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Old 05-13-2019, 11:16 AM   #21
KYFamily
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Most people either don't care or don't know they have enough truck. Most look at what it can pull and dont have not clue about GVWR. I was once there and everyone I know that pulls with a 3/4 ton are over their GVWR. It doesn't take much to be overweight with these 5th wheels. When weighed mine I was over GVWR by 200lbs (Fully Loaded). Already had the camper and truck so I rolled the dice. Pulled it that way for 5 years. Flame all you want to but never had an issue and never felt the truck was on the verge of a disaster. I have since changed to a truck with more payload than I'll probably ever use but I am more aware of capabilities than I once was.
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Old 05-13-2019, 11:29 AM   #22
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I think I posted something similar before but we stumbled into something that worked by accident. We bought the truck as a replacement for another that was on its last legs with no thought about travel trailers. A few weeks later we were at the RV dealer signing papers on a trailer that just happened to be a fairly good match for the truck.

Didn't have a clue what we were doing though. If not for the recent truck purchase making for a tight budget (and the DW falling for the wide rear windows on the 1750RD) we could have easily ended up with something a lot bigger that would not have been fun or even safe to tow. Like I said, blind luck.
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Old 05-13-2019, 11:39 AM   #23
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You mean this one...Attachment 21794
Chip, sorry! Thatís an Ďeasyí button in disguise.
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Old 05-13-2019, 11:49 AM   #24
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You mean this one...Attachment 21794
Dang man, you've got all the nice toys.

Just don't use this one on me.....

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Old 05-13-2019, 04:31 PM   #25
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My personnel favorite, when they know they are overloaded but not willing or acknowledge it is......"I hardly know it's back there" That's one of those..."When their lips are moving, you know they're lying" statements.
Add me to this too. I hardly know it is back there when Iím stopped at a traffic light.
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Old 05-13-2019, 08:31 PM   #26
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Add me to this !!! IMHO, anybody (I mean EVERYBODY) who says, "I hardly know it's back there" should turn in their driver's license, head to the nearest neurologist for a brain scan and "hire Miss Daisy's driver" to manage their transportation requirements !!!!! Translated: If you don't know (and can't feel) 5000 pounds behind your vehicle, then you really, REALLY have no business operating machinery on the public highways !!!!!
I can't speak for others that use the phrase "I hardly know it's back there" but for me it means that my towing is relaxed and comfortable. When the semis roll past me, my rig moves as a unit and doesn't squirm all over the road. I don't have "white knuckle" trips and I arrive relaxed at my destination.
That's what I mean when I say "I hardly know it's back there", not "I don't know (and can't feel) 5000 pounds behind my truck.". I kind of doubt many people mean that.
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Old 05-13-2019, 09:57 PM   #27
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On the facebook pages,the ones that inquire, are sometimes open to listening about why their combo is undersized. But just as sure as a few of us (the dreaded weight police) come along and offer up the facts of why they are overloaded, some meat stick (usually a bunch of meat sticks), will post right up behind you and tell them that they need to ignore the weight police because according to them, you need a Dually to pull a pop up camper.
Apparently, that's the name of the game with "freelance Facebook" posters. Even on a FB group I visit for the lightweight Bullets, the non-sense opinions are overwhelmingly the majority. Just because the "dry weight" is 6,500 lbs, many justify the inadequacy of their tow vehicle (Durango's, Traverse's, Yukons, Burbs) with manufacturer advertised claims.

Case in point, FCA markets towing capacities on their performance web page of the Durango. "Big numbers mean big power" and "Best in-class maximum towing capacity" are bold headers that only solidify the opinions of owners or potential owners. Most don't dig any deeper and sound off on social media when some informed RVer brings the conversation back to earth.
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Old 05-14-2019, 02:50 AM   #28
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Us too. Got the truck first, and even then all I knew what I wanted a V8. I knew nothing at the time about rear ends, GVWR, etc. Then we bought a trailer that was small (20ft) mainly because as newbies we didn't want something big.

We just got lucky.
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Old 05-14-2019, 07:43 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by FlyingAroundRV View Post
I can't speak for others that use the phrase "I hardly know it's back there" but for me it means that my towing is relaxed and comfortable. When the semis roll past me, my rig moves as a unit and doesn't squirm all over the road. I don't have "white knuckle" trips and I arrive relaxed at my destination.
That's what I mean when I say "I hardly know it's back there", not "I don't know (and can't feel) 5000 pounds behind my truck.". I kind of doubt many people mean that.
What you mean and what a "novice RV'er hears" are often two entirely different things. When "talking" to an "unknown" on the internet, it's always (IMHO) prudent to express ideas clearly and distinctly with words that don't lend themselves to misinterpretation. On this forum, the phrase, "I hardly know it's back there" is most often a part of a post that goes on to say, "I do it all the time with my XXX (undersized tow vehicle/oversized trailer) and I hardly know it's back there.....

When hearing this kind of "nonsense" it's likely that a novice will interpret that communication much differently than a seasoned RV'er. When someone is "looking for an endorsement to their problem, they often will "seek permission" in any post they can twist to fit their agenda.

Not that I feel the need to explain my post (again), but I do strongly feel that phrases (no matter how they are intended) are much too often "interpreted the way the reader wants them to sound" so they can justify whatever they are "hoping will pan out"......

We do a novice RV'er a dis-service when we "pump BS" in a post with easily misinterpreted words and phrases. I say, save (or leave) the boastful key phrases to the automobile advertising, it does enough harm there without bringing it onto the forum where we ought to be dealing with reality, not "catch phrases".....

Of course, as always, YMMV as this is MHO.
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Old 05-14-2019, 01:27 PM   #30
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^^^^^ As some may recall I comment many times on how what we say is "heard" or "interpreted" by a novice. Many times someone unknowing, or uncaring, is simply looking for some sort of verbiage that can be construed to affirm, in their mind, a questionable or unworkable situation. Sometimes it's because they truly don't know and are a little worried, sometimes it's because they are completely overloaded and know it but look for validation.

As far as the phrase "don't even know it's back there", I think it's an incorrect statement. If there is something hooked to one of my vehicles I "know" it's back there (at least I hope so) all the time. Whether it's bouncing around, pushing/pulling, swaying, killing acceleration/mileage etc. or simply jangling the chains....I KNOW it's back there....all the time. I know it's easy to just type out a catch phrase but sometimes they truly can be misleading.

I've not addressed the "why you didn't buy enough truck" from my perspective. I think it is a complicated issue. Weights and towing are sort of complicated. Wanting an RV and go have fun is not complicated - it sounds fun....and so, many folks WANT to get an RV and go have fun. That's when the fun begins. The guy that has the RV also wants you to go have fun....so he can have your money. The guy selling you the truck wants you to go have fun....so he can have your money. Weights complicate things, cause questions, concerns and worries. So that new family that wants to have a new RV and go have fun gets all the boxes checked at every place they stop and look. Then....real life sets in. Some study up and realize the mistake and then correct it. Some have to wait a bit towing overweight knowingly but correct it as soon as they can. Some don't believe it because the sales guy said we're good and then some just don't care. So there is where a lot of the "why you didn'g buy enough truck" comes from.


In addition, the truck manufacturers advertise towing ability only...they PUSH it constantly. That's what the buyer hears and looks at. The RV manufacturers push their "light weight" units, "half ton towables" etc. claiming virtually anything down to a Yugo can pull one of their units off the lot. THEN you have publications like Trailer Life (they tend to aggravate me ) that tend to stress the towing capacity as well. It seems at times to me that they are trying to "sell" the trailer/truck rather than giving the objective, detailed report I would like to have. When you add all that up it is completely understandable that a person buys a truck that isn't enough and then is stunned, saying "what???" when someone mentions the weights. I guess the trick is what do you do when you've found you made a mistake (hopefully they studied up)? Hopefully correct it vs getting mad or just ignoring the situation.

That's JMO in a nutshell . Just got in from a 4 1/2hr drive with construction so thought I would "let off a little energy" on the keyboard. As always, YMMV.
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Old 05-14-2019, 04:18 PM   #31
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... I guess the trick is what do you do when you've found you made a mistake (hopefully they studied up)? Hopefully correct it vs getting mad or just ignoring the situation. ...
And then there's the other solution to making a mistake; Double down and deny, deny, deny. IMHO, the reality deniers are the most dangerous and intractable.
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Old 05-15-2019, 05:02 AM   #32
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I have seen more SUV's with bumper pulls on their side in our travels than pickup trucks!!!
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Old 05-15-2019, 05:22 AM   #33
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It's definately challenging. Ignorance is bliss until disaster strikes. Deniers deny until disaster strikes. It's all well and good until it isn't. No one knows when the one situation will occur that will test the limits of your rig. It may never happen. The wise will be prepared just in case.
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Old 05-16-2019, 04:07 PM   #34
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My personnel favorite, when they know they are overloaded but not willing or acknowledge it is......"I hardly know it's back there" That's one of those..."When their lips are moving, you know they're lying" statements.
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Add me to this too. I hardly know it is back there when Iím stopped at a traffic light.

I know I will get flamed for this one!!

I will state there is a BIG difference between towing a TT near, at, or over ratings, than towing a 5er over ratings!

I will say there were many times towing our 12,300# 5er with our 2001 Ram 2500 1,700# over GVWR, "I didn't know it was back there!" This included driving down the interstate, and two lane state highways. Wind on the coast, semis passing both ways the package was solid. If it wasn't I would have gotten rid of the 5er or upgraded the TV sooner.
This is the hard part of convincing someone towing a 5er over GVWR, you just don't notice it, the physics of towing a 5er are SOLID. I can't ever remember feeling being affected by wind, this included driving south on 101 exposed directly to gale force winds off of the Pacific.

Now those towing a TT at or near max ratings start having problems with sway, complain of ill handling in light winds, long TT and passing semi's push. You just don't see this with 5th wheels.

This is why we are seeing more and more towing 5er's with 1/2 ton pickups. Are they over GVWR most likely except for maybe the F150's with the Max/Max package, do they feel it when towing, not likely.
It scares me that most likely some are exceeding tire ratings and are not aware of it.

The only times I knew my 5er was back there was climbing hills as it was a manual and I needed to drop a gear and put my foot in it, and getting going from a stop, with 3.55's and about 300 hp, I did need to wind it a bit to get to speed. Coming down those hills, PacBrake kept the speed in check without needing the service brakes.

Yes, I am much happier with the 2016 Ram 3500 DRW, but the 2001 Ram 2500 did the job well. This is why many towing 5er over GVWR state "I Don't Even Know It Is Back There!"
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Old 05-17-2019, 02:51 AM   #35
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Russ, flamer or not, I agree with all of what you said other than the "I hardly knew it was back there." This brings us to the age-old discussion of weight distribution hitches, anti-sway equipment and proper setup. Fifth wheel hitches grouped together still put the king pin at or near the rear axle and don't move while driving. They all perform the same service, just in different configurations. They all perform the same in no wind or in high wind within reason. Not so for WDH's. Towing a 32' Bullet with a WDH costing $280 vs a WDH system costing $1200 is like night and day.
See? Now that wasn't so bad, was it? Less pain than a flu shot...
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Old 05-19-2019, 07:17 AM   #36
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I have often wondered why, if some has an idea they will be actually hauling and towing (even lighter towing), that they don't just get a 3/4 ton over a 1/2 ton pickup. I have found, in many cases, that one can get a well spec'd 3/4 ton for the same or even less price than a well spec'd 1/2 ton. Pricing is all about what the market will bear and volume of sales. The 1/2 tons are not nearly the value for the dollar that the 3/4 tons are. And we would have fewer of these types of discussions if some folks invested their money better and sought out the best value.
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Old 05-19-2019, 07:28 AM   #37
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I have a 3500 DRW GMC pulling a 3602 Raptor that weighs in at 15K.

For the "i don't even know that it is back there" crowd, i say BS. My TV is more than ample to pull my 5vr and I can tell you that you always know that is is back there. Whether it being going up or down hills/mountains, towing in crosswinds, being passed by a semi or my frequent stops for diesel fuel. Yea, anyone that tows know that the trailer is back there, regardless if the complete tow rig is in spec or not.

I am of the opinion that anyone that makes that statement is simply attempting a defense mechanism for knowing that they are towing outside the parameters of the rig that they are operating. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 05-19-2019, 07:36 AM   #38
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As most of you know, I recently bought another brand and I am a member there also, plus three of the facebook pages pertaining to the brand, model and exact model number that I have. If you think it's BAD here, to use an old phrase....."You ain't seen nothin yet". At least on here, folks will come on and ask opinions about their truck/trailer combo and many times, after many of us offer up why it is not adequate (or it may be), they get the message and proceed to do what they can to rectify their under sized tow vehicle. On the facebook pages,the ones that inquire, are sometimes open to listening about why their combo is undersized. But just as sure as a few of us (the dreaded weight police) come along and offer up the facts of why they are overloaded, some meat stick (usually a bunch of meat sticks), will post right up behind you and tell them that they need to ignore the weight police because according to them, you need a Dually to pull a pop up camper. One guy I recently tried to set straight has looked at the payload numbers, based on the "maximum towing capacity" for that one ton truck. I tried to explain it was not the correct number to use, that he needed to look on the door sticker for the number for HIS truck....not an ad or brochure. He basically told me I didn't have a clue and that was wrong. Well, I added in some more less than kind remarks and just had to let it go. I swear, there is a metric sh!t ton of stupid over there.....but I keep trying.
I second your comment. On another forum I subscribe to, a forum for a competitor, their top of the line 5th wheels are heavy. One individual weighed in (no pun intended) that he had a 2015 2500 with a diesel engine an a cargo capacity of around 2300 lbs and towed weight of a little over 17,000. The fiver he was looking at put him 700 lbs of pin weight and close to the towed weight dry.
Well, one individual told him that that was close enough and to go for it.
In looking at the specs for the RV my 2016 Ram 3500 SRW with HO Cummins and Aisin transmission would be closed to max on all of the weights so I told the person inquiring about his 2500 working with an RV that should only be towed by a dual wheel truck.
I reminded him about the shark in a movie where Sheriff Brody states they are going to need a bigger boat, and to treat that RV as that shark.
He agreed, he will need a bigger truck.
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Old 05-19-2019, 08:48 AM   #39
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Russ, flamer or not, I agree with all of what you said other than the "I hardly knew it was back there." This brings us to the age-old discussion of weight distribution hitches, anti-sway equipment and proper setup. Fifth wheel hitches grouped together still put the king pin at or near the rear axle and don't move while driving. They all perform the same service, just in different configurations. They all perform the same in no wind or in high wind within reason. Not so for WDH's. Towing a 32' Bullet with a WDH costing $280 vs a WDH system costing $1200 is like night and day.
See? Now that wasn't so bad, was it? Less pain than a flu shot...
Agreed. A Hensley or Propride certainly levels the playing field a bit...
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Old 05-19-2019, 10:25 AM   #40
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I have often wondered why, if some has an idea they will be actually hauling and towing (even lighter towing), that they don't just get a 3/4 ton over a 1/2 ton pickup. I have found, in many cases, that one can get a well spec'd 3/4 ton for the same or even less price than a well spec'd 1/2 ton. Pricing is all about what the market will bear and volume of sales. The 1/2 tons are not nearly the value for the dollar that the 3/4 tons are. And we would have fewer of these types of discussions if some folks invested their money better and sought out the best value.
To carry that step one further, why stop at a 250/2500 if getting a diesel, they are heavy and with a Max GVWR of 10K they have a limited payload.
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