Poor Quality 2021 Alpine 3850RD

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by notanlines

Two blanket statements have been made that are blatantly untrue: RV techs don’t know what they’re doing, and Camping World doesn’t do a good job.
Over the years I have read on these forums of customers constantly traveling many miles to save a few hundred on an RV and then expect “Mom and Pop’s Friendly RV” to fix their problems post haste right close to home. Might I ask how Camping World got to be as big as they are if they (and their techs) are as bad as you say?
Lots of good techs AND good Camping Worlds in this country. Shop close to home, quit trying to squeeze every last dollar out of a sale, and stop with the blanket statements.

Well said. Following are some general observations and not implicating anyone or and single post here.

One of the societal issues today in my opinion is the tendency to condemn a group or all for the actions of the individual and the expectation of receiving Royal treatment after undercutting the upfront deal or buying an inferior product to begin with. Are there bad RV dealers and techs? Of course there are but that doesn't make ALL of them bad.

When we have a bad experience we should "run it up" the chain of command to get resolution. If you don't receive a "reasonable" response to your "reasonable" expectation then by all means we should be shouting "beware" and steer clear of THAT location to everyone who will listen. Conversely I believe in expressing a positive experience. There have been many an occasion the I've asked the waitstaff at a restaurant to "please bring me the manager" and when they come to the table I'll ask the waitstaff to stay. Then I'll tell the manager what a great and valuable employee they have". They both need to hear that IMO when they go above and beyond.

When a negative experience comes along I've found that how you approach the issue will greatly affect the outcome. Starting off with a temper tantrum, yelling, threatening to sue, etc. will most likely not end well for the aggrieved party. There may be a time for all those responses but not "out of the gate". Starting off aggressively doesn't make a statement that "you're in charge" or that "you're the boss". It simply let's everyone know that you're a jerk. We all have bad days and we never know what's going on in an individual's life. If the "general attitude" of the establishment is bad then showing your ignorance won't alter their ignorance.

The below is directed to the OP and I'd encourage everyone to occasionally read over the forum rules, especially when someone's post "pushes your buttons" and you find that you just want to attack them personally or start a political debate.

The OP is obviously upset and I understand that however there are two issues with the post. The first is the entire post is in bold. In the Forum rules under the Posting Standards ...
"Forum members should use the standard fonts available on the forum. The use of bold, large or colored fonts should be used sparingly. Posts containing inappropriate formatting will be removed or modified at our discretion; e.g. all caps or excessive color."

Secondly, in the Forum Rules, under Customer Disputes it reads...
'This forum is not intended to be a mechanism for people to solely vent frustrations about services, products, vendors, or sales. Please settle your differences with the seller, provider, manufacturer, or dealer through other means but not through our community."

[foldbak]

If it makes you feel any better finding a good dealership that will fight for you will solve your problems. I felt the same way after buying my first new 2018 Keystone trailer. I've always bought used trailers and never experienced anything like buying new. Buying used and well maintained typically means the bugs have been worked out. As it turns out this is the norm industry wide. I thought that spending 40K on a brand new trailer was like buying a new car. Not so much! My repair list is WAY too long to type but here are some highlights. Every window was replaced and the entire roof was replaced. Point is there is no quality control. They can barley keep up with demand but if you find a good dealership they'll resolve you issues. You're going to need patience! My rig was at the dealership a total of 10 months. It leaves today for the coast. First time it's been out since having the roof replaced.....thanks Covid

[pdaniel]

Every RV manufacturer, particularly those RVs that are not made to order, have quality and manufacturing issues. I owned a Keystone product. I was unhappy with both the TT and Keystone customer “service”.
Traded, at a loss, for a Grand Design Solitude. Same quality issues-screws not long enough or in far enough, trim that falls off, but, not to the extent the former Cougar experienced. A week and a half ago my living area AC stopped providing cooling air. Contacted the manufacturer of the AC-still waiting. Contacted Grand Design for help, and, Grand Design intervened on my behalf and obtained a warranty reimbursement from the manufacturer of the AC. Did Grand Design need to do this? Nope, the AC is not their product, only an appliance.
Bottom line is look beyond the shiny objects and at engineering and design, assembly and foremost, service after the sale.
Van Leigh has a good product, but, the Vilano has its issues, just like Grand Design and a few others.
Look beyond the name and shiny things....
And, I feel your pain. Been there.

[chuckster57]

Every RV manufacturer, particularly those RVs that are not made to order, have quality and manufacturing issues.

In my years as an RV tech, I have found the "factory order" units to have MORE issues than ones being built for "inventory". Factory ordered units are "paid for" and as such the customer gets what he/she gets. I had a $375,000.00 factory ordered class A come in with over 10 SERIOUS issues. After some dealing with the factory a Second unit was built and it was a little better. I would NEVER BUY a factory ordered unit. JMHO, YMMV

[mlk1950]

I had a Hideout not long ago. It definitely had it's issues and I would come on here and complain. These guys always said that no matter what you get, it will have it's problems. Sounds like yours had way more than its share. Well we decided to splurge and get a little larger one, so we went and bought a brand new Lance 1985. Reading and hearing that Lance is supposed to be one of the top line campers out there, we did it. Just as these guys have always said, no matter what you get, they all have issues. They were right of course, because ours has it's issues as well. The biggest is the Dometic refrigerator keeps popping "Thermal Fuses" when driving down the road on propane. Now to me that's a big issue, if you are not carrying spare "Thermal Fuses" with you. That kills power to the whole fridge to where it won't work on AC or LP. I did a lot of research on Lance before I pulled the trigger, at least I thought I did. Don't get me wrong, the Lance is a nice trailer, but a lot of things are put together rather cheaply. No matter what you get, you will have issues of some sort. I always said to myself, buy 2 years old or more, but nope I bought new, and my tools are coming in handy again.

[CaptnJohn]

CW ~~ the best price and service I've found has been at Myrtle Beach CW. Yes it helps that I have bought my last 5 units from them. I know the sales manager, 2 salespersons, the service manager and 2 of the best techs, and the 2 service writers I work with.. I also have a local mobile tech that's good.
VanLeigh is no different. There is no QC at any builder. That would not be so bad if they (any of the builders) had a good workforce. No background checks, no drug checks, if fired the company down the street hires them to do the same shoddy work. Piecework means they move as fast as they can to get them out the door and leave for the day. I've been happy with my last 3 Montanas, not one went back for warranty work. May help they are not sitting most of their life as we are traveling 7 months annually.

[McRod]

Originally Posted by PaPa Redfish

Purchased this Alpine less than a month ago and all I can say is how poor the quality is. Cannot believe how Keystone could put such junk out there for sale.

See below all problems in less than a month:

1. Kitchen sinks rust over night. When I say rust, it is bad.
2. Furrion oven control is over 80 degrees off and the oven will not get hotter than 390 degrees.
3. Kitchen faucet leaks when off.
4. Furrion stove will not stay lit on less than half. Thank god the propane detector works.
5. Had to pull underbelly to connect a dump valve.
6. Closet doors fell off when doing a load of clothes as the screws were only put into the wood two threads.
7. Elevated living room floor or the plywood rather above step has come loose from the floor joists now the trim has popped up.
8. The walls in places are missing insulation as you can feel the heat coming through and six inches to the side the wall is cool. This happens in places on all walls.
   

Have no idea what else is going to happen. This fifth wheel is so cheap I plan to take the loss after the first of the year and purchase a Van Leigh. Keystone has been contacted so many times and all they say is take it in to a dealer. The local dealer they recommended for repairs stated he would not touch it because of such the poor quality of Keystone products. The other dealer Keystone recommended cannot touch my fifth wheel for two months as he is so back logged with warranty work on Keystones.


When did the quality go so south on Keystones???

Amish don't work on Tuesdays. That's the day your RV was built.

[chunker]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

In my years as an RV tech, I have found the "factory order" units to have MORE issues than ones being built for "inventory". Factory ordered units are "paid for" and as such the customer gets what he/she gets. I had a $375,000.00 factory ordered class A come in with over 10 SERIOUS issues. After some dealing with the factory a Second unit was built and it was a little better. I would NEVER BUY a factory ordered unit. JMHO, YMMV

However I couldn't get what I wanted from stock. Seems like every Raptor I looked at in person and online had things like patio system, king bed and single pane windows, things I did NOT want. So the only way to get it "my way" was order. So far I'm pretty happy with it but do wish the cabinets weren't so high. I swear this thing was made for someone 6'10".

[InkedMarie]

We have a Bullet. No problems as of yet. We know in a few years, we want to get something else for travel. We’re in NH & our dream is to go out west. We stopped by CW to look at larger TT’s and 5th wheels.

All we looked at was Keystone as all they had for new was them plus Coleman (btdt) and one Pioneer.

We were disgusted by what we saw. The quality was horrible. How you leave units open where knobs are hanging off, doors off one hinge & sawdust on the floors is beyond me.

We then went to check out the quality of Winnebagos. Night & day difference. When the time comes, we will look at them, Grand Design & Alliance.

Sorry you had such a laundry list of problems!

[wiredgeorge]

I have a 2002 Cougar and nothing is failing, falling off or crappy in the way it was built. Problems? The stereo (5 CD disk changer doesn't work) looks like it came out of K-Mart and is GLUED to the wood beneath and I haven't had the inclination to yank it out and then fix or replace the luan beneath. All minor issues I have had are age related such as:
1. rubber exterior window trim dried/curled up (replaced)
2. outside plastic (like hatch catches) brittle and needed to be replaced
3. Ladder screws rusted and became unsafe/unusable (replaced with SS screws) (ladder now refastened and solid)
4. AC venting not sealed properly (aluminum duct tape fixed)
5. Lots of voids where mice could get in (spray foam sealer fixed)
6. Exterior decals faded (ignored)
7. Shower enclosure brittle and cracked where pop rivets applied to tightly (replaced with no pop rivets only 3M sealant purpose made)
I have made other changes, modifications and fixes but these were not really needed just used to make the camper the way I want. I fixed all the other things myself. I don't need to complain to Keystone or some dealer or their techs. My advice is to buy a used unit that someone else has remedied the things wrong and more importantly avoid the huge depreciation when buying new and avoid the irritation of relying on a dealer to replace screws or glue stuff to keep that semi-useless warranty in effect. If in doubt, read the MANY posts regarding dealers service departments fixing small issues. Get these things fixed BEFORE signing on the dotted line if you insist on buying new.

[edwardsm1]

I agree, we bought a 2020 Hideout in March while only having minor problems,is sink drain broke off, radio stopped working red door panel fell. I wish I had taken a better look at quality of the workmanship. You see where glue seeped through wall fabric screws only half in and usually crooked, etc. We retired this year and because of things have only used trailer a few times, not sure if used a lot would have big problems. Not impressed with Key stone quality

[crowbar]

Right on with George's view on post #30.

[sourdough]

[QUOTE=InkedMarie;403655]We have a Bullet. No problems as of yet. We know in a few years, we want to get something else for travel. We’re in NH & our dream is to go out west. We stopped by CW to look at larger TT’s and 5th wheels.

All we looked at was Keystone as all they had for new was them plus Coleman (btdt) and one Pioneer.

We were disgusted by what we saw. The quality was horrible. How you leave units open where knobs are hanging off, doors off one hinge & sawdust on the floors is beyond me.

We then went to check out the quality of Winnebagos. Night & day difference. When the time comes, we will look at them, Grand Design & Alliance.


Be sure and look closely. They are all the same. The items you pointed out are due to a dealer not prepping a unit...they all come in the same way with something amiss....all of them. I suppose I've looked at most things out there (except toy haulers) and if you look, they are all the same. There isn't one, repeat one, RV manufacturer that is sitting there telling their techs to make sure every I is dotted and every T is crossed, no screw loose, none stripped...that RV doesn't exist. Just be sure you look through the one you want upside, downside and everyside. Even if it looks good something is going to fail.

[Bill-2020]

Originally Posted by InkedMarie

... & sawdust on the floors is beyond me.

If you only knew how much sawdust I've vacuumed out of two campers we've owned. You're new one may not have any on the floor in front of the bathroom door when you buy it, but don't dare to open any access panel to... oh, i don't know, bypass the water heater or look under the dinette seats! I actually gained a PEX crimp tool that was left behind on our Jayco that I found behind the bathtub/water heater access panel. (I now carry PEX tubing, clamps and fittings in the tool box along with that crimp tool, and I've used it!) Our Keystone had better final quality and fewer problems than the Jayco, BTW.

[Gunny Mike]

I'm not a repeat customer myself.

[chuckster57]

I have a very nice pair of seamstress scissors in my toolbox thanks to Tiffen, a 7/8” drill bit thanks to Grand designs, And countless connectors of various types and sizes from others.

[InkedMarie]

Wow. I don’t understand why units are shipped like this. Naive me assumed they’d be shipped all ready to go.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by InkedMarie

Wow. I don’t understand why units are shipped like this. Naive me assumed they’d be shipped all ready to go.

In a perfect world they would. Truth is they ALL need to be checked before delivery. Some dealers do a better job of this and some don’t even check.

[Bill-2020]

Originally Posted by InkedMarie

Wow. I don’t understand why units are shipped like this. Naive me assumed they’d be shipped all ready to go.

They are ready to go.... right into the service bays. This makes me wonder... Do the dealers get paid by the factory(ies) for fixing what needs attention on PDIs. Or is it assumed by the dealer that they will have X % of the selling price tied up in PDI repairs? Chuckster?

[Javi]

Back in the early 80's I spent a couple of years doing mechanical work at a local RV dealer and so I knew that there are no two dealers alike. The one I worked for took pride in his product and more importantly in his word..

When we delivered an RV to a owner it was ready to be used, that's not to say that something wouldn't show up after a trip or two.... because after all these things are boxes built on wheels and towed at highway speeds over roads built by the cheapest bidder..

We towed the new Avalanche 50 miles to a COE campground this weekend and the first thing we noticed is that you can't tow this trailer with the curtains down... and don't put anything on the couch and expect it to stay while towing.. everything else worked as it should have.

Oh... and I need to buy a new ladder, my old step ladder won't let me reach the stove vent..

A good dealer checks everything in the RV... but the most important tool an owner can have is a great "independent" RV repairman who is factory certified by the name brand appliance companies... They live by their reputation....