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03-21-2020, 05:49 PM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Moscow, ID
Posts: 94
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Replace Norcold 1210 with Residential Refrigerator
Our 2015 Norcold 1210 4-door fridge either pulls 27 amps DC or a lot of propane. We’re considering a JC Refrigeration HVAC 12v cooling unit replacement, gas/electric hybrid or helium unit vs. replacing the entire fridge with a residential unit.
Our goal is to conserve energy. We’re ok with losing the propane connection as we’ve got 1000ah of LiFePO4 and lots of solar.
If you think replacing the fridge with a residential is the way to go, can you recommend a reputable model that would fit? Moda & Cherry
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03-21-2020, 09:09 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: grand rapids
Posts: 596
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I just don't believe that a 1210 pulls 27 amps, no way, sorry. Something isn't right here. Even a 4 ton A/C unit pulls at most 29 amps.
12V/DC 120V/AC
3.8 1.9
Amp Draw – 1210IM & 1210IMSS 12V/DC 120V/AC
5.3 3.5
Here is a place that replaces your internal stuff.... https://www.rvcool.com/
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03-21-2020, 10:06 PM
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#3
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Moscow, ID
Posts: 94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roscommon48
I just don't believe that a 1210 pulls 27 amps, no way, sorry. Something isn't right here. Even a 4 ton A/C unit pulls at most 29 amps.
12V/DC 120V/AC
3.8 1.9
Amp Draw – 1210IM & 1210IMSS 12V/DC 120V/AC
5.3 3.5
Here is a place that replaces your internal stuff.... https://www.rvcool.com/
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Thanks. There's definitely something not right about the readings we're getting.
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03-23-2020, 01:13 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Box Elder
Posts: 2,910
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Are you measuring the DC amps that are being inverted to 120 volts AC? If you are, then that might be correct. If you are running the fridge on gas and those are the DC amps, then yes, something is wrong with those numbers.
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03-23-2020, 05:05 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Dade City
Posts: 1,039
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If you are installing a residential Refrigerator chose it wisely. Size it to go through the door. A friend has a 2015 Newmar motor home with a not repairable residential refrigerator. His local Newmar dealer has to remove the windshield to exchange the unit.
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03-23-2020, 07:22 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: grand rapids
Posts: 596
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i'd just get the 1210 fixed....keep the trailer as regular as possible for future trade in.
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03-25-2020, 05:41 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Hartford AL
Posts: 439
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On the motorhome side of things many who replace the NC 1200 series go to a Samsung that's 18 cu ft. Very close in size requiring minimal cabinetry work. I researched briefly a couple years ago but decided to stay with the absorption type since we occasionally boon dock and didn't want the expense of solar or lithium.
As said above, size does matter so what ever you choose, make sure it fit's in. Can get very expensive or messy removing windows if you even have any big enough. Adding a sig line with your RV will help get better answers.
__________________
2021 Omni SX32
2012 Crusader 355BHQ (girl friends)
2020 Ram 1500 Laramie 4WD, toad
2019 Harley Davidson Heritage Classic 114 (the toy)
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05-21-2023, 07:12 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Mesa
Posts: 176
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I know. Old thread.
Absorption fridges consume somewhere around 325W (depending on their rating) when using either 12VDC or 120VAC power.
325W / 12V = 27.1A
325W / 120V = 2.71A
Absorption fridges use about 5X the electrical energy of a quality compressor fridge for a given volume, AND you get more storage in a compressor fridge. A small 7.6cu-ft absorption fridge can be replaced by a compressor fridge that holds about 10 cu-ft in the same exterior volume.
The cooling unit occupies a lot of space.
The 7.6cu-ft fridge will use almost 5kWh/day where the compressor fridge will use almost 1kWh/day.
__________________
2007 Montana Big Sky
Solar on your rig? 1) PV determines how much energy you can use per day, 2) Battery determines how long you can go between charging.
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05-21-2023, 08:08 AM
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#9
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snoobler
I know. Old thread.
Absorption fridges consume somewhere around 325W (depending on their rating) when using either 12VDC or 120VAC power.
325W / 12V = 27.1A
325W / 120V = 2.71A
Absorption fridges use about 5X the electrical energy of a quality compressor fridge for a given volume, AND you get more storage in a compressor fridge. A small 7.6cu-ft absorption fridge can be replaced by a compressor fridge that holds about 10 cu-ft in the same exterior volume.
The cooling unit occupies a lot of space.
The 7.6cu-ft fridge will use almost 5kWh/day where the compressor fridge will use almost 1kWh/day.
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Methinks you're leaving out the propane side of absorption refrigeration. You are correct, when running a "gas/electric refrigerator" on "electric" it uses 325 watts for electric operation (on a 2 way refrigerator, that's ALWAYS 120 VAC because it uses shore power at about 2.7 Amps... If you use a inverter to power the refrigerator on electric, then the refrigerator would use 325 watts@12 VDC, but who would do that when propane uses less than 30 watts of battery power ?????
So, comparing apples to apples (rather than apples to oranges) a typical gas/electric 2 way absorption refrigerator, when dry camping and running on propane only uses about 2 amps of battery power and nearly all of that is consumed by the "door seal heater" not by the actual electronics/refrigeration components.
When compared to a compressor refrigerator of similar size, the absorption refrigeration system "substitutes propane for electricity" and is SIGNIFICANTLY more battery saving than any compressor refrigerator of similar size.
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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05-21-2023, 08:19 AM
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#10
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Site Team
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,353
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If memory serves me right the Norcold1228 has fans mounted INSIDE the fridge for more efficient cooling and I know for a fact that if you have a single GP 24 battery it will kill it overnight. BTDT
As a test we left a new Fifthwheel plugged in all day and the fridge on AC to cool, Left at 5PM with the fridge on LP and unplugged from shore power. It was no longer operating at 8AM the next day. Temp was set on 4 IIRC.
__________________
2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.
Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
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05-21-2023, 12:03 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Mesa
Posts: 176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH
Methinks you're leaving out the propane side of absorption refrigeration. You are correct, when running a "gas/electric refrigerator" on "electric" it uses 325 watts for electric operation (on a 2 way refrigerator, that's ALWAYS 120 VAC because it uses shore power at about 2.7 Amps... If you use a inverter to power the refrigerator on electric, then the refrigerator would use 325 watts@12 VDC, but who would do that when propane uses less than 30 watts of battery power ?????
So, comparing apples to apples (rather than apples to oranges) a typical gas/electric 2 way absorption refrigerator, when dry camping and running on propane only uses about 2 amps of battery power and nearly all of that is consumed by the "door seal heater" not by the actual electronics/refrigeration components.
When compared to a compressor refrigerator of similar size, the absorption refrigeration system "substitutes propane for electricity" and is SIGNIFICANTLY more battery saving than any compressor refrigerator of similar size.
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For me, energy is energy - apples to apples.
This was in the context of the OP indicating:
Our goal is to conserve energy. We’re ok with losing the propane connection as we’ve got 1000ah of LiFePO4 and lots of solar.
"battery saving" was not the goal.
On propane, the fridge still uses a large amount of energy. A 30# bottle of propane has about 160kWh of usable energy. Assuming ~90% efficiency, that's 144kWh. At about 5kWh/day of consumption, that's about 29 days of operation. In my experience, it's closer to 3 weeks on a single bottle.
Ultimately, it doesn't matter where the heat energy comes from. It's about 5kWh/day (mild ambient conditions). If your goal is to conserve electrical energy and not use propane, then a compressor fridge is the only choice.
OP has 1,000Ah @ 12.8V, or 12800Wh of energy. That's nearly 13 days of operation of a ~10cu-ft compressor fridge. Knock a day off for inverter inefficiencies. 300W of good solar can more than offset that daily. I think, "lots of solar," is probably more than 300W.
I'm not just guessing. I'm been powering two RVs for 2+ years with off-grid "shore power" consisting of 10kW of 120/240VAC split phase power, 3000W of solar and 23.3kWh of DIY Lithium batteries from Plug-in Hybrids in a 40' shipping container. The 50A "shore" pedestal is split to provide one leg to each trailer. I've powered both fridges purely from AC, and it's quite costly.
I've attached a picture of the "ranch" and a chart showing the AC cycling on and off. 3/5/2023 - 25°F low and 41°F high temp for that day. On that day, in those cold ambient conditions (fridge hadn't been opened for 2+ months), it used 3.8kWh.
FWIW, I can confirm with 100% certainty that the propane follows an almost identical cycling pattern because I could see the ~2W bump when the propane valve would open.
ANYWAY, I find myself in this same predicament now that the fridges in both trailers have failed, so that's why I'm poking around the issue. I'm undecided on which way to go. I vastly prefer the efficiency of the compressor fridge, but I don't plan to have these forever, and they would definitely need battery and PV upgrades for boondocking for the next owner. Plus, the cost of new cooling units isn't as high as I thought it was - about half that of a new compressor fridge... I'm torn. PLUS, I have 2X the solar and 2X the battery waiting in the wings as this system will power an eventual permanent dwelling.
Stupid first world problems...
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckster57
If memory serves me right the Norcold1228 has fans mounted INSIDE the fridge for more efficient cooling and I know for a fact that if you have a single GP 24 battery it will kill it overnight. BTDT
As a test we left a new Fifthwheel plugged in all day and the fridge on AC to cool, Left at 5PM with the fridge on LP and unplugged from shore power. It was no longer operating at 8AM the next day. Temp was set on 4 IIRC.
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Yeah. A GP 24 battery has somewhere around 80Ah, so that's only good for about 2-3 hours of full power operation. If it's already at temp and maintaining, then you might get 3-6 hours. Back when I was a n00b, I obliterated my 2X 12V 200Ah BlueRivers in series overnight.
I don't follow the point in your second paragraph.
__________________
2007 Montana Big Sky
Solar on your rig? 1) PV determines how much energy you can use per day, 2) Battery determines how long you can go between charging.
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05-29-2023, 03:01 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Mesa
Posts: 176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snoobler
ANYWAY, I find myself in this same predicament now that the fridges in both trailers have failed, so that's why I'm poking around the issue. I'm undecided on which way to go. I vastly prefer the efficiency of the compressor fridge, but I don't plan to have these forever, and they would definitely need battery and PV upgrades for boondocking for the next owner. Plus, the cost of new cooling units isn't as high as I thought it was - about half that of a new compressor fridge... I'm torn. PLUS, I have 2X the solar and 2X the battery waiting in the wings as this system will power an eventual permanent dwelling.
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I have found that due to the extremely limited cabinet area of the slideout, the interference with the "L" countertop/cabinet, and the space demanded by the propane line and and electrical box, I have zero realistic options of a comparably sized fridge. The only options I have found are some "Hamilton Beach" models made by Curtis that feel pretty sketchy. Even with that one, there's essentially zero clearance for efficient operation.
So we've decided to "downgrade" to a 10.1 cu-ft Magic Chef HMDR1000BE.
Dimensions (cabinet space in parenthesis): H 59.5 in (63"), W 23.7 in (32.5"), D 26.2 in (26.5" max due to slide out)
We'll configure the ~8-9" of unused width for storage, and with the additional clearance area around the unit, efficiency should have a chance of getting near the claims 0.8kWh/day.
Turns out the fridge fits in the same cabinet in the other 5th wheel that had a cooling unit fail... ordered one for each...
$901 for two fridges total vs. ~$1500 for the cooling unit for the Norcold and still having a busted Dometic in the other trailer.
A little disappointed in the inability to upgrade to a larger fridge volume, but definitely going to call this one a big win.
__________________
2007 Montana Big Sky
Solar on your rig? 1) PV determines how much energy you can use per day, 2) Battery determines how long you can go between charging.
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