Idiotic Design

[NavyMustang]

I can't help but wonder what kind of moronic engineers they have working at KeystoneRV. We have had nothing but problems with our only THREE YEAR OLD Bullet 248RKS, and most of what we're experiencing is because of piss-poor design. It's pretty common-sense stuff. For example, don't place water tanks directly over a cross-beam that you screw the underbelly into. It results in holes in the water tank when the self-tapping screws are inserted. And who in their right mind would design kitchen under-cabinet storage shelves with cheap staples upwards so as to not be able to store anything whatsoever ON the shelves without the cheap, thin luan bowing and caving in. (See photo.)

Dear Keystone: If you ever read these forums, I'm not an engineer, but I am a HELL of a lot smarter than the morons you have working for you. If you ever need some design tips, please feel free to contact me. We will NEVER purchase a garbage product from your company again.

Cheers!

"Running on MT"

[sourdough]

Sorry for your problems. You might read the disclaimer at the bottom of the page; the website is not affiliated with Keystone RV in any way and I'm not aware of anyone from Keystone that ever reads or monitors it.

[NH_Bulldog]

All manufacturers have their issues, regardless of brand or price. Even in the same factory, on the same production line, you will find a great deal of variance in build quality from unit to unit. If those issues are the worst you have after 3 years of use, it doesn’t sound too bad. Sucks to be sure, but it could be worse.

[LHaven]

I realized that consistently intelligent design was probably an unreasonable expectation when I went to attach my new license plate to my new Cougar (see image).

("Satellite Prep" is actually "Park Cable," but the label isn't the problem.)

[notanlines]

Mustang, sorry, but no hurt feelings on this forum, nor will anyone here give it a second thought. Better that you should address the comments in an email to a specific individual at the plant. And I suspect if you don't tone it down a little it will be posted for all the employees to laugh at. And, whereas what you say is I'm sure true, three years in an entry-level RV with only minor problems isn't too bad.

[B-O-B'03]

Agreed!

I have had to shore up and rebuild just abut every shelf in our trailer, none of them had any structural integrity.

Pretty piss poor, but we still love the trailer, it is perfect for the 2 of us and now that I have fixed it, we have had no more issues.

-Brian

[SummitPond]

Like yours (as shown in the photo) our shelves in the 19FBPR were stapled to the underside of the support braces - something I don't understand - what were they thinking? When ours "fell through" (all the way - total separation) my solution was to remount them on the top side and add additional screws through the support pieces - no further issues.

[sourdough]

I guess, as a person that builds stuff, analyzes "things" and looks for shortcomings, seeing a shelf like that (or any of the hundred other things you find) I just fix it. I KNOW that the shelf can't support anything....but I know that on walk through. Idiotic design? I doubt it. Cheap? Of course, but then again I know that.

As far as Keystone "garbage" due to the shelf design etc., I would encourage anyone to go look at all of the RVs out there....you're going to find it everywhere, not just Keystone....unless you want to plop down 200k for a "toy"; not me.

[chuckster57]

I wonder if the worker on the line had problems reading blue prints and thought they went in that way.

[wiredgeorge]

I have to doubt that the worker on the line putting those shelves in had specific instruction to staple them from the bottom or some drawing telling him to. More likely they were put in while the cabinet was upside down and that seemed like the right way to do it or it was easier to put staples in from the underside. I doubt any engineer ever considered the direction of the staples. Just a guess...

[travelin texans]

All the cabinetry is built off-site & wiredgeorge is probably absolutely correct, it came down the line upside down with an employee that was flipping burgers yesterday & may not be the only one nailed that way.

[ctbruce]

And yet...we buy them any way as fast as they make them. Why? Because a bad day camping is better than the best day working.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by ctbruce

And yet...we buy them any way as fast as they make them. Why? Because a bad day camping is better than the best day working.

I go camping every day...just not in my trailer LOL!!!

[66joej]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

I wonder if the worker on the line had problems reading blue prints and thought they went in that way.

I think the blueprints were handed to Jacob upside down so not his fault.

[B-O-B'03]

Originally Posted by ctbruce

And yet...we buy them any way as fast as they make them. Why? Because a bad day camping is better than the best day working.

+1

I do not complain about the dumb stuff I find, just fix it and move on.

I do wonder sometimes about what they are thinking (or not) when these things are built.

We still love it, are glad we have it and the time to use it.

-Brian

[jsmith948]

Could it be that the shelves are intentionally designed that way to limit the amount of weight one can store on said shelf? ...just a thought, it IS a lightweight trailer

[NavyMustang]

Well, I sure was rather irate when I posted this last night, but I stand by it. It's not only the shelves.

Water tank has a hole in it because Keystone screwed the underbelly into the crossbeam that the tank sits on.

Luan has started to come up in three areas at the edge of the roof causing it to pull up on the rubber membrane.

No support beam installed under flooring on one side of the heater vent next to the dining table. Every time I step on that area, it feels like I'm going to fall through.

Toilet valve failed.

Shelves fell in.

Water heater control board failed.

Refrigerator constantly stops igniting on gas and needs reset.

I know this isn't an official forum, but they likely scan them often looking for issues. They say in their promotional materials that they pride themselves on quality. Total horse pooey. "Entry level" or not, it is garbage. Would anyone put up with a $30,000 AUTOMOBILE that was so cheaply made? Remember the Yugo?

[itat]

NavyMustang, you said in an earlier thread that you're looking to go full time eventually and you want to add solar. Sounds like you need to upgrade to another, better quality unit before you start investing that kind of money and effort.

You generally get what you pay for. I would rather buy a used unit from a better quality brand than buy a new unit for the same money from a low end brand. I think a new unit after this Bullet would be your 4th? So you should have gained a lot of knowledge about what to look for.

I can tell you that when we were shopping for a new 5er last year, I went through a lot of units to get a representative idea of the quality they put into various brands. I really liked the floorplans in the Cougar 30RLS and the 315RLS 5ers but when I saw staples in the kitchen cabinets it became a show stopper for me. There were a few other things that were not as good as the FR Rockwood we ended up buying. I can't guarantee it will be better than the Cougars but I do have experience with the brand from our 2 previous units that have both been above average quality - and both purchased used.

I hope you can get your issues resolved, or move on without a big financial hit.

[JRTJH]

itat hit on a topic that seems to have "flown over the head" of most RV shoppers.

Manufacturers build several "different conceptual trailers" to meet the demand of different consumers. Some want a BIG trailer and have a "Yugo" to pull it with... Some want a CHEAP trailer and don't want to pay more than $xx for it, Some want a trailer that "looks like it's well built" with all the "bling" but refuse to buy a "luxury trailer"....

So, to meet those varied demands, Keystone, Forest River, Jayco and many smaller "one or two line" manufacturers build a variety of trailer concepts....

Note the "trailer concepts" is bolded... That's the "key" to shopping for an RV. Far too many buyers have simply "FAILED MISERABLY" at comprehending the concept. If you buy a 34', 4200 pound trailer, you WILL NOT get solid floors, thick insulation, heavy carpet, thick, comfortable mattresses or huge FW, black and gray storage tanks. Don't expect 30 pound propane tanks and heavy "solid oak cabinets".... Ain't gonna happen....

To complain about "my trailer is built cheaply, has a thin floor and the shelves are stapled in place" when you buy a lightweight trailer, designed to be pulled by a lightweight tow vehicle.... Well, you simply can't market to owners of those vehicles by only providing the market with a 11,000 pound 30' trailer...

In my "previous career" I can't tell you how many people came into my office complaining that their "blood sugar was too high" and also complaining "diet food doesn't taste good".... They buy "high sugar foods" and expect the same results as you'd get from eating sugar free alternatives......

Same with travel trailers: You simply won't find the durability, construction, materials, comfort or appearance in a $15,000/4000 pound ultra-lite trailer that you'll find in a $60,000/12,000 pound "full time unit".

Adding solar to a cheap, light weight trailer won't improve livability, it'll only allow you to burn the lights longer into the night while you're fixing the things that weren't designed for full time use.

[notanlines]

This is what comes from a quality RV: Jacket and utility cabinet is glued and screwed, stained and finished almost to perfection, hardware and coat hooks of the highest quality stainless....with the coat hooks HUNG AT 8'-6" ABOVE FLOOR LEVEL!!
You just can't make this crap up.