Fuzion 403 underbelly work

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by rjsurfer

Would sheet foam have enough rigidity to support itself across the frame of my Cougar?

Obviously the Coroplast can, but certainly droops a bit.

I was thinking of using sections of sheet foam instead of the Coroplast, this way if I need to do work under the camper I would just drop the section needed to gain access. I guess I could use some external cross members if needed.

Thanks

Ron W.

Foam board does not have the strength to screw the ends into the frame rails like the coroplast. It will not support itself unless there is some structural component under it to keep it in place. I installed 3/4" and 1" foam board in my Springdale, then covered the entire belly with coroplast. We towed well over 3,000 miles like that and never had any issue. I would not suggest towing anywhere if you rely on the foam board to support itself. It isn't strong enough to stay in place without a covering to support it.

[rjsurfer]

Thanks guys, what you both make some good points about the sagging problem with using just board type insulation.

Obviously external bracing, and keeping the Coroplast is the way to go.

Ron W.

[sbmarks3]

Closing up the belly. This is a lot harder than it looks. Installed R13 rolled fiberglass on the ceiling of the basement, Installed 1/2" hard board foam above the coroplast supported on the flanges of the frame beam. Where I had clearance to do so I glued a second layer of foam board to the first. Three separate heat tape circuits in place, one for the black, one for the water lines and the third covers one grey tank, grey line to the valve and both fresh water tanks. Putting coroplast back in place in this cold weather is not easy but nearly done. The heat tape circuits all terminate in the upper utility area where they will have their own 20amp breaker. I am also installing a can light in the storage area that will be thermostat controlled, 60 watt bulb for heat in the cargo side, the can side is in the utility area where it will provide some heat, but I may install a light fixture for that side as well. I am sore and tired of being under that trailer, especially climbing between the top of the axels and the bottom of the trailer.
Stay warm out there.

[FullTimer]

Nice job! You'll love the extra insulation. Yup, I was sore too lol. Two things I have noticed about mine already, less cycling of the heat and a whole lot less outside noise. Money well spent!

[sbmarks3]

While working on the under belly I did some repair and modifications to the spare tire rack which is under the trailer. The spare is lifted in place with a cable on a spool like on a pickup truck. A previous owner over tightened this cable and bent the metal bracket. I removed and repaired with some flat bar and some welding, I also extended the carrier so that it would reach the trailer frame. The trailer has two light weight pieces of box tubing welded to the inside of the frame, that is what the carrier screwed into.
I never trusted that little cable so I added a couple long carriage bolts welded to a piece of flat bar, the bolts extend down though the spare tires bolt holes and then are double nutted. I used to wrap a motorcycle tie down strap around it as a secondary safety.

[HurtinAlbertan]

Originally Posted by sbmarks3

Some notes on lessons learned in the underbelly:
1. 3M spray adhesive does not bond well enough to hold up heat tape.
2. 3M spray adheres to glasses and hair very well.
3. Great Stuff spray foam does not apply very well in the overhead position.
4. Great Stuff spillage always lands on you.
5. An empty and clean black water tank with the valve removed is neither empty nor clean when you push up on the bottom of the tank.
6. Never position your body under the removed valve area of a black water tank.

LOL. Poor, poor you. I'm laughing, but i sure can sympathize...

[Steve T]

Originally Posted by sbmarks3

Some notes on lessons learned in the underbelly:
1. 3M spray adhesive does not bond well enough to hold up heat tape.
2. 3M spray adheres to glasses and hair very well.
3. Great Stuff spray foam does not apply very well in the overhead position.
4. Great Stuff spillage always lands on you.
5. An empty and clean black water tank with the valve removed is neither empty nor clean when you push up on the bottom of the tank.
6. Never position your body under the removed valve area of a black water tank.

Thanks for the heads up. I will be replacing my grey and Black valves in the next week or two. I think my grey valve is leaking so I figured and hope they are close to each other. Might as well replace both since i'm already there. I removed the blocking behind the water inlet area yesterday and found the valves are on the other side of the rig but I could not see it. So now i have to remove the underbelly to get to them. Wish I could find a service manual for my 2009 Keystone Montana, 3465SA but all I ever see is the owners manual and it is no help at all doing anything.

[Poppy's 5th Wheel]

Originally Posted by Steve T

Thanks for the heads up. I will be replacing my grey and Black valves in the next week or two. I think my grey valve is leaking so I figured and hope they are close to each other. Might as well replace both since i'm already there. I removed the blocking behind the water inlet area yesterday and found the valves are on the other side of the rig but I could not see it. So now i have to remove the underbelly to get to them. Wish I could find a service manual for my 2009 Keystone Montana, 3465SA but all I ever see is the owners manual and it is no help at all doing anything.

Different trailers but some of these pictures may help. I just replaced my black tank (and the valve) and did some other work under the trailer. This link has all the pictures so many will not apply but it will at least give you an idea of what's going on under there. If your gray and black tanks are side-by-side, as mine were, you will find it a real PIA to replace the sliding valve mechanisms. Both tanks need to move to give room to take out the valve and put them back in. There isn't much flex in the system..

Good luck
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/blow...0tank%20repair

[Festus2]

I get a Photobucket error saying that the page does not exist when I clicked on the link in your post.

[Poppy's 5th Wheel]

Originally Posted by Festus2

I get a Photobucket error saying that the page does not exist when I clicked on the link in your post.

Should be working now.

[Jager]

Poppy, First, thanks for posting your photos. Big help for anyone who ever has to do this.

Next, do you know how or why your tank failed? It looks to have a pretty large crack in the corner of it. These tanks should last forever I would think. I really don't know how they'd ever wear out. Your camper doesn't appear to be that old either. I'm just not getting it . . . unless something hit it to cause the crack.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by Poppy's 5th Wheel

Should be working now.

Not working for me.

[Poppy's 5th Wheel]

Originally Posted by Jager

Poppy, First, thanks for posting your photos. Big help for anyone who ever has to do this.

Next, do you know how or why your tank failed? It looks to have a pretty large crack in the corner of it. These tanks should last forever I would think. I really don't know how they'd ever wear out. Your camper doesn't appear to be that old either. I'm just not getting it . . . unless something hit it to cause the crack.

I believe it must have been a manufacturer defect. Maybe a problem in the molding process? The trailer is 2 1/2 years old, bought it new. No way anything can make contact with it without leaving some kind of obvious indication on the coroplast and there was absolutely nothing

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Not working for me.

Sorry Chuckster, I tried again and it works for me. May be try copying the link into a new browser and go that way?

[JRTJH]

Poppy,

When you were disassembling the tank (s), did you encounter any "under tank straps" or bracing? From what I could envision at the factory, all of the newer trailers are being manufactured with tanks that sit inside the upper frame rails and are supported by the flange around the top of the tank. In other words, it appeared that they are "floating" in the underbelly space with nothing under them to support the weight of the tank.

Is this what you saw when working on your underbelly?

[Poppy's 5th Wheel]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Poppy,

When you were disassembling the tank (s), did you encounter any "under tank straps" or bracing? From what I could envision at the factory, all of the newer trailers are being manufactured with tanks that sit inside the upper frame rails and are supported by the flange around the top of the tank. In other words, it appeared that they are "floating" in the underbelly space with nothing under them to support the weight of the tank.

Is this what you saw when working on your underbelly?

Absolutely, there are cross supports on the fresh water tank but nothing under the black and gray tanks. The black and gray tanks have a "flange" around them (as you describe) that are about 1 - 1/2". Those flanges are resting on the I-Beam frame on one side and a support brace on the other side. I found the supports to be a little far away from the tank body so when I re-installed them, I actually drilled new holes and moved those supports a little closer to the tank bodies than the factory had them (both black and gray tanks). I honestly don't know if that will make any difference or if it had anything to do with the failure but ?

[Wes Tausend]

Originally Posted by Poppy's 5th Wheel

Different trailers but some of these pictures may help. I just replaced my black tank (and the valve) and did some other work under the trailer. This link has all the pictures so many will not apply but it will at least give you an idea of what's going on under there. If your gray and black tanks are side-by-side, as mine were, you will find it a real PIA to replace the sliding valve mechanisms. Both tanks need to move to give room to take out the valve and put them back in. There isn't much flex in the system..

Good luck
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/blow...0tank%20repair

Paul,

Thanks to you and sbmarks3 for the photos.

I found the same lack of flex in my sewer system. The slide valves were squeezed slightly to one side in the space between the gray & black tanks as you say. To solve the "tight-quarter problem" and make it easier to replace the valves in the future, I permanently sawed a 1-1/2" section out of the longer 4" drain from the black tank. The extra room allows the flat valve centers to drop out when unbolted now and I only replace that center wear part.

I replaced the missing pipe section with a common 4" rubber waste sleeve from my local hardware store. It fastens with ordinary aviation hose clamps which are included. They work well. After 20 years, my main house sewer still uses one where I replaced the in-house portion cast iron sanitary sewer outlet with PVC to add a couple more bathrooms, laundry and furnace room floor drains during a major remodel. The rubber house coupler resides just under the foundation where it connects the new PVC system to the old cast iron as it leaves the house. I also trust that the RV rubber coupler will not come loose in my RV from travel and it absorbs flex to help protect the tank.

I also added support straps under the black tank after the original flexing failure. I determined a main reason these tanks tend to fail... thin spots... and I describe an in-place repair procedure. I posted more about it on this Keystone.org thread here.

Wes
...

[jtyphoid]

+1 on the rubber coupler. I went that route due to tight quarters on my Raptor.