and positive (+) to #2 with someone listening to the trailer brakes? Just a thought.
#1 and 2 of what? The 7 way plug? NO you can’t. You can jumper the battery positive to the brake blade but it too requires a battery be installed. Here is a link to show you which blade is what on the trailer end.

https://www.etrailer.com/faq-wiring-7-way.aspx
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Old 04-07-2021, 12:30 PM   #6
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Thanks chuckster57.



Guess I'll hookup the TV to the trailer again. Then I can try pulling the emergency break away switch. Too bad I didn't think of that yesterday.


If I get one guess, I'll get no brakes. Ram forums etc., have lots of references to this and what I usually find I'd that one of the trucks computers has failed. Seems there are multiples failing here and there. Oh boy!
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Old 04-07-2021, 01:19 PM   #7
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Maybe I don't want to try the break away switch. It almost looks like a one use item. Even has a warning on it. "Removing plunger with power to the brakes could result in damage to the brakes."
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Old 04-07-2021, 01:50 PM   #8
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Pulling the break-away pin will not do any damage if you are just testing the system, and then put the pin back in so the power to the brakes is removed. Pulling the pin will provide maximum power to the brakes of the trailer. Also, pay close attention to how the pin comes out so you can easily replace it into the switch so you don't damage the contacts inside.
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Old 04-07-2021, 02:37 PM   #9
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Thanks chuckster57.



Guess I'll hookup the TV to the trailer again. Then I can try pulling the emergency break away switch. Too bad I didn't think of that yesterday.


If I get one guess, I'll get no brakes. Ram forums etc., have lots of references to this and what I usually find I'd that one of the trucks computers has failed. Seems there are multiples failing here and there. Oh boy!
First off the truck has NOTHING to do with the breakaway switch and it's function. All it is is a switch to power the trailer brakes directly from the trailer battery. If you expect to power it from the truck umbilical there's a few cautions. The battery power (charging line) on the truck typically won't be powered unless the truck is running. If the positive battery cable on the trailer hits the frame you will blow out the reverse polarity fuses in the trailer electrical distribution panel and likely a fuse in the truck.

My suggestion is to connect the trailer battery (isn't it about time to do that anyway?), pull the disconnect pin and listen for the brakes to hum. If your trying to diagnose the brake controller then outside of having the proper test equipment you need to hitch up and go for a "cautious" drive. Get up to about 15 mph and apply the brakes.
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Old 04-08-2021, 05:11 AM   #10
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Today's test plan is to ensure the RV battery is fully charged, pull the breakaway pin and listen for RV brake noise/activity. If I'm not sure I detect any activity with the RV brakes, I'll hook up the TV not connect the power cable and try a short pull. That should tell me if the RV brakes are "engaged". It will also give me some practice with the breakaway switch. I've read from several sources, that switch should be tested at least annually if not more often. That sounds like a good thing to do.


Hopefully the problem will be identified soon.
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Old 04-08-2021, 05:26 AM   #11
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Sounds like a good plan. When we do axle/bearing services the first thing I do iOS get the tires off the ground, pull the pin and try to spin the wheels. If one spins I’m looking at that one first.
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Old 04-08-2021, 06:54 AM   #12
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The best improvement for drum brakes on a rv as heavy as your Carbon is to upgrade them to disc.
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Old 04-08-2021, 08:25 AM   #13
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Test complete. Good results.


Battery 12.6 volts. Pulled the breakaway plug but I couldn't hear anything. That's not unusual for me. Put the plug back in.


Hooked the TV up. Battery reading 12.5 after complete hookup. Disconnected the power cord from the TV. Pulled the plug. Didn't hear anything again. Pulled forward with noticable resistance. Tried backing up. Same resistance. Put the breakaway plug back in. No resistance. Yeah.


So now I wait until the TV gets to the shop for diagnosis. Sure hope something is found and fixed quickly. Wishful thinking?


Thanks everyone. Appreciate the help. I learned a couple things, too.
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Old 04-08-2021, 10:18 AM   #14
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2nd test completed. Good results.
Yeah, I'm that guy that will do all the tests I can before I panic!


Jacked up one wheel at a time do it would spin free. Pulled the breakaway plug and on all 4 wheels, the brakes went full on with 10 degrees rotation. Yippee!


I won't soon forget this. Will become part of my wheel / bearing / tire maintenance procedure.
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Old 04-11-2021, 08:33 AM   #15
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Hey, did you scroll through the TV screens to the Trailer tow screen and assure the electric gain is at around 9 to 10. I have a tradesman 2015 RAM 2500 and had no braking on first hook up. Did not get out of the parking lot at the dealership with the 5er on when I figured out what the + and - signs were on my dashboard trailer brake. Took the gain up to 9.5 and activated from the dash to verify we had trailer brakes. Having done all that and still no brakes .... it is likely the TV has issues. For what its worth mine had 3 different rounds of no electric (at all) on the bumper .... finally had to replace the blasted thing and that solved that issue. For the 5er I use the bed hook up.
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Old 04-12-2021, 09:22 AM   #16
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@Peacemkr53 - I have been seeing an occasional message on the TV dash on startup: Check electronic brake system. That caused concern that perhaps the factory trailer brake controller was having problems.


So far, whenever the trailer is hooked up, the TV display appears normal, including the gain meter on the dash and any adjustments I make to the gain. I have the controller set to heavy electric. I typically use the in bed connection but have tested with both in bed and bumper connections.


Today I jacked up one trailer wheel so I could manually spin it. Then connected the TV. TV display shows Trailer Connected message. Then pushed the TV take peddle and tried to spin the trailer wheel. Functioning brakes!!! Yippie!


The TV is still going to the dealer this week. I want an explanation as to why the Check Brake message shows on the TV display but no codes or stored messages. Something is going on here and I don't know what. But at least, the trailer brakes are working.
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Old 04-12-2021, 11:41 AM   #17
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Hooked the TV up. Battery reading 12.5 after complete hookup. Disconnected the power cord from the TV. Pulled the plug. Didn't hear anything again.
This all used to be a lot more straightforward, but the manufacturers have complicated the frak out of it. It's hard for the average user why something "doesn't work" when it's "properly not working, as it was designed not to."

1) TVs that don't apply any braking below a certain speed.
2) TVs that don't feed the +12V line unless the truck is on
(that's actually a good one).
3) TVs that don't feed the +12V line unless the truck is on and in gear.

Last time I picked my rig up from dealer service (a "same-day repair" that ended up with me having to leave it for two weeks), the battery had dropped below what was needed to run the tongue jack (as usual). DW had to run the TV in gear with the brake on so I would have enough juice to complete the hookup. The guy at the propane fill station asked us to shut off so he could pump, and we had to explain why we needed to stay running. Nobody was happy that day.

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The TV is still going to the dealer this week. I want an explanation as to why the Check Brake message shows on the TV display but no codes or stored messages.
You're sure it doesn't say, "Checking brakes"? That would explain why it comes on only for a few seconds, then goes out.
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Old 04-12-2021, 01:23 PM   #18
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@LHaven - I'm with you on all your observations. But it is what it is & I've gotta go with it.


And, the message really does say " Check Electronic Brake System". That message and a ton of others are listed in the owners manual. Just don't ask me where because the manual is so complicated it's difficult to find most anything in it!
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Old 04-12-2021, 01:46 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by MN-Clark View Post
I would like to test the electric brakes on my RV without connecting to the TV.


Background: 2018 Carbon 357 toy hauler and a 2015 Ram 3500 dually.
TV has started displaying "Check electronic brake system" message occasionally on 1st start of the day. Message goes away in about 15 seconds. No stored messages, no other problems and seems like everything is still working. I have a dealer appointment next week.
Trailer has new tires and I recently completed repacking wheels bearings. I saw no visual problems with the brakes at that time.


I hooked up to the TV yesterday and even though the error message did not show up on the trucks dash, the trailer brakes are not working.



So, how can I test the operation of the RV brakes without hooking up to the TV? I'm trying to eliminate hidden problems there.


Thanks.
It could be an abs speed sensor on one of the wheels, I read that some people that use an edge tuner on their truck can have similar intermittent warning messages.( not sure if you have one)
And you also have a 2015 truck...if it’s the original battery’s in the truck then one or both could be failing causing low voltage to a sensor....and just to be clear,does the message only happen when you are NOT connected to the trailer?
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Old 04-12-2021, 02:47 PM   #20
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@That message and a ton of others are listed in the owners manual. Just don't ask me where because the manual is so complicated it's difficult to find most anything in it!
Sometime it's worthwhile to search the web, especially the manufacturer's website if it's a recent model, for an online copy of the owner manual, and download it. You can save yourself a lot of searching for a subject within a huge manual just by having your computer do it for you.
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