Air lift system X vs Y

[RV Vacation]

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Air bags for F250 tow vehicle pulling a fifth wheel.

Firestone Red Label 7500 versus Airllft XL 7500 versus X brand 7500?


Also, considering the additional cost, would the on board control system (compressor/remote/etc.) be recommended versus inflating the bags using an air compressor?

[chuckster57]

I have used Airlft 5000 bags with on board air since about 1998.

[flybouy]

FWIW, from the specs I see online that's a 42' 17k gvw trailer. Pin weight of 17k @23% would be 3,o10 lbs. Add hitch and people and it would be well over 4k. You may want to consider more truck.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by flybouy

FWIW, from the specs I see online that's a 42' 17k gvw trailer. Pin weight of 17k @23% would be 3,o10 lbs. Add hitch and people and it would be well over 4k. You may want to consider more truck.

23% of 17000 is 3910 (not 3010) pounds.

Even at 20%, the pin weight would be around 3400 pounds. Add the weight of a Demco 21000 Auto (in his signature) has an approximate weight of 305 pounds without the capture plate or the Ford puck adapter kit (if the truck has the puck system installed).

So, I think we're looking closer to 3700 pounds before adding passengers or cargo to the truck payload... Adding the weight of an air bag/air lift kit with or without a compressor will just make the overload greater.

[chuckster57]

Aw, come on John. The airbags will only add about 37 pounds, surely that’s not enough to even think about.

(This is a sarcastic post).

[jsb5717]

I'm a fan of the AirLift 5000 bags with onboard compressor. It was a huge help on my last RAM 3500...which was overloaded with a smaller trailer...just sayin'.

I'm also a fan of enough truck. Whether 3700lbs or 3737lbs . Overloaded is still overloaded. Air bags feel better but don't change the truck's payload. Stay safe...

[RV Vacation]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

23% of 17000 is 3910 (not 3010) pounds.

Even at 20%, the pin weight would be around 3400 pounds. Add the weight of a Demco 21000 Auto (in his signature) has an approximate weight of 305 pounds without the capture plate or the Ford puck adapter kit (if the truck has the puck system installed).

So, I think we're looking closer to 3700 pounds before adding passengers or cargo to the truck payload... Adding the weight of an air bag/air lift kit with or without a compressor will just make the overload greater.

Who said anything about being overloaded?

Even if that were the case I would just plead "that's the industry standard and therefore it should be accepted". AmIrite?

[chuckster57]

Being overloaded isn’t “the industry standard” by ANY DEFINITION.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by RV Vacation

Who said anything about being overloaded?

Even if that were the case I would just plead "that's the industry standard and therefore it should be accepted". AmIrite?

I suppose maybe I did ????? Sometimes ya' can't ignore the obvious.....

Too little truck/being overloaded is sort of like someone asking, "Can I terminate my wife with a 22 pistol?" and being told: "Yes, under the right conditions" or "No, you need a 9MM at least if you want to do it right"....

Well, to me, both the question and the responses are "obvious".. The correct answer is: "No, you can't terminate your wife, but you do need to very seriously reconsider what you're attempting to do"....

Same here: Your truck is "under equipped with enough payload and you seriously need to reconsider hitching a 17000 pound trailer to a F250."..... YMMV

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by RV Vacation

.
.

Air bags for F250 tow vehicle pulling a fifth wheel.

Firestone Red Label 7500 versus Airllft XL 7500 versus X brand 7500?


Also, considering the additional cost, would the on board control system (compressor/remote/etc.) be recommended versus inflating the bags using an air compressor?

I’ve been running airlift 5000s on my 2007 GMC since the day I bought the truck.. I opted for the on board compressor as well.. it gives me the abu,its to adjust as needed while going down the road..

I would not be without them nor the ability to easily adjust air pressure based on road, loads, etc.. on board compressor is just a gotta have.. IMO

[RV Vacation]

Thanks flybou and with all do respect, I knew what the pin weight was along with the expected cargo weight well before I purchased the truck.

I saw no problem then and I see no problem now.

[RV Vacation]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

I suppose maybe I did ????? Sometimes ya' can't ignore the obvious.....

Too little truck/being overloaded is sort of like someone asking, "Can I terminate my wife with a 22 pistol?" and being told: "Yes, under the right conditions" or "No, you need a 9MM at least if you want to do it right"....

Well, to me, both the question and the responses are "obvious".. The correct answer is: "No, you can't terminate your wife, but you do need to very seriously reconsider what you're attempting to do"....

Same here: Your truck is "under equipped with enough payload and you seriously need to reconsider hitching a 17000 pound trailer to a F250."..... YMMV

Say what? First you are wrong on the pin weight, second you are wrong on my fifth wheel setup, third you have no idea what my payload consist of fourth I ain't even going near the other stuff you just spewed. Geez already!!

[Gamma]

I have the airlift 5000 series. Works great, I have no leaks. Bought a “y” fitting to fill both bags at once. Mounted the valve inside my fuel door just above and to the right of the def fill. Couldn’t be happier. I use a ryobi 18v compressor that has a digital preset gauge. I am usually at 50 lbs when pulling and if you leave it a 10 when not pulling the ride seems a bit smoother. Both get great reviews, you can’t go wrong with either. Do you have a puck system?

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by RV Vacation

Who said anything about being overloaded?

Even if that were the case I would just plead "that's the industry standard and therefore it should be accepted". AmIrite?

I don't think anyone has to mention overloaded with the combo you have. It's going to be a fact. There is no "industry standard" for towing over gvwr, which you obviously will be - they all say don't do it. Now, if referencing the fact that the standard seems to be that everyone thinks the 3/4 ton trucks are as big as they need to get? Yep, looks like lots of them erroneously think that. Is it wise to put you and DW in that position? Not at all. IMO anyone that tows should bring up an overweight situation for the safety not only of the owner but everyone else. Anyone driving a 30k lb. combo down the highway has to have someone alert them if there is a problem....unfortunately there are no RV weight police in the state law enforcement divisions.

I went through 3 trucks; boom, boom, boom because I 1) didn't want the HD truck which made me go 1 increment at a time but then 2) looking at DW beside me traveling thousands of miles overweight knowing she thought I was doing everything to "keep her safe" and I was consciously doing anything but - I decided there was no way I could do that. When towing grossly overweight which you will be (or very close - grossly) you don't know which component is the "weakest" at any given moment and what will fail. The one sure thing is that air bags will not do a thing for the weight situation. I could recite the weights and the safe parameters for each; you could cite scale readings if you have done that but I don't think so. One thing is for sure when towing a big rig - ignorance is not bliss and not safe nor does it make a situation not exist. JMO.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by RV Vacation

Say what? First you are wrong on the pin weight, second you are wrong on my fifth wheel setup, third you have no idea what my payload consist of fourth I ain't even going near the other stuff you just spewed. Geez already!!

Shoot the messenger. I'm big enough to take the flak and still be OK with myself.

I'm not wrong about the pin weight. It's going to be a minimum of 20% of your trailer total weight. Being a "full timer" in a 41' Montana, you aren't going to have a pin weight less than 3000 pounds when loaded. Add a 300 pound fifth wheel hitch and you're putting 3300 pounds PLUS in the bed and that does not include any other cargo or passengers.

The BASE CURB WEIGHT for the F250 CC 4x4 XL with no options is 7331. The Lariat package adds a minimum of 300 pounds to that base. So your truck weighs in at 7631 minimum. That leaves a payload around 2369. You can do the math for yourself.

If you have a 4x2 truck, the BASE CURB WEIGHT for the XL is 6142. The payload for the XL is 3858. Add the 300 pounds for Lariat package and you're at 3558 MAXIMUM payload. That same pin weight still won't fit with passengers and other cargo...

As for the "other stuff", it's all rhetorical comparison NOT A RECOMMENDATION !!!!!

Now, sometime when nobody is looking, drive your rig over a CAT scale and see for yourself just exactly what the truck weighs, what the trailer weighs and what the rig weighs...

I've got a F250 diesel, I can EASILY pull your trailer at 80MPH all day long. BUT: I can't leave the parking lot with your trailer in tow without being overweight. There is a difference in CAN PULL and CAN TOW PROPERLY....

I'm not "putting you down" and won't respond further. I just ask you to listen to what I said, go across a CAT scale and if I'm wrong, Post the scale certificate and I'll apologize for even bringing your weight status to light. But, if I'm right, then you have some choices and decisions to make, not for me, but for yourself and the other people who share the highway with you when you tow.

Do yourself a favor, not me a favor and get some "real world verification" of your weight status. You owe that to yourself and your wife of 49 years.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by RV Vacation

Thanks flybou and with all do respect, I knew what the pin weight was along with the expected cargo weight well before I purchased the truck.

I saw no problem then and I see no problem now.

Good luck with that and safe travels.

[RV Vacation]

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Thank you to all those responding. Especially the self proclaimed experts who speculate and assume they know my exact situation and [tsk tsk tsk] now trying to cya because you "do not know me or my rig" and I can (did) call your bluff.

The really dangerous situations involving "overloaded" as I see it, stems from those using the "rule of thumb" method to calculate pin weight. You folks are pushing the envelope if you abide by that rule. Oh I know, the equation is close or is it in your case.

You self proclaimed experts factor in the length of my RV, the weight of my pin hitch and claim you know my RV weight is maxed because I full time and the real knee slapper, you know all the weight of the passengers and other stuff in the truck. I especially would like to thank those recommending me to sneak in and use a CAT scale. That is a great idea, duh why would I never think of that one is beyond me?

Well guys here is an idea. Pull your loaded rig onto a scale just so the tow vehicle axles are getting weighed. Drop the trailer and reweigh the tow vehicle. Then come back and tell me if I am overloaded per your "equation" pssst you do not need CAT scales. A local sand and gravel yard will usually have sufficient scales.

Not to bust the bubble of you experts assuming I was installing air bags because I was overloaded, but did you know airbags greatly reduce the wear and tear on a vehicle AND makes for much easier driving and handling and thus reduces driver fatigue? hmmm there's an idea eh?

Moving forward, I do want to thank those providing positive information regarding the original question of which air system they would recommend.


Now if I may ask, Ranch Hand Legend grill guard versus brand X?

[notanlines]

I believe the Ranch Hand to be best because at 159 pounds it will bring the nose of your loaded F250 back down a li…..oops, sorry about that!��

[firestation12]

Partial quote from RV Vacation:
Well guys here is an idea. Pull your loaded rig onto a scale just so the tow vehicle axles are getting weighed. Drop the trailer and reweigh the tow vehicle. Then come back and tell me if I am overloaded per your "equation" pssst you do not need CAT scales. A local sand and gravel yard will usually have sufficient scales. End of quote

I once had a friend (now deceased) who vehemently believed that putting a large fish in a bucket of water wouldn’t change the weight of just the bucket + water sans the fish because the fish was neutrally buoyant in the water. I see a simulator error in thinking, that weighing just the 2 axles while the front of the camper is is supported by the tow vehicle (not on the scale), then unhitching the camper and weighing just the truck. If RV Vacation does actually get around to humoring us, I’d like to see what the rear axle load of the tow vehicle is, when hitched up with water, propane, passengers, full fuel, a generator (if applicable) and storage compartments stocked with items he would normally carry. I’m betting the 2 rear tires of his tow vehicle will be carrying more weight than the sidewall rating. That folks is dangerous. As others have predicted, the gross rear axle rating will also be exceeded. Also not safe.

[Matty Rich]

Originally Posted by RV Vacation

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Thank you to all those responding. Especially the self proclaimed experts who speculate and assume they know my exact situation and [tsk tsk tsk] now trying to cya because you "do not know me or my rig" and I can (did) call your bluff.

The really dangerous situations involving "overloaded" as I see it, stems from those using the "rule of thumb" method to calculate pin weight. You folks are pushing the envelope if you abide by that rule. Oh I know, the equation is close or is it in your case.

You self proclaimed experts factor in the length of my RV, the weight of my pin hitch and claim you know my RV weight is maxed because I full time and the real knee slapper, you know all the weight of the passengers and other stuff in the truck. I especially would like to thank those recommending me to sneak in and use a CAT scale. That is a great idea, duh why would I never think of that one is beyond me?

Well guys here is an idea. Pull your loaded rig onto a scale just so the tow vehicle axles are getting weighed. Drop the trailer and reweigh the tow vehicle. Then come back and tell me if I am overloaded per your "equation" pssst you do not need CAT scales. A local sand and gravel yard will usually have sufficient scales.

Not to bust the bubble of you experts assuming I was installing air bags because I was overloaded, but did you know airbags greatly reduce the wear and tear on a vehicle AND makes for much easier driving and handling and thus reduces driver fatigue? hmmm there's an idea eh?

Moving forward, I do want to thank those providing positive information regarding the original question of which air system they would recommend.


Now if I may ask, Ranch Hand Legend grill guard versus brand X?

It’s normal around here for people to chime in and provide problems instead of answers to questions when it comes to tow vehicles and weight.

I’m not one of those people; so here’s my thoughts.

I personally like Air Lift on my Ram because they offer internal bump stops and the factory stops need to be removed to install the bags. Not sure how the Ford system is; but if you need to remove the bump stops I would go with AirLift.
I have DayStar cradles for the bags, so the lower portion of the bag isn’t bolted to anything. When unloaded; they move freely and allow plenty of suspension travel.
I also have the on board compressor. It’s very convenient and easy.
I plumbed a manual full line also; and something I do when I’m daily driving and not loaded, is pull the fuse of the compressor and remove the valve stem on the manual fill line.
This allows the bags to carry no pressure, and has the internal bump stops there for safety. They say not to run bags empty, but with the DayStar cradles I see no issue.
My truck rides amazing unloaded and great loaded.

Not to add fuel the fire; but I know someone who did not care about truck numbers and legal limits. He towed a custom race trailer that had a pin weight of #5000+ with a 3/4 ton and airbags. He probably towed it for 30k miles without a single issue. He now has a dually and is within limits.
In my opinion; with new model SRW truck; the limiting factor is the sticker not the equipment.