Roof question

creegs · 03-21-2021, 07:41 AM

We are potential first time travel trailer owners looking at a 2021 Keystone Cougar 22RBS. Is this roof ok? Are the wrinkles something to be concerned about? This is on the passenger side in the front of the trailer. All the seals look good and no nails or screws are coming up anywhere.

**chuckster57** · 03-21-2021, 07:47 AM

welcome to the forum

that roof is "OK" but I would be concerned with the rubber bubbling more when towing at 65 MPH. If there is another unit thats the exact same and DOESNT have that roof issue I would get it instead.

That issue can be repaired, its would just be a bit labor intensive and I wouldn't purchase until Keystone authorized and paid and the work was done, but that's just my opinion, YMMV.

creegs · 03-21-2021, 07:59 AM

Thanks for the information. The story is that the trailer was bought new and never used, then traded in on a diesel pusher. It was manufactured in October 2020 and only had a temporary license on it. The dealer is trying to call it new, but we are saying it is used and therefore should have a lower price. It absolutely looks new, but the roof gives me some concerns. Not sure how, or if the warranty transfer would work since it was sold, traded in to a dealer, and now resold. Probably should pass on this one.

**chuckster57** · 03-21-2021, 08:03 AM

I probably would pass on that unit AND that dealer.

creegs · 03-21-2021, 08:19 AM

I should clarify.....the dealer is acknowledging that it is used, but they are saying since it was never used, they can pricing it like a new trailer. We are saying that since it might not have a warranty, and since it has been sold once, we are not paying the price the are asking. Then there is the roof.....

**chuckster57** · 03-21-2021, 08:21 AM

RV pricing is a bit inflated at the moment, but I would tell the dealership to sell it to someone else "as new" and let them worry about the roof. Its only my opinion but I wouldn't hold that dealership in very high regard.

**JRTJH** · 03-21-2021, 10:12 AM

The dealer may call it "new" but I assure you that Keystone considers it used. As soon as the original warranty was registered, Keystone's "90 days for adjustments and 1 year for inclusive warranty" time clock started ticking. If it was sold on November 1, 2020, then 90 days after that, on January 30, 2021, any adjustments of slides, doors, drawers, shower components, etc has expired and will be "at owner expense"....

The MSRP on most towable RV's is set around 35% above wholesale (and that includes the initial delivery charges which you shouldn't have to consider). So, a "great deal on a used RV" regardless of how long it was used and whether or not it had "tags on the back" should reflect the depreciation incurred when the trailer was towed off the dealer's lot by the first owner.

Don't be swayed by a dealer's claim that it's "really a new trailer in used clothing".... A wolf is a wolf, no matter what Little Red Riding Hood thought.....

**flybouy** · 03-21-2021, 10:52 AM

In my state, and I think in most, once a vehichle is titled and registered it's used if it's moved or not. If it huad a temporary tag and not a dealer tag then I woud think the change of title woud have been applied for unless the sale was reversed before the title was submitted. Most gealers can issue a temkporary tag whie the paperwork from the DMV is being processed. Looking at the roof and reading what you have posted I woud take my money elsewhere.

CrazyCain · 03-21-2021, 12:51 PM

I would run from that, especially if bothers you right if it bothers, Trust your gut, I have been burned many times not trusting that nagging gut feeling...
YMMV

Vet4jdc · 03-21-2021, 01:41 PM

I would make them an offer on that unit if they agree to pull the trim strips and adhere the roof area with new glue. It would be a contingent offer. If they put it back together satisfactory and you are happy with it, then proceed with the purchase. The deal should include a decent discount if it was titled before because it IS a used unit. Make sure you get a solid 12 month warranty as part of the deal.

jasin1 · 03-21-2021, 01:56 PM

I’d ask them how much difference in msrp between a 2020 and 2021 identical units .... I’d then pay the difference and get the 2021 brand new ... if they say “ I can’t do that because this one is used” ...I’d say fine then mark it down like a used one

wiredgeorge · 03-21-2021, 02:11 PM

I would definitely pass on that dealer. Period.

**sourdough** · 03-21-2021, 03:09 PM

At what level are you talking at the dealership? If it's the salesman then I would just tell him to move you up the chain until you get a definitive dealership bottom dollar and determination.

Sold and then titled is used period anywhere/everywhere I've ever done business. 1000 miles, 5000 or 5...it's used and actually can't be sold as new. They can tell you all day long it's "like new" but it still takes that depreciation hit. Used to be, before the "epi-pandemic", you could work from 33-35% off msrp. The msrp on that trailer per the Keystone website is 34,350. I have no idea what they are asking but as a shot across the bow I would offer them 35% off msrp PLUS an additional 5% = 40% discount = 20,610. See where that goes. I bought this one just before covid became news and I got my 33% off plus little "gimmes". Realistically at this time those numbers could be all over the place given the current RV environment - but I WOULD NOT pay a new price.

As far as the roof it looks like the material was possibly not straight before it was rolled down or something. Looks cosmetic to me but I wouldn't want it unless they gave me a substantial discount plus a warranty that would mirror a new unit....at the above pricing.

creegs · 03-21-2021, 05:24 PM

We did make them an offer right in the ballpark that you suggested. The salesman said there was no way that they would take what we offered. One other factor is that they don't even carry Keystone products and knew nothing about the transferrable warranty. They simply took it in as a trade in on a class A and feel that they are going to get close to new pricing. As everyone has suggested, they will need to come down a lot on their price, fix the problem, and offer us some sort of warranty before we will even consider it.

jasin1 · 03-21-2021, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creegs

We did make them an offer right in the ballpark that you suggested. The salesman said there was no way that they would take what we offered. One other factor is that they don't even carry Keystone products and knew nothing about the transferrable warranty. They simply took it in as a trade in on a class A and feel that they are going to get close to new pricing. As everyone has suggested, they will need to come down a lot on their price, fix the problem, and offer us some sort of warranty before we will even consider it.

Oh then I definitely would walk on that one....who would you take it to for warranty work? .. I thought it was a keystone dealer ...sorta like buying certified pre owned Mercedes from a Mercedes dealer

**JRTJH** · 03-21-2021, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasin1

Oh then I definitely would walk on that one....who would you take it to for warranty work? .. I thought it was a keystone dealer ...sorta like buying certified pre owned Mercedes from a Mercedes dealer

As compared to buying a certified pre-owned Mercedes from a Fiat dealer.... It looks like the OP is working with a Fiat dealership rather than a Mercedes dealership.... I'd run as fast and as far as I could from this deal. The more I hear, the more it sounds like it's an orphan that Keystone dealers won't work on and that Keystone factory may (or may not) approve a warranty transfer.... They'll take the money and transfer the warranty, but first claim, they'll ask for proof that the previous owner did the "required maintenance and inspections" before approving further warranty work.... Without that documentation (which is IMPOSSIBLE TO OBTAIN) you'll be stuck between a dealer that won't go to bat for you, a dealer that isn't authorized to even work on the thing and a factory that's saying "NO WAY".....

If anything major goes wrong with the coach, I can see you being "stuck with a trailer, no warranty, no dealer support and no "authorized Keystone dealer would touch it".....

Sort of like depending on that Fiat dealer to spend "big bucks" to warranty that Mercedes without factory support.....

creegs · 03-21-2021, 05:56 PM

Thanks again for all the opinions/suggestions. I appreciate everyone's thoughts. Very glad that I climbed up onto the roof and had the photo to post here to get all the opinions.

**sourdough** · 03-21-2021, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creegs

We did make them an offer right in the ballpark that you suggested. The salesman said there was no way that they would take what we offered. One other factor is that they don't even carry Keystone products and knew nothing about the transferrable warranty. They simply took it in as a trade in on a class A and feel that they are going to get close to new pricing. As everyone has suggested, they will need to come down a lot on their price, fix the problem, and offer us some sort of warranty before we will even consider it.

With that information I would strongly suggest running away from these folks. They took in a unit they know needs TLC and are trying to "take you for a ride" and won't/can't support.

Dadmech · 03-21-2021, 06:38 PM

Turn around and run! Leave it be.!!/0┌(・。・)┘♪ಠ∀ಠಠ,_｣ಠ

Stay clear of dealers that don't sell and/or repair your under warranty ?! After that kind of money.
Make it NEW or SELL ME NEW, PERIOD!
Let them pawn it off on another person the dealership thinks is gullible enough to get stuck with it
Not a good feeling about that stealership.

Too many other manufacturers out there bending over backwards to help their own dealers stay aflote. And keep all their skilled Techs working at quality work.
Just my 2¢
Bobby Jones
Slippery Rock PA
Good camping 🏕️😁

Jca3 · 03-28-2021, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creegs

We are potential first time travel trailer owners looking at a 2021 Keystone Cougar 22RBS. Is this roof ok? Are the wrinkles something to be concerned about? This is on the passenger side in the front of the trailer. All the seals look good and no nails or screws are coming up anywhere.

We have a 2011 Laredo and have had major bubbling with the roof. Many tries at having the roof repaired. Even to have the front cap taken off before reattaching the front strap. Nothing worked so we finally had our repair guy put three straps on the front. I would not purchase an RV that starts out with roof creases. Any wind getting under the membrane will continue to lift further.

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