Towing with an overloaded truck

[sourdough]

Saw something yesterday and just thought I would share since we do have so many discussions about trucks, trailers and weights.

DW and I were out looking at properties in the outlying areas here in CO. Driving down a little rural blacktop I saw a 5th wheel and truck pulled over on the left side of the road. The truck bed was sagging very badly. I commented to my wife as we passed that there was an example of someone that towed way overweight. It was a newer F150.

On our return we were passing the same combo and my wife said "he has a flat". I stopped and backed up to look and sure enough the right rear tire was flat. I then looked at the blacktop and could see the black squiggly marks of a tire being run flat on the pavement.....it was from the left side! Got out and walked around and the left rear was ruined. I was going to take a picture but when I asked DW for her phone so I could she told me there was no way I was taking pictures of this guys misfortune and then spread it around on the internet!!

Anyway, it was about a 32-35' 5th wheel sitting on the F150 on OEM tires. Have no idea where they had been or what the tires had been subjected to but it was a severe example of what could happen when trying to tow a heavy trailer with an underequipped truck. Thankfully it was on a back road at a slow speed and not 65mph. Just wanted to pass that along as food for thought. I went back yesterday evening with MY phone so I could take a pic but it was gone.

[xrated]

He's probably at the nearest dealership right now, trading it in on something that is enough truck to haul that 5ver.

[rhagfo]

Without weight facts and pictures just another Internet story!
Keep in mind some F150 have about 1,200# payload, and others have near 3,000# yes the Max/Max F150 are rare,but out there.
The 5er make and model?? No information could be a 1/2 ton towable, might max out less than 10,000#.
Without the TV payload info and the 5er make and model just a TV with a flat tire.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Without weight facts and pictures just another Internet story!
Keep in mind some F150 have about 1,200# payload, and others have near 3,000# yes the Max/Max F150 are rare,but out there.
The 5er make and model?? No information could be a 1/2 ton towable, might max out less than 10,000#.
Without the TV payload info and the 5er make and model just a TV with a flat tire.

That's the reason I wanted to get the pic - .....for folks like you. It was a Rockwood 5vr. No, I wasn't going to poke around someone's trailer and try to pull the specs off the door. I wish my wife would have let me have her phone.

Just "another internet story?" I take offense to that since you are implying I'm lying; which I'm not. I don't need to sit around dreaming up things to put on this forum. I just thought it was interesting, and, I've never seen both tires blown on the back of a pickup towing a travel trailer of any kind just sitting there. I do understand the variables in various tow vehicles but SOMETHING caused both rear tires to fail on a flat, smooth pavement.

As I said in the original post, I put that out there as food for thought......for those that can think.

[SUnderwood]

if I remember right this is a cat 279 about 10,000 lbs

[drew999999]

Originally Posted by SUnderwood

if I remember right this is a cat 279 about 10,000 lbs

I had a Suburban Z71 similar to that. Loved the hell out of it for road trips but could hardly handle my 5000lb boat towing at 55. Pulling out of steep ramps at 4500 rpms was not fun. Couldn't imagine trying to handle a skid loader.


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[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by sourdough

That's the reason I wanted to get the pic - .....for folks like you. It was a Rockwood 5vr. No, I wasn't going to poke around someone's trailer and try to pull the specs off the door. I wish my wife would have let me have her phone.

Just "another internet story?" I take offense to that since you are implying I'm lying; which I'm not. I don't need to sit around dreaming up things to put on this forum. I just thought it was interesting, and, I've never seen both tires blown on the back of a pickup towing a travel trailer of any kind just sitting there. I do understand the variables in various tow vehicles but SOMETHING caused both rear tires to fail on a flat, smooth pavement.

As I said in the original post, I put that out there as food for thought......for those that can think.

Well looked at specs on Rockwood Ultralite 5ers, they have a couple 32' 5ers that come in just under 10,000# GVWR, dry pins in the 1,400# to 1,500# and low payloads so loaded pins pushing 2,000#.
They also have a 31' that has a GVWR of less than 9,000#, still a
1,400# pin so maybe 1,700# to 1,800# loaded.
The big issue with the newer F150 is that the GVWR is very close to the total of the axle ratings, making possable to be within GVWR, but over rear axle rating.

With the newer F150 an easy way to get an idea of GVWR, is the number of Lugs, 5 lugs Grocery getter, 6 lugs max tow, or for newest could also be Max/Max, 7 lugs max/Max before the AL body.
Sourdough, never accused you of lying, just a story with few facts, you got close enough to state OEM tires, but the Max/Max came with LT tires, did the TV have OEM "P" rated tires?
Maybe it just wasn't owners day! Bad stuff comes in waves!

[the sodfather]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Well looked at specs on Rockwood Ultralite 5ers, they have a couple 32' 5ers that come in just under 10,000# GVWR, dry pins in the 1,400# to 1,500# and low payloads so loaded pins pushing 2,000#.
They also have a 31' that has a GVWR of less than 9,000#, still a
1,400# pin so maybe 1,700# to 1,800# loaded.
The big issue with the newer F150 is that the GVWR is very close to the total of the axle ratings, making possable to be within GVWR, but over rear axle rating.

With the newer F150 an easy way to get an idea of GVWR, is the number of Lugs, 5 lugs Grocery getter, 6 lugs max tow, or for newest could also be Max/Max, 7 lugs max/Max before the AL body.
Sourdough, never accused you of lying, just a story with few facts, you got close enough to state OEM tires, but the Max/Max came with LT tires, did the TV have OEM "P" rated tires?
Maybe it just wasn't owners day! Bad stuff comes in waves!

"7" lugs on a max/max...I'm guessing that's a typo...

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by the sodfather

"7" lugs on a max/max...I'm guessing that's a typo...

No it isn't, the pre aluminum bodied F150 had a 4,800# GAWR on the rear and it had 7 lugs. This went away with the aluminum bodied Max/Max.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Well looked at specs on Rockwood Ultralite 5ers, they have a couple 32' 5ers that come in just under 10,000# GVWR, dry pins in the 1,400# to 1,500# and low payloads so loaded pins pushing 2,000#.
They also have a 31' that has a GVWR of less than 9,000#, still a
1,400# pin so maybe 1,700# to 1,800# loaded.
The big issue with the newer F150 is that the GVWR is very close to the total of the axle ratings, making possable to be within GVWR, but over rear axle rating.

With the newer F150 an easy way to get an idea of GVWR, is the number of Lugs, 5 lugs Grocery getter, 6 lugs max tow, or for newest could also be Max/Max, 7 lugs max/Max before the AL body.
Sourdough, never accused you of lying, just a story with few facts, you got close enough to state OEM tires, but the Max/Max came with LT tires, did the TV have OEM "P" rated tires?
Maybe it just wasn't owners day! Bad stuff comes in waves!

Didn't go to the trouble of pulling the Rockwood 5th wheel specs. Little brother has a new Rockwood Signature Ultra Lite that comes in right at 10k gvw. This one appeared to be as large as his. That would give it a 2k pin weight plus/minus. A lot for any 1/2 ton.

I did not poke around an unmanned truck/trailer because it's not right. I did look at the tires. I did not get down on the ground and try to read the sidewalls. There was a house about 75 yards up the hill looking straight at the road and I already felt uneasy getting out and nosing around the rig. I walked to the side, assessed that the tire was flat and had been damaged and just sort of looked over the combo walking back to the car.

My thought, when posting, and as food for thought, was that here is a 1/2 ton truck with a 5th wheel that has at least 2k on the pin. 2 tires are blown on the rear. What is the common denominator(s)? 1) high pin weight in the bed of a 1/2 ton truck and 2) probably P rated tires that come on nearly all 1/2 tons. A person can take what they want from that, pictures or not. It raises red flags to me and just reinforces the limitations of a 1/2 ton truck IMO.

[notanlines]

Danny, for the life of me I can't find anything to disagree with what you said. Now that makes three times in a row! But I will find fault in you not having nerve enough to crawl around and inspect the tires. Those of us in that age range should stick together and just say we lost our ......whatever comes to mind, and get up off our knees and go back to the truck.

[Bolo4u]

But, there was a safety chain attached.


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[rhagfo]

Interesting that the trailer and load stayed upright while the TV is on its side. Yep bad case of the tail wagging the dog.

[vampress_me]

Or there's the slightly different setup I saw "parked" on the side of the road today on the north side of Rochester when we headed to the campground. Toyota Tundra pulling an older steel gooseneck stock trailer that was about 22'- 24' long. Truck and trailer pulled over on the side of the road with the drive shaft not attached to the rear axle anymore. The truck was newer, but it still made our son and I wonder why someone would try pulling a stock trailer like that with a Tundra. And yes, I obviously don't know the backstory on weights, but I do own a 3 horse bumper pull steel trailer that weighs 4700 lbs empty, so I have an educated guess.

[Bolo4u]

I like the, I towed a 16000 trailer with an F350 with no issue. And now he wants to tow a heavier trailer with a lighter truck...

You may not want to be in front of him, but if you're behind him, you can be a good witness, although you could be stuck behind the pile-up for awhile.


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[xrated]

Just a thought......."We are not only surrounded by idiots, we may in fact, be outnumbered!"

[66joej]

Originally Posted by xrated

Just a thought......."We are not only surrounded by idiots, we may in fact, be outnumbered!"

Ain't that the truth!

[captcolour]

And then there is this gem:

"You're not paying attention and are ignoring the valid points about towing safety. Simply spouting off that being overweight makes a person dangerous is a stupid oversimplification of the realities of towing."

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by captcolour

And then there is this gem:

"You're not paying attention and are ignoring the valid points about towing safety. Simply spouting off that being overweight makes a person dangerous is a stupid oversimplification of the realities of towing."

So true, XRated example of sway as he didn't have enough tongue weigh as it would take him over GVWR, had he filled or partials fill his TH's FW tank he would have been over GVWR, but likely due to a more correctly loaded TH more stable.
While it is better to tow within GVWR, just because one exceeds it doesn't automatically make one unsafe. Conversely just because one is towing under GVWR doesn't automatically make one "Safe".

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

So true, XRated example of sway as he didn't have enough tongue weigh as it would take him over GVWR, had he filled or partials fill his TH's FW tank he would have been over GVWR, but likely due to a more correctly loaded TH more stable.
While it is better to tow within GVWR, just because one exceeds it doesn't automatically make one unsafe. Conversely just because one is towing under GVWR doesn't automatically make one "Safe".

rhagfo

You constantly advocate that folks SHOULD tow overweight. You, in your mind, have figured out a way to justify what you do; I don't know if you can't afford a proper vehicle or you just like to push the odds. Whatever it is, you should let folks that try to do the right thing....try to do it, without posting junk that could get folks hurt that don't know better.