Cross border warranty sham

avalanche trippin · 08-31-2013, 06:25 AM

Hello all just wanted to share and warn Canadian buyers of the warranty issue I have experienced.

Shopped a long time to find an Avalanche 341 TG for our family as this was our ideal layout to upgrade to. I went to my local dealers in Ontario and no one would or could order me one and if they would it was $ 25 000.00 CDN more then in Michigan and I had to drive five and half hours to see it versus 3 hrs to Michigan. So I decided to look into going the Michigan route. As part of my due diligence I contacted Keystone direct and made certain that getting our warranty work done in Canada would not be an issue. They were absolute in telling us that this was not an issue any Keystone authorized dealer could do it. What they failed to tell me is that the dealer has full authority to refuse to do it and Keystone will do nothing to help. Not impressed as my whole experience was fantastic until this point. I really wanted to recommend to all my Canadian friends to take the same route as I and buy U.S. because they are looking after consumer needs much better then the Canadian gouging dealerships; however, I am having second thoughts on this now.

Just a heads up to others.

Festus2 · 08-31-2013, 06:37 AM

Two things .....
First, an authorized Keystone dealer apparently is not compelled to do any warranty work on your RV if you did not buy it from them. They can simply refuse to do it or perform the work but put your work order down at the very bottom of the pile. This is not a new practice - it has been going on for some time.

We have heard this before from folks who have been refused warranty service from Keystone dealers.

Second, somewhere in here there is, I believe, a fairly recent post or thread about an apparent change in Keystone's policy in that they are now requiring an authorized Keystone dealership to perform warranty work on all of their products - regardless from where it was purchased. A letter or press release from Keystone??
I think this is correct but not absolutely positive.

Anyone remember such a change in Keystone's policy???

**JRTJH** · 08-31-2013, 06:46 AM

From what you described, it sounds like you've got a 5 hour trip to your Canadian dealer and a 3 hour trip to your US dealer. If so, it seems that it would be simpler and easier to return to the selling dealership anyway.

As for warranty work, many of us just repair simple things ourselves rather than spend the money and time to drag our RV to the dealership no matter how close it is to our home. For me, it's only 40 miles to the dealer, but by the time I hitch up, drag it up there, drop it off, wait for the repairs to be done and then go back to pick it up, I've spent much more time and effort "having them do it" than it would have been to simply fix it myself.

Even when it comes to some "relatively significant repairs, often it's easier to coordinate with the dealer to ship the parts to you and do the work yourself.

What kind of warranty issues are you having? Could it be handled without going to the dealer? You may want to explore your other options to see if there's a "better way." One of those options may be to use an independent RV repair service who will either bill Keystone or provide the work, you pay them and seek reimbursement from Keystone for the repairs after you've paid. Doing this would probably need to be coordinated with Keystone PRIOR to the work being performed.

In all fairness, it's not really a Keystone issue, rather it's a dealer (or group of dealers in Canada) who seem to be "blocking" buyers from purchasing in the US by refusing to help those customers after they purchase. Let's face it, they are as concerned with profits as any other business and at their annual RV Dealership Association meeting, they definitely discuss ways to help one another keep profits high. Most business associations do that to help their members, even if it's just a group from one area sitting around the coffee table discussing ways to help each other and themselves in turn.

Shame on the dealerships, not on Keystone.

**JRTJH** · 08-31-2013, 06:55 AM

The thread about dealerships providing service "regardless of where purchased" is in the new edition of the owner's manual.

Here's the thread where KanTC posted the change: http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/sho...light=warranty

BOU0146 · 12-22-2013, 02:11 PM

I purchased my Keystone Alpine at a western Canadian dealer only 40 mins. from home and not only got better price than crossing the border but am very thankful of having a local dealer available to solve a major issue with one of my slides. Keep in mind that an RV dealer as with your car and truck dealers do not get paid a full labour rate for warranty work so there is definitely no incentive to service a unit that they did not realize a profit on the sale. The American dealer can sell you a unit at near cost as he does not have to worry about honoring a warranty.

cjm · 12-22-2013, 02:24 PM

I bought in the states and just had warrantee work done in BC. No issues at all and both keystone and the local dealer were great!

Festus2 · 12-22-2013, 03:38 PM

It's all about the dealer and not so much where you purchased your RV -- locally, in the U.S. or in Canada. I don't think Keystone really cares where you bought it. If the dealer wants and values you as a customer, warranty work will happen. If he doesn't and turns you away, you'll have to look elsewhere. Keystone will simply approve or disapprove any repair or replacement submitted or recommended by the dealer.

fred1609 · 12-22-2013, 07:59 PM

Why not tell the servicing dealer that you've just moved back to the area and intend to use the dealership for your service outside of the warranty.....That has to be motivation to do the right thing.

theeyres · 12-22-2013, 08:03 PM

I don't know about a new policy that may force all dealers to fix any unit bought anywhere. But the issue is not a cross border issue, it is equally true between dealers within the states. I know that RV's are often poorly constructed and often have major issues once purchased and many dealers are tired of trying to fix major issues on an RV purchased elsewhere because of the poor reimbursement policy. So the dealer plays a key role in the purchase. Those who have a great dealer usually rave about the service.

You get what you pay for.

fred1609 · 12-22-2013, 08:18 PM

Poorly constructed? Which part? I get that there is no hardwood used in my rig and the carpet could be a better quality...but considering the last three years I have taken this house on wheels....rocked it down the road.....swayed it side to side for thousands of miles.......it has stood up remarkably well. I also accept that if I have a half a million dollars I can buy a space craft 5er......but I don't and this rig is perfect for the money I paid for it and have paid into it.....I had a boat in another life and that is an exceptional money pit.....love my cougar.

fla-gypsy · 12-22-2013, 08:34 PM

The warranty for your Keystone trailer like warranties for all RV makers is with the maker not the dealer. Any dealer selling any make can refuse to do warranty work. You need to contact Keystone directly and ask them for the nearest dealer that will work on your trailer. It has always been that way and has nothing to do with where you live.

jsmith948 · 12-23-2013, 06:47 AM

What a great thread - John, I am in agreement with your post and I believe you have shined the light of truth on this issue

. At the risk of sounding cynical, the more difficult it is to have warranty work done on your RV, the less likely you will be to take it to the dealer. We bought our 5er at the Pomona RV show from a dealer located 250 miles from our home. If I can do the work - I do. I know it is done right (at least to my liking) and I learn something more about our rig along the way. Having said that, I agree that a 'good' dealer, with an interest in earning/keeping your business, would WANT to service a unit regardless of where it was purchased. Okay - I'm done

zuley · 12-23-2013, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOU0146

I purchased my Keystone Alpine at a western Canadian dealer only 40 mins. from home and not only got better price than crossing the border but am very thankful of having a local dealer available to solve a major issue with one of my slides. Keep in mind that an RV dealer as with your car and truck dealers do not get paid a full labour rate for warranty work so there is definitely no incentive to service a unit that they did not realize a profit on the sale. The American dealer can sell you a unit at near cost as he does not have to worry about honoring a warranty.

Having been employed by a Chrysler dealer for the past 30 years I can say we realize greater profit doing warranty work than we do with CP (customer pay). However, with the improvements made over the past few years in our product warranty is down 60 percent.

**JRTJH** · 12-23-2013, 07:41 AM

Zuley,

I would think warranty work for all automobile manufacturers is down significantly from in the past. I well remember a PU truck I bought new in 1972. The steel headliner fell down onto my head on the way home from picking it up and sitting in the service aisle waiting to get that fixed, when I tried to open the door, the inner door panel came off in my hand. A 1975 4WD SUV spent as much time in the shop as in my drive during the first year of ownership. I could go on and on (I'm thinking every one of us could), but the last few vehicles I've bought have been essentially trouble free. I don't remember taking my F150 to the dealer for any warranty work in almost 4 years of ownership and my F250 hasn't been back except for oil changes since I bought it.

Heck, even my Cougar has been pretty much "without problems" (knock on wood)... So I completely agree with you, manufacturers are doing a much better job of producing "quality products" than they did in "years gone by". It looks like the "Service Department" is finally becoming just that and is no longer the "Warranty Department" That's a great thing, IMHO.

airforceret · 12-23-2013, 09:45 AM

The unspoken truth around here is pretty much " you didn't buy it here, don't expect to bring it here for warranty work! " So mine is going back to the dealer 2 hours away where I bought it as NONE of the authorized Keystone warranty facilities and/or dealers here local will even return my call about warranty work!

**JRTJH** · 12-23-2013, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airforceret

The unspoken truth around here is pretty much " you didn't buy it here, don't expect to bring it here for warranty work! " So mine is going back to the dealer 2 hours away where I bought it as NONE of the authorized Keystone warranty facilities and/or dealers here local will even return my call about warranty work!

Heck, the factory is only 30 minutes from you... I know they don't do warranty repairs there, but they should have a dealer network around the plant that would welcome your repairs. Have you given them a call?

theeyres · 12-23-2013, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airforceret

The unspoken truth around here is pretty much " you didn't buy it here, don't expect to bring it here for warranty work! " So mine is going back to the dealer 2 hours away where I bought it as NONE of the authorized Keystone warranty facilities and/or dealers here local will even return my call about warranty work!

Glad to hear you accept the way it is. I sometimes get tired of hearing from the whiners that buy cheap 300 miles away and then expect their local dealer to pick up the tap for the problems. Sort of like buying Chinese products and then complaining that they don't perform like the more expensive American products. You can't have it both ways--cheap and quality.

airforceret · 12-24-2013, 06:31 AM

John,

You are correct in that I'm about 30 miles from the factory. I even know a couple of the guys that work in the factory. I'm even closer to Great Lakes RV, but they wouldn't even return my call on my last warranty issue. There are no less than 3 factory authorized keystone repair shops in the area, and only 1 of them was somewhat interested in doing my warranty work, but only on his schedule which didn't work out for me. This guy only worked a few hours a day and we played phone tag for over a week!

airforceret · 12-24-2013, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theeyres

Glad to hear you accept the way it is. I sometimes get tired of hearing from the whiners that buy cheap 300 miles away and then expect their local dealer to pick up the tap for the problems. Sort of like buying Chinese products and then complaining that they don't perform like the more expensive American products. You can't have it both ways--cheap and quality.

Actually this wasn't like buying a cheap chinese product as I bought the same identical camper for $15,000 less than the local dealer. Even at $1.50 per travel mile to and from the other dealer, I can make a lot of trips and still be money ahead.

As for getting it serviced by the local dealer that was my way of giving them "an opportunity" to earn my business since my "sales experience" with them didn't get off to a good start (which ultimately led me to purchase the same product elsewhere).

Dealers are reimbursed for warranty work so it's not like they are doing it for free... and since they are selling the brand, their lack of interest in supporting the brand is detrimental to the long term stability of the brand in the market place.

As mentioned earlier, I live in what "used to be" the RV capital. I've seen some big names come and go here... manufacturers as well as dealers. Without service after the sale, the brand is doomed... the better dealers understand that!!!

billb800si · 12-24-2013, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theeyres

Glad to hear you accept the way it is. I sometimes get tired of hearing from the whiners that buy cheap 300 miles away and then expect their local dealer to pick up the tap for the problems. Sort of like buying Chinese products and then complaining that they don't perform like the more expensive American products. You can't have it both ways--cheap and quality.

-----------------------
Earl, your logic makes no sense. We're comparing the same product from different dealers. This negotiating has been going on since there's been auto dealers. All the dealers make the same off of warranty work. If a dealer ever mentioned that they would refuse warranty work they would never see my business.
Keystone is one of the biggest RV manufacturers around (the biggest in 5th Wheelers) and they can put plenty of pressure on uncooperative dealers.

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