Black Tank Indicator

[{tpc}]

So last week while camping, I noticed the blank tank indicator never went up off of E, despite use during the week. Is there a possibility of the sensor being "stuck" in that position, and where is the sensor typically located?

We have a passport 2300bh.

Some history to go along with the question. We had a city water hookup but only a dump, no sewers at this camp. Near the evening of day 2, the gray water was full, due primarily to the DW doing dishes and some "laundry", as well as showering. Gray was full enough to back up into the shower. I also found out that the DW was not using the toilet properly and some extra items made their way into the black tank. Let us not discuss how they were removed.

At any rate, I took the trailer over to the dump, and dumped both tanks. When I made it to the dump I looked in the shower one last time, still backed up but not as much. I attribute this to the pad being not 100% level. With everything dumped as it should, I once again parked the trailer.

At this point for the next 2 days we continued to use both the black and gray tanks, this time with EXPLICIT instructions continually reiterated by yours truly.

When we left, once again the gray was just about full, which I attribute to my taking of a shower, that I had not done prior (in the trailer!), but the black was still reading E. Of course dumping proved that it was not on E.

Both times I did a flush using the black tank flush on the back of the trailer as well as the flushing spray as included with my camco "dual flush" adapter. So is it possible that the sensor is messed up somehow or has something holding it in the wrong position?

[BirchyBoy]

My understanding is that there are probes in the side of the tank that signals the panel to the water/waste level (no probes = empty, lowest probe equals 1/3, etc). The problem is usually when paper gets stuck the black tank probes and signals an higher-than-actual reading. If it isn't reading at all, I'd suspect a loose connection somewhere.

http://www.rvprobes.com/howitworks.html

[{tpc}]

Originally Posted by BirchyBoy

My understanding is that there are probes in the side of the tank that signals the panel to the water/waste level (no probes = empty, lowest probe equals 1/3, etc). The problem is usually when paper gets stuck the black tank probes and signals an higher-than-actual reading. If it isn't reading at all, I'd suspect a loose connection somewhere.

Ok thanks. I'll try and monitor its usage this weekend, and see if it goes up.

I also just recalled that prior to leaving I thought I saw it at 1/3 full, even though it was dumped, and I thought that maybe something had been stuck on the sensor like you said. But when we got to camp, it read E.

Aside from looking into the toilet, is there any other way to tell how full the tank is? I am guessing that the toilet is the only thing connected to the black, as when the shower backed up, it didn't look or smell like black water at all. I did check the other two sinks at that point which had not backed up yet, but must have been on their way. I assume the shower backs up first because its drain is the lowest.

[BirchyBoy]

I bought a cleaning wand for my black tank that goes directly down into the tank from the toilet. I guess you could use it to check the level as well; dry it and then dip it.

Yes, only the toilet goes into the black. Everything else is grey.

[Javi]

The OEM tank indicators are all notoriously inaccurate, especially the black tank. Most of us who have been around the block a couple of times are very casual about depending on the indicators and use other methods for determining how full a particular tank is.

For the black tank it will begin to gurgle when it is approaching full and if you look down the hole you will see the water rising into the down pipe.

Of course you have already found the best indicator for the grey tank, when it starts gurgling and then backs up into the shower it is time to dump.

The galley tank is pretty much the same and you will hear it gurgle as well just before it backs up into the sink.

Again most of us have purchased the blue or grey dumpettes in various sizes to handle the grey water and galley tanks. I recommend that if possible you acquire one that is as least as big as your grey tank.

I currently have a 30 gallon grey tank and a 35 gallon tote tank. Most of us do not use the dumpette for the black tank as usually a family of 4 can go for several days on even a 30 gallon black tank before it needs dumping.

After a few times you will just know it's time to dump by the number of showers taken (5 to 6 for the DW and I combined) and the amount of dish washing being done.

As a note we rarely use dishes we have to wash and when we do the washing is done outside in a plastic tub..

[BirchyBoy]

A galley tank? Fancy!

[{tpc}]

Originally Posted by BirchyBoy

A galley tank? Fancy!

Hehe! I don't think we have a galley tank...yet anyways lol!

Thanks for the info Javi and BirchyBoy. Guess there is something else I need to invest in now lol.

Still looking for a nice jerry can of some sort for freshwater, but not been able to locate anything in any local stores.

[chuckster57]

My '97 Jayco had 3 but it's 36 ft and rear kitchen. I had two separate outlets and I'm lovin my Copper Canyon. Only 2 tanks and ONE outlet.

[audio1der]

Our black tank indicator started messing up halfway through our first season, but with religious cleaning, some bags of ice and lots of flushing seems to has remedied itself... for now.

When I reluctantly bought our 35 Gal blue buy (tote) for almost $250 last summer it was love/hate. After the 2nd trip I not only had my in-laws and brother in law asking to borrow it, but they toted my gray water away as thanks; consider it paid for itself

[Jager]

+1 what Javi said. The sensors suck. My camper is sitting in my garage with all tanks completely empty and the galley and gray are reading 2/3. Junk.

I don't know what the sensor technology is yet (I'm going to look into that) but there are 3 wires connected to the outside of the tank(s). Those three wires need to 1) be connected to the tank firmly and 2) need to be connected to the correct position on the tank to correctly report the level to the monitor. Here is a picture of what they look like.

On the right side of the photo you can see a yellow wire connected to the screw on the tank about a 1/3 of the way up the tank. You can see an orange and green wire also. They are the other 2 levels.

[Jager]

Well I found a posting on the web that does help explain the sensor system and why it doesn't work for beans. The first part of this posting explains 2 different systems used in RVs today. The first type is much more common and what is used on my Keystone Fuzion. I'm sure all Keystones will use this "grounded screw through the tank side wall" approach. In order for this method to work the tank would have to be 1) clean and 2) dry. Any path of conduction, wetness on side wall or crude will confuse the sensor. This explains why the system sucks. Again it amazes me that the industry doesn't do something better . . . after all these years they still use the same crappy, inaccurate system.

http://www.aboutrving.com/pdfs/TankMonitoring.pdf

FYI > > > In the second half of this note the poster talks about a different more accurate system. I don't know anything about it, how well it works, reliability or anything else. I'll probably look into it because I'd like to know better where I'm at in my tanks.

[Jager]

Ok, so I have found 2 new / different systems that are very well rated for monitoring tank levels from outside the tank. I don't know if either one can be calibrated to match your specific tank or not. Since the gray and black tanks are not square or symmetrical the relative level of fluid in the tank will not really tell you the amount of capacity left, rather just the level in the tank.

https://tankedge.com/index.html

http://www.garnetinstruments.com/

[Festus2]

Tom -
If you do purchase this new system that will ensure accurate readings on your tanks, your continued membership on the forum will have to be reviewed. We can't have members whose tank monitors are correct! Besides, you would quickly become known as a rebel and outcast spurned by everyone on here whose camping life has been made miserable by having to guess how much "crud" is remaining in the infamous black tank.

If you value your forum membership, please reconsider installing this highly accurate monitoring system.

[JRTJH]

Tom,

To add one comment to what Festus2 has said:

"Do you really, REALLY want to be known as the only forum member who knows exactly how full of CRAP he really is?"

[geo]

Tom -

Don't listen to JRTJH or Festus2 . . . I love our SeeLevel Gauges and love knowing how full of crap I am!!!!

So, don't worry, you won't be the only member of the Forum who knows . . .

Ron

[hankpage]

I suspected that Ron was full of it all along!

[Javi]

So I guess that means y'all are the only two who give a "crap"

[Jager]

You guys are so funny. Love it.

On a serious note . . . I have to determine how much I put into this camper. My wife and I are considering selling everything and moving to a Newmar diesel pusher. There are so many things I want to change on this camper, battery compartment (change to slide out tray with door), charging system (get rid of junk inverter/changer), tank monitors, outside entertainment system, etc . . . Weighing the pros and cons of changing . . . On a side note, Newmar costing $500k has same monitor system that our campers have. Can you believe that!

[hankpage]

Originally Posted by Jager

. . . On a side note, Newmar costing $500k has same monitor system that our campers have. Can you believe that!

Tom, It does not surprise me at all ..... I can't see doing this mod unless you plan on keeping this trailer . On the other hand ... though costly, it would be good practice before doing the mod on a 500k MH.

[Jager]

The higher end Newmar's (like the Essex or King Air) have better quality stuff. Units are completely electric, they have slide out battery trays that will boggle your mind . . . a battery replacement in these units will run you $1,000 alone. Some of the septic and chassis stuff is better quality. But like you said, even in this price range it amazes me how cheaply they do some things.