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Old 01-26-2021, 10:24 AM   #21
JRTJH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nellie1289 View Post
how does every thread that has a poor guy asking about what to expect with a fifth wheel, turn into the weight police every single time. I know you guys are just trying to help but OP already gets it.
I'm not going to embarrass anyone by naming names, but if you look back through the past several years of forum posts about tow vehicle/trailer capacity, you'll find more than a few members who say things like, "We travel light and will NEVER have more than 700 pounds in our trailer." or "We only camp within 30 miles of home and only tow on back roads." and "We only camp in full hookup sites and will never use the fresh water tank or have to deal with that extra weight."...

Then, within a few months, they're posting, "We added a second air conditioner, DW wants a washer dryer, and since the hookups are there, which brand is best?" or "We're planning a trip to Yellowstone, the kids have never been there, and only dry camping is available, which generator should we buy for the trip?" or "Since we have the trailer, we're starting to camp further from home and the campgrounds close to where we want to visit are only dry camping, how do we sanitize the fresh water system and there's no dump stations there, so how do we add a dump site onto our septic system at home?"...

What I'm saying is that "the best intentions" often are lost by people who realize the opportunities offered by their new trailer and when expanding those "new opportunities" they tend to forget all about the limitations they ignored "in the beginning" with all those "empty promises to themselves about things the rest of us already know are myths......

Talking about them, especially when the OP asks for any advice..... Well, if you don't want to participate, just skip over the thread..... But, DON'T berate those who actually do have his personal safety and that of his family in our concerns.
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Old 01-26-2021, 10:34 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nellie1289 View Post
how does every thread that has a poor guy asking about what to expect with a fifth wheel, turn into the weight police every single time. I know you guys are just trying to help but OP already gets it.
Mostly because just about all think "I got a truck, I can tow anything", which in most cases IS NOT the case. Unfortunately in a good percentage of those cases the rv salesman also stated "yes you can tow anything on the lot", they don't know & don't care as long as they sell something & bigger cost more which means more commission.
I only wish more would come here to ask the weight police 1st, before listening to salespeople, rather than coming on afterwards looking for verification.
The OP may have plenty of payload for that rv, but by only giving the max tow rating instead of the payload the weight police are just informing of what numbers should be used to determine his trucks capabilities. I'm quite sure his truck will "move" about anything he hooks up to, but can it "carry" the weight of whatever he hooks to it. No one has said he can't or shouldn't tow that rv with that truck, but check the numbers to insure his & his family's safety.
Not all tow vehicles are created equal, some were never designed to tow RVs, all the add-ons, brochure numbers or anything the salesman may spew will make so.
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Old 01-26-2021, 10:36 AM   #23
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The point of my post is that the original message never even remotely asks about tow vehicle recommendations, what rig he plans on towing with, etc. how he is going to camp with it, how many kids he has, yada yada. it just goes instantly and straight into recommendations on what type of truck he should have, how many pots and pans he can have, and how heavy the trailer could be as the first recommendation or tip. It wasn't his question. Next thing you know we are talking about boats and how much gear someone packs and velocities on the water. The suggestions are not bad, i even said as such, people are trying to help, my point was every thread ends up in the weight police.
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Old 01-26-2021, 10:47 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by nellie1289 View Post
The point of my post is that the original message never even remotely asks about tow vehicle recommendations, what rig he plans on towing with, etc. how he is going to camp with it, how many kids he has, yada yada. it just goes instantly and straight into recommendations on what type of truck he should have, how many pots and pans he can have, and how heavy the trailer could be as the first recommendation or tip. It wasn't his question. Next thing you know we are talking about boats and how much gear someone packs and velocities on the water. The suggestions are not bad, i even said as such, people are trying to help, my point was every thread ends up in the weight police.

Nellie the above is another generalization that just isn't true. SOME threads end up with the weight police; those that mention "can I tow", "how do the weights work", got a new RV/5th wheel, got a new truck towing xyz, etc. - yes, many of those DO end up having weights discussed. Generally those conversations come about, sometimes unasked for, because the poster shows by their own comments that they are unaware of the numbers or possibly indicate they have made a bad assumption. In those cases it is the responsible thing to do when someone points out the possible weight issues along with the possible ramifications of towing overweight. Sometimes it is uncomfortable or irritating but it is a conversation that needs to take place.
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Old 01-26-2021, 12:08 PM   #25
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Congrats on your new camper.

In my opinion: You'll be fine with your truck. Go in peace! and Happy camping!
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Old 01-26-2021, 12:28 PM   #26
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As a recipient of unsolicited advice on my truck and fifth wheel combination I can say I’m truly grateful.... how would I ever have known that I was so lopsided on my weight numbers.
The salesman certainly didn’t tell me ..either did the same rv service department that installed my fifth wheel hitch and helped me hook up the first time.
I literally had no idea. Even after getting the first little rumblings on here about my truck I still did not fully understand UNTIL I went to a cat scale.
I’ve driven down the road with my rear van door open and tools about to spill out and NOBODY let me know...just drove right on by. I’m glad the people on here are so passionate about this subject.
It’s no different then if we all lived next to a lake that freezes over but too thin to skate on and once a month someone came on the community forum talking about how they were gonna take the whole family out on the lake for some skating...everyone would be chiming in (ice police) about how unsafe it is please reconsider!
The reason it comes up so often on this forum is because there is a never ending supply of green rv owners stumbling upon this forum after the rv dealer turns them loose with there toy hauler and 1997 f250 8800 gvwr.
If I haven’t said it before ....THANKS!
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Old 01-26-2021, 01:23 PM   #27
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I'll chime in one last time because I don't think it's been said yet. I think most of us that "jump to weight" subject is because we've been there and gone thru the mistakes and sometimes heartaches and headaches of being in the position. I hate to see anyone go down the path of buying a trailer that's too big for the truck. My personal "wake up call" was when my F150 and trailer nearly flipped at the top of a mountain.

I think the "skating on thin ice" is an excellent analogy. If anyone wants to be on the "welcoming committee" and not address the issue then carry on. But telling someone they'll be fine with their set up when you don't know that may make you and them "feel good" but it's a disservice to them. With your comment about the boat reference I guess I failed to meet your comprehension of the analogy.
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Old 01-26-2021, 03:58 PM   #28
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Let me give the OP and a coupe others of you a real number that I have posted before. When we sold the Raptor and bought the 'Suites we removed the bike with sidecar and all motorcycle associated products. We then pulled over our friendly CAT scale. All goodies were off-loaded into the garage on the utility trailer and the RV was weighed again at said CAT scale. The exact weight of all of Brenda's s--t and my stuff was 1900 pounds exactly. DO NOT think your weight won't sneak up on you as has been described!
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Old 01-26-2021, 04:17 PM   #29
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blueswede, What the folks are trying to say is that the gross weight of you new trailer is 13,980 lbs. This is gross weight and the safest thing to do is figure the probable pin weight from the gross weight irrespective of whether you ever load the camper with all the stuff to bring it up to that number. That makes a pin weight of about 3200 lbs. Your missus, puppies and junk in the truck including hitch will be added to that 3200 lbs. This is your PAYLOAD. Your F350 can drag that camper nicely; mine has a similar tow rating BUT that number isn't really the short pole in the tent. Look at your PAYLOAD PLACARD. What does it say? Say your computed payload number comes to 3800 lbs... If your payload placard says 4000 lbs, you are golden. Here is a PAYLOAD PLACARD located in your driver door frame. What is your payload number per the placard:
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Old 01-26-2021, 04:19 PM   #30
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By the way guys, I am reading impaired in that any post over 17 pages long makes me faint. You know who you are guys! Keep it to manageable lengths for the sake of this idiot! TIA
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Old 01-26-2021, 04:44 PM   #31
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So there has been a lot of good info on here. My thanks. The sticker on my door shows a payload max of just over 3K. Typically, it is me, my wife and 3 dogs. Some food, fuel and that's about it. We have always travelled light and will continue to do that. We have talked about the mistake of thinking "oh, just stick in the trailer". That won't happen again. I am taking possession on Saturday. I'll drive back with only me in the truck and nothing in the trailer. I have decided that if I feel it necessary to be safe, I"m willing to upgrade my truck to a dually. Mine is paid off.
I feel like a bit of an idiot, not computing all of the necessary weight considerations in advance, but we had no plans on upgrading to a 5th wheel. You'd think by now I'd be smarter than that.......my fault for listening to the wrong people.....
As far as loading up more stuff into the rig as times goes by, that again, won't happen. Especially in light of this conversation.
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Old 01-26-2021, 04:45 PM   #32
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Thankfully, the only toys we have are some chairs and my guitar....and 2 Ipads.
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Old 01-26-2021, 04:53 PM   #33
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One question I have is the gross weight of the trailer. The brochure says that it is 11,695. The carrying capacity is 2285. Is that what the max the trailer can safely carry? Food, linens, toiletries, etc?
We are not big fans of dry camping; we go to one spot once a year, and they have water there to fill up with. That's not going to be an issue.
Again, according to the Ford site, my truck has a capacity of 15,700. Not trying to be repetitive, just trying to understand it all.
Thanks again for the help....
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Old 01-26-2021, 05:04 PM   #34
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The GVWR of the trailer is the maximum designed weight that includes everything you load into it

Your truck is rated to PULL 15,700 pounds not CARRY it.
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Old 01-26-2021, 05:14 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Blueswede View Post
One question I have is the gross weight of the trailer. The brochure says that it is 11,695. The carrying capacity is 2285. Is that what the max the trailer can safely carry? Food, linens, toiletries, etc?
We are not big fans of dry camping; we go to one spot once a year, and they have water there to fill up with. That's not going to be an issue.
Again, according to the Ford site, my truck has a capacity of 15,700. Not trying to be repetitive, just trying to understand it all.
Thanks again for the help....
The 11695 is the dry weight of the bare trailer when it fell off the end of the assembly line. .....the 2285 is the total weight of what can then be put into it. Add the two together 11695+ 2285 and that’s the gvwr. That’s the number you should be looking t because when it comes off the assembly line at 11695 then they add the weight of full propane tanks, then you add batterys ( your gonna want at least two, maybe heavy golf cart batteries)
Start subtracting these off of the 2285
Then start subtracting every little thing you put in there ....it all comes off of the 2285.
When you “pack light” you may find after adding all of the little things up ( food,iPads,sheets,dishes,etc that you have added 1000 lbs to the dry weight of the trailer.
So now your at 12695 and you only have 1285 left to remotely possibly put in the trailer without overloading it.
So a realistic number is probably closer to 12600 IF you packed light

Go shopping once and try to carry all the food in a full cart all at once...it’s pretty heavy. All that adds to the weight in the trailer which pushes you way over the dry listed weight.
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Old 01-26-2021, 05:15 PM   #36
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The GVWR of the trailer is the maximum designed weight that includes everything you load into it

Your truck is rated to PULL 15,700 pounds not CARRY it.
That I understand....my question is the difference between the weight of the trailer and the carrying capacity. These two numbers are included in the description of the trailer.....
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Old 01-26-2021, 05:18 PM   #37
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The 11695 is the dry weight of the bare trailer when it fell off the end of the assembly line. .....the 2285 is the total weight of what can then be put into it. Add the two together 11695+ 2285 and that’s the gvwr. That’s the number you should be looking t because when it comes off the assembly line at 11695 then they add the weight of full propane tanks, then you add batterys ( your gonna want at least two, maybe heavy golf cart batteries)
Start subtracting these off of the 2285
Then start subtracting every little thing you put in there ....it all comes off of the 2285.
When you “pack light” you may find after adding all of the little things up ( food,iPads,sheets,dishes,etc that you have added 1000 lbs to the dry weight of the trailer.
So now your at 12695 and you only have 1285 left to remotely possibly put in the trailer without overloading it.
So a realistic number is probably closer to 12600 IF you packed light

Go shopping once and try to carry all the food in a full cart all at once...it’s pretty heavy. All that adds to the weight in the trailer which pushes you way over the dry listed weight.
Got it....now the idea of a dually sounds more appealing....
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Old 01-26-2021, 05:21 PM   #38
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One question I have is the gross weight of the trailer. The brochure says that it is 11,695. The carrying capacity is 2285. Is that what the max the trailer can safely carry? Food, linens, toiletries, etc?
We are not big fans of dry camping; we go to one spot once a year, and they have water there to fill up with. That's not going to be an issue.
Again, according to the Ford site, my truck has a capacity of 15,700. Not trying to be repetitive, just trying to understand it all.
Thanks again for the help....
Personally I appreciate you working on this. Some things;

Tow capacity (15,700) is meaningless. There are multiple weight limitations and that one is usually a sales gimmick, for a certain, one off equipped truck. The 2265 IS your carrying capacity and the max you should load in the trailer. Some will max that out, some won't. The only safe way to calculate your anticipated weights, without a scale, is use the gvwr of the trailer; dry weight + carrying capacity. IF you were to hit a scale the trailer needs to be loaded to the max of what you will need/want for camping including full waste tanks. Don't think that putting nothing in it "helps". And, having not had a 5th wheel before I can ASSURE you that the new available space WILL be used.

Like you, I always said I did not need, nor want, a 5th wheel. After spending lengthy times in our former TT we decided we would get a mid profile 5th. Bought a new 1 ton to get a 315RLS. As we moved toward finalizing DW all of a sudden decided she wanted/NEEDED a stackable washer/dryer - against everything we had ever discussed so I understand the "never thought I would have one" thought.

Your truck, although a 1 ton, is a diesel which reduces payload significantly. Your payload is about what mine was with my 3/4 ton; 3190. So in reality you have the carrying capacity of a 3/4 ton with a "1 ton" truck.

The numbers can be confusing and many times prove to be aggravating and expensive. The numbers, if you will use and adhere to all of them, will tell you easily what truck fits what trailer or what trailer fits what truck. It does take some research but in the end the effort is to keep you and yours safe.

Just keep in mind that things like "I'll never carry water or full waste tanks", I only take short trips, we load light, we've always been lucky etc. are recipes for both danger and unhappiness. The 5th wheel will invite loading "stuff", and despite what you think, you will load more "stuff" - there's just too much room and it is far too inconvenient to try to travel and do without, or, you can do as I used to do; either leave much of the "stuff" I wanted at home, OR, I bought all that stuff repeatedly at destinations and gave it away before I left - that gets old.
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Old 01-26-2021, 05:23 PM   #39
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One question I have is the gross weight of the trailer. The brochure says that it is 11,695. The carrying capacity is 2285. Is that what the max the trailer can safely carry? Food, linens, toiletries, etc?
We are not big fans of dry camping; we go to one spot once a year, and they have water there to fill up with. That's not going to be an issue.
Again, according to the Ford site, my truck has a capacity of 15,700. Not trying to be repetitive, just trying to understand it all.
Thanks again for the help....
You've got the wrong "nomenclature" for what you're describing.

The 11695 in the brochure is the "shipping weight". That's the weight for the empty trailer with empty propane tanks and no battery or spare tire. Keep in mind that weight is in a brochure, so there is no way it can account for any optional equipment in YOUR trailer or any changes in production as the model year progresses. So, the "brochure shipping weight" is a fantasy figure..... Your trailer might weigh something close (when it's empty) or it might weigh as much as 1000 pounds more than the brochure.

The cargo capacity is how much you can add to the empty trailer before you reach the maximum safe weight. In the brochure, that weight is 2285. Again, remember that does not include the weight of anything optional on your specific trailer and it doesn't include propane or batteries which come directly out of the 2285.

The GROSS TRAILER WEIGHT RATING GTWR or GVWR is the weight of the empty trailer AND the maximum cargo capacity, In your trailer that's 11695+2285. So the GTWR or GVWR is 13980. That is the maximum that your trailer can weigh when it reaches the maximum cargo. Water and waste water must be included in that weight.

The Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) is the actual weight of the trailer, as it sits. It will vary from the empty trailer to maximum depending on how much cargo/water/waste water is in it at any given time. You can think of it as the curb weight, or how much the scale would read if you placed the trailer on a scale at any given time. That weight will vary from trip to trip, depending on what you packed in the closets and cupboards.

Pin weight will be around 20-25% of the total weight. You will NEVER see the pin weight in the brochure because you will NEVER have the trailer with no spare, no propane, no water or waste water and no battery. So, that "advertised pin weight " is a fantasy number.....

I'd guess that when you leave the dealership with your "empty trailer" it will weigh 11695+60 (propane)+45 (battery)+100 (spare tire and rack)=11900 and then you'll need to add the weight of any optional equipment such as a second air conditioner, a solar system, an extra battery or any other "add ons" that the dealership included. Don't forget, if the dealer left the fresh water tank half full, that's 40 gallons @ 8 lbs/gallon or another 320 pounds.

So, if the water tanks are empty, your pin weight will range somewhere between 20-25% of 11900 pounds (2380-2975). Then, depending on the brand/model of your fifth wheel hitch, you will need to add that weight to the pin weight to get the total pounds you're adding to the truck payload. Most fifth wheel hitches range from around 125-200 pounds and a sliding hitch will add another 50-100 pounds above that for a total of 175-300 pounds, depending on which hitch you buy.

The best thing for you to remember is the "brochure 11695" is fantasy, not reality, so get it out of your mind completely. You'll NEVER see your trailer at that weight.
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Old 01-26-2021, 05:25 PM   #40
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Got it....now the idea of a dually sounds more appealing....
This is my weigh tickets. It was not grossly overloaded. Just me and my wife. And a few extras and two bikes on the back.
It wasn’t hard to get close to 12000 lbs on a 10+ listed dry weight fifth wheel in my signature..the way I was loaded that day ..I only had 400 lbs of available payload carry capacity for the trailer left
My truck was payed off and was in great shape but overloaded.
I just bought a dually for MY fifth wheel and it’s a little one compared to yours
The 8140 is the weight of just my truck. Subtract that from the 20120 and you get the weight of the trailer
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