warranty problems, lack of support

[pramey9876]

Have owned a new 2013 Cougar 333 MKS for 8 weeks now, this is my experience so far:
Selling dealer told me ANY Keystone dealer would service my R/V and during the walk thru for delivery the slides did not work, and a decal was damaged. After about a half hour the tech got the slides to work and said it was a loose battery connection. Dealership said they would order a new decal.
Went for a 3500 mile trip and discovered the following: 1) the slides worked intermittently on 50 amp service 2) a hex head bolt is coming up thru the kitchen floor 3) the shower door track was not chaulked at the factory and discovered when exiting the shower due to all the water on the floor, sides were chaulked but not the bottom 4) dinette table was cracking down the middle. After delivery I discovered the pendent lights above the kitchen island were different colors, 2 were brown and 1 was pink.
On my return home I called the nearest Keystone dealer to get warranty work done and was told they were not interested in doing the work since I did not buy the unit from them. Said Keystones reimbursement rate was lower than they could charge non-warranty work and they were plenty busy. Called another dealer and got the same response. I sent an email to Keystone customer service listing the above and requesting help. I immediately received a return email stating someone would call me with the next 48 hours. After 7 days passed and I had not heard from Keystone I wrote a letter to the CEO of Thor/Keystone listing the above. To this date I have not had a call or received a letter addressing my concerns. After 10 days I called Keystone customer service and asked who was supposed to handle these issues and was given the name of the person who was supposed to call me back but never did. I asked to talk with him directly and he was nothing more than excusing it away.
Now for the "good" part. The dealer who is working on my unit contacted me and said they could not duplicate the slide problems on the control panel and my charge for the diagnostic was $80. They want to cut out the flooring, screw the bolt back into the floor and glue a new piece of flooring in place? Keystone refuses to replace the 3rd mismatched pendent light saying that was usual. They are going to replace the broken table, how fortunate am I?
I called Keystone to place them on notice the slides were working on and off and since the dealership could not duplicate the issue when they had it, that if I had to bring it back in again because the slides were not working, I expected to be reimbursed for the diagnostic charges. Keystone techs called the dealership and said the problem was probably in the brains in the front compartment. The dealership looked at it and could not find anything there either, but I was charged another $90 for that time. $170 total for the dealership to tell me they could not find the problem.
I found Keystone does not put padding under the carpet on the stairs going up to the front bedroom and bathroom. So I thought I would do that myself and asked Keystone how I could buy enough matching carpet from them to do that work? Their response was "the supplier was out of the carpet in my unit and they had none is stock, but thank you for your contact in this matter". This obviously means they cannot replace the carpet if a warranty issue comes up. The very least they could have done is suggest an alternative.
Still no replacement decal from the selling dealer.
Final conclusion: my experience tells me Keystone dealers will tell you anything to sell the unit. The Keystone company will do just about anything to get out of backing the quality of their units after the sale. The replacement table is taking about 4 weeks to receive after the dealer requested it, a little lengthy in my opinion. Just as a matter of inquiry, the dealership labor rate is $129 per hour??????? REALLY!
I simply will not ever buy another Thor/Keystone product as the "after the fact" service is terrible. They got my money and I'm at their mercy, I don't think so.
I hate writing the above but BUYER BEWARE in my opinion.

[cmssorrell]

The dealer I brought my Keystone Avalanche off of quit selling Keystone products. They claim it took approx. 6 months or more to get there money for warranty work.

Mark

[jsmith948]

To the OP - sorry you are unhappy. There probably isn't anything any of us can suggest that will lessen your frustration. However, on the subject of labor rates, my sister has a Monaco class A. She just had it in for service. Her dealer charges $125 per hr. Must be the going rate?
Good luck with your issues.

[Bob Landry]

That labor rate is not out of line IF they fix your problem. I'm a sole proprietor and run a marine service business and my rate is $95/hr and I do everything onsite, no shop overhead or employees. The dealerships and marina shops are $115-125/hr, plus lake charges for travel, etc. It costs a lot to fix toys.
What I don't understand is Keystone not paying the dealer's labor rate for warranty work. The manufacturers I represent pay the shop rate that is prevalent in the area.

[pramey9876]

I appreciate the responses. Our local car dealers charge $100 to $115 per our for labor and FIX the problems. I'm just going to video the slide problem the next time it happens, along with the electrical hookups and witness' and FORCE Keystone to pay for it, even if it takes a law suit. Service work after you purchase a $60,000 vehicle is a must.

[mwhit]

I had a problem with a 32" Sansui TV installed in a new Fuzion 300. It worked well for about 2 weeks. Went to turn on and no picture, red power indicator light was on, flickered when remote was pressed but did not turn green and no picture. Same condition when using the TV's power button, red flicker but no green light and no picture. Had a good 120V on the power line. Did a internet search and found this is a common problem with Sansui TV's and most likely problem was bad capacitors on the power board. Contacted my selling dealer, they contacted Keystone and a replacement TV was authorized. I had the option of allowing selling dealer to order a replacement TV and install being out no money other than the time and expense of delivering the trailer to them and picking it up, a 80 mile round trip. Or I could choose my own replacement install and return the defective TV to dealer. They in turn would return to Keystone. I was given a $550 max on the replacement cost and would need to wait until the money was sent from Keystone to the dealer and the dealer to me. I choose option 2 and installed a Samsung TV I paid $479 for, I returned the defective TV to my selling dealer on Good Friday and have been waiting for my money since then. I get a call today my defective TV was returned to Sansui and is now back at the selling dealer now working. They are now not going to reimburse for the TV they previously authorized. I do troubleshooting as my job, I am quite sure the TV would not power up, I am betting Sansui replaced the defective capacitors, so that's all well and good if they did not say get another TV. I don't want or need an extra TV for the Fuzion, I already have a 46" to use outside and in the garage. Keystone is going to be hearing from me after our camping trip that will begin shortly. I am ticked off right now, but will be better soon. Have a great Holiday weekend everyone.

[fla-gypsy]

You will find this scenario is not uncommon with a lot of brands. It is also possible your dealer is completely incompetent and the selling dealer was dishonest with you. They know that providing warranty service is NOT a requirement to sell any RV product. Good dealers provide warranty service to create repeat sales customers and hopefully to get some non warranty (profitable) work down the road. RV makers pay warranty work at their designated (below market value) rate and costs the dealers money in lost revenue. A good dealer can work wonders with an RV maker to get things corrected and quickly.

[dankent]

Start a class action .. you wont stand alone .. I have found their warrenty service to be the worst i have ever had the displeasure of dealing with as well, on that note, everything that i have had a problem dealing with did get fixed, just took multiple trips and arguements to get done. I would imagine a big part of this is the Selling dealers faults as well, why bother selling the headache and just drop the whole lineup of keystone products until they improve their warrenty payout/process.

But it is what it is .. i fix my own stuff now if i can and move on, but they will not get another cent from me and i still have at least a couple fifth wheels to buy before i retire and hang up my hat.

[pramey9876]

After two lengthy letters to the CEO of Thor/Keystone, and a copy of the warranty blogs on this site, I finally received a phone call from the Customer Service Supervisor at Keystone. They have agreed to reimburse me for the money the dealer charged me to tell me my slides worked fine, when they do not. I sent a video of the problems to Keystone to prove the problems to them. A customer service advisor called me to tell me the are aware of touch panel problems and hope to have a solution in the near future.
Keystone has finally stepped up to take care of multiple problems with my unit and I'm getting good service for the time being. Keystone assures me they will resolve all issues to my satisfaction. I'm not taking my 5th wheel back to the dealership until the end of the camping season. I'll give you an update when the work is done.
A squeaky wheel gets the grease?

[fla-gypsy]

It is good to hear you are finally getting the support you need. As you have discovered not all dealerships/RV techs are created equal

[Bob Landry]

I've read several threads on poor Customer Service from Keystone and it does seem to be the norm rather than the exception. One thing that I have not seen mentioned relating to contacting Keystone is the use of Certified Mail. A Certified Letter is one thing that gets everyone's attention and gets them to understand that the sender is serious about a response or a solution. It also leaves a paper trail. Someone has to sign for it and it doesn't matter who. A signature indicates a receipt. A company refusing to sign for it is as good as a delivery. You have the unopened letter returned to you. Keep it. We have all grown accustomed to sending emails because it's fast and free, but in many cases, ineffective. It's all to easy to click the delete button and all of their issues go away. One can easily claim it was never received. The same goes for the receptionist that tells you that so-and-so is in a meeting but she will give him a message to call you. Those conveniently get lost more frequently than they get delivered.
Problems with a dealer should also be conveyed the same way. If I were a manufacturer and a dealer was mis-representing my product, or alienating my customers, I would want to know. I have to think that there are managers at Keystone who would really like to keep customers but that things like this get intercepted at a lower level and never make it to the appropriate person that could actually fix your problem. So much for my customer service rant.

[michael]

We print all Emails sent and received and records of cell phone calls made.
And that is put in our little Rv file folder.

[billb800si]

This illustrates the importance of buying from a good dealer. You buy a brand new car and the dealer does NOT warranty it. The auto manufacturer does, not the dealer.
Yesterday I had exceptional dealer service from General RV in Wixom, Michigan. They had me in and out with in 45 minutes and that's without an appointment.
Cheapest price is not the deciding factor when buying. Look the whole picture over and do the research folks.
I'm glad to see the OP has finally received proper service and hope all his warranty issues are taken care of.
Happy trails,
Bill B. (Michigan)
2014 Cougar HC 321RES

[JRTJH]

So true, SO TRUE !!!

I see posts on a regular basis from members who are angry at Keystone because their RV was delivered with a problem. Some posters even go so far as to say that Keystone is "inferior" and doesn't care about quality or customers when the actual problem is a dealer who dismisses the customer's problem by blaming it on Keystone.

Take for example, the member who complained that Keystone didn't hook up his kitchen sink cold water line to the faucet. Sure, Keystone failed to hook it up, but for the dealer to claim that it's Keystone's problem when the dealer also stated that they checked the RV out to make sure it was functional before delivery? How?

Or how about the slide that won't close and you can see daylight through the slide seals? Sure Keystone may have installed it improperly, but did the dealer actually look at the RV during that PDI? If so, how was this missed?

I've said in many posts that the dealer is the key to a happy customer. If the dealer doesn't return your calls, won't schedule a repair, blames Keystone for "stonewalling" a warranty claim, or saying Keystone won't approve a repair, often it's because Keystone is completely unaware of the problem. And when the customer calls Keystone, they don't know anything about the issue, so the CS tells the customer to contact their dealer, and the "run-around" starts.....

Finding a good dealer is not that hard to do, but unfortunately finding an incompetent dealer or one who simply is in it for the quick bucks at the sale is far too common.

When you find a good one, keep him on your radar for future purchases. It might cost a few bucks extra, but in the long run, being able to talk to the service tech and having them suggest you drop by today so we can fix your RV are really priceless advantages in today's RV world.

[440justin]

I could not agree with John any more. Over the winter I purchased a new Passport 23rb. I shopped around the price on the unit and found a dealer very close to the Keystone assembly plant that was about $1,000 less than my local dealer. Now I factored in the fees they wanted to charge for batteries and propane (my dealer includes that in the purchase price) and my time and gas to drive 4 1/2 hours the price came down to about $300 difference. I told my sales man I was not going to beat him up over that as I know his transportation cost was the difference I was seeing. He said "I hope you will find our service will make it worth it" and so far they have! If any of you saw my post about the two small nicks in my slide out roof the dealer no only didn't try to blame me for it, but they presented me with two options to fix it. One to patch the roof and give me a $250 credit for future service or parts or second to replace the whole roof but it would take 4-6 weeks for the part. I could not be more happy with the service, they didn't try to push me on way or another on the work, I chose option 1 on my own, not so much for the money but for the fact I didn't like the idea of having to pull the slide out out of the trailer to make the repair.

Glad the OP is getting things worked out, but it is a shame his dealer didn't do more of the work for him.

Also Keystone is not the only brand with quality issues. One of my friends bought a Winnebago Ultra Lite the same weekend we bought our Passport and he has had issues with the furnace, tank level sensors, and general fit and finish on the trailer.

[robo]

Demand reimbursement for the poi factor time away from coach even at 10/hr and fuel for travel a 5er not cheap to tow

[billb800si]

Originally Posted by robo

Demand reimbursement for the poi factor time away from coach even at 10/hr and fuel for travel a 5er not cheap to tow

============================

Funny you should mention reimbursement. When we arrived home with our new 2014 Cougar I then found out the keys wouldn't work in the locks. I called General RV (in Birch Run, Michigan). Their Sales Mgr. said to come back and they would fix/replace it. I told him it was over 80 miles to his location. He offered to pay me the diesel fuel cost ($64 round trip). I said look, I can drive to your other office (Wixom, Michigan) and we can just switch out handle/lock in their parking lot. He called the Wixom office and arranged everything. I stopped in and the handle/lock was replaced with new and was on my way.
Again great service by General RV.
Happy trails,
Bill B. (Michigan)
2014 Cougar HC 321RES

[Bob Landry]

Originally Posted by robo

Demand reimbursement for the poi factor time away from coach even at 10/hr and fuel for travel a 5er not cheap to tow

Yep, if I had a customer that came in banging on my desk and demanding something, that would really make me want to help him.

[Roberson4]

Reading all this reminds me of our experience with our first new camper. It was a Fleetwood. I swor off Fleetwoods and will never buy another one. We have owned 2 new Keystones and have not had problems. Sorry for all your troubles.

[pramey9876]

Here is the update to the problems I've encountered above. I had a nice call from the customer service supervisor wherein we agreed he would reimburse me the $170 I had to pay for the diagnosis on the panel. That was 4 weeks ago and now I've sent 3 emails and left 2 messages trying to find out about the reimbursement, NOTHING, NADA, ZILCH. HAVE HEARD NOTHING.
Also, the bottom two rows on my panel were not working now its the bottom 4 rows not working.
Keystones voicemail says to contact them via the Internet but they seem to think differently as they do not respond.
I'm thinking a lawyer is my next move.