Slide out darco tearing

[KenJFerguson]

Good tip. If done this way it should result in the Darco never touching the wear bar again as it is lifted above it by the rollers running on the UHMW. - Ken

[KenJFerguson]

Originally Posted by firestation12

Ken, I bought rollers as you are planning to do, but never installed them. Unlike some of the slide outs that move linearly in and out, the slide out in question has to climb up over the vinyl floor and conversely has to drop down to slide into place in the full out position. I don’t think that can happen with the rollers. At least that is what imagined as I actually started the installation. YMMV.

Thanks for the heads-up. I checked and mine is, as you say, linear... rides on the wear bar the whole way in and out.

[dutchmensport]

Originally Posted by dutchmensport

... another gentle reminder I need to get off my butt and get mine fixed .... like ...... real soon.

...

OK, I fixed it. It took me about 3 weeks to do it. I posted last in April, shortly before heading out for 2 months in Louisiana as a camp host. Then 2 months in North Carolina as a camp host.

The maintenance shop folks at the NC state park let me use a hydraulic bottle jack and I was able to use that to lift each side of the slide out for access between the rollers and the bottom of the slide and open that gap in the middle too.

I purchased a set of skies from a nearby RV dealership, but they did not have a set wide enough for my rollers. I went ahead and took them. They cost $100 for the set. I thought that was really steep and they weren't what I really wanted, but I decided to make-do anyway.

Thus, I devised a "Plan B". I went to Lowe's Hardware and purchased a Poly Wall Panel. I've used this stuff in the past for several bathroom remodels I've done. It's extremely durable, a hard rubber, resistant to everything from water to battery acid, and lasts forever.

I decided to recover the entire bottom, but had to do it in sections. Plus the one 4x8 foot sheet I purchased was not enough to cover the entire thing. I used what I could out of the first panel.

The procedure was pretty straight forward. I pulled the slide in about 6 inches and then relaxed all the slide cables. I relaxed only 1 side at a time because I found out the cables would not permit me to lift the slide with the jack. They were too tight. So, they had to be relaxed.

Jack in place I was able to remove the side trim and insert the white poly board. After inserting, I used 3M mounting tape and attached the poly board panel on one side. Then I used the double sided sticky stuff on the ski and inserted it.

Lowered the jack and did the same to the other side.

Last, was the middle which I finished out a few days later. This time I did not have to relax the cables as the long slide out floor and lots of "give" in it and I was able to easily install a middle panel. Again, that double sided tape, mounting tape worked great!

After I got everything in place, I added a few screws to keep anything from shifting. That tape is great, but enough stress, and it can move. The screws would help keep the panel in place.

The last step was to replace that trim on the side, which would not fit now. It was designed to catch under the outside edge of the wall, but not under the slide out.

I ended up getting a flat metal trim, cut it length, drilled holes and was able to slide it in. There is an upright metal roller inside the upright wall that prevents the slide from moving forward or backward in the slide cut out hole. I was finally able to wedge that metal in, screw it down and call it done.

I have one more step, and I'll do that when I get home. I need to spray paint that aluminum strip black so it won't be quite so noticeable.

Now, the photos:

Here is the middle strip after I had it in place and after attaching the double sided mounting tape. Yes, I used a BUNCH of the mounting tape.









From this angle, you can see the skies. The most important thing about the skies is the fact they are L shaped and come up over the side wall of the slide. I also purchased a large roll of Butyl tape and stuffed any gaps full of that stuff before the final placement of the ski. Once in place I pressed it in place and that double sided take that came with ski adhered.



Here's a photo after I did the final attach of the middle. The entire under side is now sealed. However, the edge of the outside still has exposed Draco (the black) along the outside edge. But that does not rub when it slides and I did not want to take the time to cut out notches to fit everything that is attached to the floor, like the water line going to the refrigerator ice make.



And here's the outside after attaching a new metal trim. The trim catches the lip of the ski, it also is filled with Butyl tape putty, and it also screws the outside of the wall back to the aluminum frame for the slide.

The end result? It all works pretty good again.

[KenJFerguson]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Make sure the rollers run on the uhmw. The rollers on darco just leads to further problems.

Your caution about having the UHMW run on top of the slide rollers makes sense but I am wondering if there will be unexpected ramifications with the extra 1/8" thickness of those strips running on top of the rollers that will be lifting the slideout over the wear bar.

I ask because when ordering the rollers they make a big to-do about making sure you get the right ones for your wear bar - 1/2 or 3/4" ... I bought the 1/2" ones based on my 1/2" high wear bar.

Just booked our first trip since the spring and have 13 days to get this job done.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by KenJFerguson

Your caution about having the UHMW run on top of the slide rollers makes sense but I am wondering if there will be unexpected ramifications with the extra 1/8" thickness of those strips running on top of the rollers that will be lifting the slideout over the wear bar.

I ask because when ordering the rollers they make a big to-do about making sure you get the right ones for your wear bar - 1/2 or 3/4" ... I bought the 1/2" ones based on my 1/2" high wear bar.

Just booked our first trip since the spring and have 13 days to get this job done.

Where did you buy the rollers and who was doing the cautioning? I've not installed rollers with the uhmw strips as there was not any need. I have seen rollers on uhmw strips and rollers that ran on darco - uhmw holds up and darco does not. If using 1/8" uhmw I'm not sure there would be an issue but I do see an issue if you installed 3/4 rollers with a 1/2" wear bar or vice versa. If the rollers are the same height as the wear bar and installed that way the 1/8" height over that should cause no issue as it would be the same as adding 1/8" uhmw over the darco that then rides on top of the wear bar.

[KenJFerguson]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Where did you buy the rollers and who was doing the cautioning? I've not installed rollers with the uhmw strips as there was not any need. I have seen rollers on uhmw strips and rollers that ran on darco - uhmw holds up and darco does not. If using 1/8" uhmw I'm not sure there would be an issue but I do see an issue if you installed 3/4 rollers with a 1/2" wear bar or vice versa. If the rollers are the same height as the wear bar and installed that way the 1/8" height over that should cause no issue as it would be the same as adding 1/8" uhmw over the darco that then rides on top of the wear bar.

I bought the BAL-made rollers NIB from an RV dealer's online store. I did get a call from Customer Support at BAL who told me that it wouldn't be a problem although there may be some cable adjusting needed to ensure the top of the slide-out didn't bind at all with the top of the frame.

My challenge right now is buying the UHMW ... looking at prices for a 1/8 x 24 X 48 sheet they are all over the place ... McMaster is $51 + shipping + $94, Interstate Plastics is $47 +$50 handling and $100 shipping = $198, Buyplastic on ebay is $92 + free shipping, Shapes Plastics on ebay is $53 + free shipping. This variation has me thinking there must be differences in types and quality of UHMW and I want to make sure I order the correct one.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by KenJFerguson

I bought the BAL-made rollers NIB from an RV dealer's online store. I did get a call from Customer Support at BAL who told me that it wouldn't be a problem although there may be some cable adjusting needed to ensure the top of the slide-out didn't bind at all with the top of the frame.

My challenge right now is buying the UHMW ... looking at prices for a 1/8 x 24 X 48 sheet they are all over the place ... McMaster is $51 + shipping + $94, Interstate Plastics is $47 +$50 handling and $100 shipping = $198, Buyplastic on ebay is $92 + free shipping, Shapes Plastics on ebay is $53 + free shipping. This variation has me thinking there must be differences in types and quality of UHMW and I want to make sure I order the correct one.

Plain uhmw is uhmw as far as I know. The do have a few grades of it from "reprocessed" (cheaper) to some kind of xray detectable etc. Those should be specified when ordering. I got some from U.S. Plastic which was reasonable and they were professional. Right now they are showing that same size strip at 101.88 and 46.29 shipping to your city. The material isn't cheap but it's probably the very best material for this specific use because that type of application is what it's made for.

As far as suppliers I stick with known corporations/businesses and don't deal with ebay. I know lots of folks like ebay but I tried it twice and was less than pleased. I don't know that you would have any idea what kind of product you were getting.

I've put 1/8" uhmw on my last 2 trailers and didn't have to do a thing to adjust my cable slides. If the rollers are at the same height as the wear bar I would think yours would be the same unless they were on the edge of needing some sort of adjustment or something. You can cut it with a table saw if you want....I have quite a bit.

[KenJFerguson]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Plain uhmw is uhmw as far as I know. The do have a few grades of it from "reprocessed" (cheaper) to some kind of xray detectable etc. Those should be specified when ordering. I got some from U.S. Plastic which was reasonable and they were professional. Right now they are showing that same size strip at 101.88 and 46.29 shipping to your city. The material isn't cheap but it's probably the very best material for this specific use because that type of application is what it's made for.

As far as suppliers I stick with known corporations/businesses and don't deal with ebay. I know lots of folks like ebay but I tried it twice and was less than pleased. I don't know that you would have any idea what kind of product you were getting.

I've put 1/8" uhmw on my last 2 trailers and didn't have to do a thing to adjust my cable slides. If the rollers are at the same height as the wear bar I would think yours would be the same unless they were on the edge of needing some sort of adjustment or something. You can cut it with a table saw if you want....I have quite a bit.

Thank you for that education. My research did show several "grades" but none of the sellers show the grade they are selling although some talk about TIVAR which was developed by Mitsubish Chemical. Time for more research and I'll get back to you.

[Hblick48]

Originally Posted by KenJFerguson

I bought the BAL-made rollers NIB from an RV dealer's online store. I did get a call from Customer Support at BAL who told me that it wouldn't be a problem although there may be some cable adjusting needed to ensure the top of the slide-out didn't bind at all with the top of the frame.

My challenge right now is buying the UHMW ... looking at prices for a 1/8 x 24 X 48 sheet they are all over the place ... McMaster is $51 + shipping + $94, Interstate Plastics is $47 +$50 handling and $100 shipping = $198, Buyplastic on ebay is $92 + free shipping, Shapes Plastics on ebay is $53 + free shipping. This variation has me thinking there must be differences in types and quality of UHMW and I want to make sure I order the correct one.

I purchased my UHMW from Grainger since there's no freight charge if you pickup at one of their stores. Of course, that only works if you're close to a store.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by KenJFerguson

Thank you for that education. My research did show several "grades" but none of the sellers show the grade they are selling although some talk about TIVAR which was developed by Mitsubish Chemical. Time for more research and I'll get back to you.

Tivar is Mitsubishi's spin on uhmw. In some places they say they have a "different" formulation and then spout the same attributes that all uhmw has. From everything I've read the DO charge more for it....I'd stick with plain uhmw. Below is a link that says a bit about Tivar and the products they've branded.

https://www.alro.com/divplastics/Pla...VARFamily.aspx

[JRTJH]

Check the strips on Amazon at this link. While there may be "cheaper" UHMW strips available, if you're a Prime member, shipping is free. When you consider "those other places" with their $50 handling and packaging fees and OUTRAGEOUS shipping charges, $120 for 4 precut strips wide enough to extend beyond the 3" rollers and long enough to span the entire width of the slide, getting all the "precut strips" and just having to countersink the holes and cut one end to the correct length makes it pretty easy to protect the DARCO and have a good wear surface for the rollers to support on the bottom of the slide.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000H43OES...v_ov_lig_dp_it

[KenJFerguson]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Check the strips on Amazon at this link. While there may be "cheaper" UHMW strips available, if you're a Prime member, shipping is free. When you consider "those other places" with their $50 handling and packaging fees and OUTRAGEOUS shipping charges, $120 for 4 precut strips wide enough to extend beyond the 3" rollers and long enough to span the entire width of the slide, getting all the "precut strips" and just having to countersink the holes and cut one end to the correct length makes it pretty easy to protect the DARCO and have a good wear surface for the rollers to support on the bottom of the slide.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000H43OES...v_ov_lig_dp_it

Excellent. I see that their physical store is in Atlanta and their site shows those strips at just $20/each making it a $60 purchase (plus drive time to pick up). I'm calling them to see if they have those strips in 1/8" as I am trying to have thin strips running on top of the rollers I am also installing so as not to affect the spacing at the top of the slideout too much. One thing that I don't understand when watching the Youtube installation video is how to drill thin 1/8' plastic for the countersink of the screw heads without going all the way through.

[KenJFerguson]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Tivar is Mitsubishi's spin on uhmw. In some places they say they have a "different" formulation and then spout the same attributes that all uhmw has. From everything I've read the DO charge more for it....I'd stick with plain uhmw. Below is a link that says a bit about Tivar and the products they've branded.

https://www.alro.com/divplastics/Pla...VARFamily.aspx

That's a pretty informative site with all the variations of the product ... looks like TIVAR 1000 will do just fine.

[KenJFerguson]

Originally Posted by Hblick48

I purchased my UHMW from Grainger since there's no freight charge if you pickup at one of their stores. Of course, that only works if you're close to a store.

Great idea but the store in Atlanta that has it in stock according to the Grainger website is at least an hour drive for me.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by KenJFerguson

Excellent. I see that their physical store is in Atlanta and their site shows those strips at just $20/each making it a $60 purchase (plus drive time to pick up). I'm calling them to see if they have those strips in 1/8" as I am trying to have thin strips running on top of the rollers I am also installing so as not to affect the spacing at the top of the slideout too much. One thing that I don't understand when watching the Youtube installation video is how to drill thin 1/8' plastic for the countersink of the screw heads without going all the way through.

That would make it even cheaper and well worth the trip if you're in the Atlanta area...

As for countersinks, I have a bench 8" drill press that I bought 40 years ago at Sears for $39. Harbor Freight has a similar drill press at today's pricing, for $69. I just set the drill press stop where I want it and the countersink bit stops at the correct depth. That said, if you're careful and don't countersink too far, you can easily do the same with a hand drill.

Now, when you get right down to it, even if the screwheads do protrude slightly, all they are going to do is "scratch the wear bar the width of the screwhead. With the length of the wear bar, the width of the screwheads and the addition of the UHMW strips in the slide center and slide skis on the slide ends, you're still going to have a significant amount of "slide surface projecting down from the slide bottom that lifts the DARCO up, away from all the pressure of the wear bar.

To me, while I try to be as precise as I can, we're really talking about "bailing wire and tractor tolerances" not "building rocketship tolerances".

[KenJFerguson]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

That would make it even cheaper and well worth the trip if you're in the Atlanta area...

As for countersinks, I have a bench 8" drill press that I bought 40 years ago at Sears for $39. Harbor Freight has a similar drill press at today's pricing, for $69. I just set the drill press stop where I want it and the countersink bit stops at the correct depth. That said, if you're careful and don't countersink too far, you can easily do the same with a hand drill.

Now, when you get right down to it, even if the screwheads do protrude slightly, all they are going to do is "scratch the wear bar the width of the screwhead. With the length of the wear bar, the width of the screwheads and the addition of the UHMW strips in the slide center and slide skis on the slide ends, you're still going to have a significant amount of "slide surface projecting down from the slide bottom that lifts the DARCO up, away from all the pressure of the wear bar.

To me, while I try to be as precise as I can, we're really talking about "bailing wire and tractor tolerances" not "building rocketship tolerances".

Good points. I just received the UMHW strips and will install them tomorrow for a trip the next day. Ended up buying on eBay (2 of 12"x36"x1/8" Tivar 1000) Would have preferred black but at $33 for the strips and $14 shipping the total was unbeatable so I went with the white... who sees them anyway. I'll cut into 4 6"x32" strips but just use 3 of them ... edges and middle. I'll buy a countersink bit at HD and not worry about getting it exact. I did notice with the Duo Skis they use some kind of butyl tape rather than screws. Any thought on that as an alternative?

[Hblick48]

Originally Posted by KenJFerguson

I'll buy a countersink bit at HD and not worry about getting it exact. I did notice with the Duo Skis they use some kind of butyl tape rather than screws. Any thought on that as an alternative?

Get a self centering drill bit to make pilot holes for screws. Much easier than trying to center the bit in the counter sunk hole while laying on your back.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by KenJFerguson

Good points. I just received the UMHW strips and will install them tomorrow for a trip the next day. Ended up buying on eBay (2 of 12"x36"x1/8" Tivar 1000) Would have preferred black but at $33 for the strips and $14 shipping the total was unbeatable so I went with the white... who sees them anyway. I'll cut into 4 6"x32" strips but just use 3 of them ... edges and middle. I'll buy a countersink bit at HD and not worry about getting it exact. I did notice with the Duo Skis they use some kind of butyl tape rather than screws. Any thought on that as an alternative?

Adhesive might be good (I've done it) if the trailer/darco were new/almost new and the darco was securely adhered to the bottom of the slide. If the darco is damaged, old, loose, had weather intrude from perforations....screwing it in would be the better course of action. Folks have screwed them in and countersunk the screws with no apparent ill effect. I worry about screw heads protruding and ripping up the wear bar...and more so the pressure those extended screw heads put on the wear bar as they pass since it's not that secure anyway.

[JRTJH]

When it comes to using adhesive tape of any kind under the slide, I would not do it !!!!!

Why? The DARCO is the only thing you can tape to. While right now it MIGHT be adhered to the plywood/OSB underlayment flooring, what's to say that won't give way tomorrow ??? When you start pulling against the DARCO in a 6" strip rather than along the entire length and width of the slide, you're putting a lot of sheer stress on the DARCO.... All that keeps it from breaking loose is the "factory applied adhesive" to stick it to the subfloor....

I compare it to putting a command strip hanger on "cheap wallpaper"... No matter how good the command strip sticks to the wall paper, when the paper breaks away from the wall behind it, the command strip will fall with it, no matter how well it's "stuck to the paper".... Same with adhesive tape on DARCO under a slide.... When the weakest link fails, the ENTIRE assembly fails....

[ChuckS]

Going on my fourth year using UHMW strips on the edges of one of my main hydraulic slides.l have made zero adjustments in the slide, slide is smooth and very quite during motion.

The wood screws have all stayed in place ( countersunk ).. I applied a dab of black RV silicone sealant to each screw before installing the screws.

UHMW is super slick, it’s load bearing qualities are superb.. it will never wear out and it will not wear down the factory wear bars..

Gear pack teeth mesh have remained constant and no gear pack or guide bar teeth issues.

If the slide being worked on is a Schwintek slide then a minor adjustment on the rollers on the bottom might be needed if rollers roll over the UHMW.. you want to check the upper and lower V rollers on each side of the slide and make sure it takes finger pressure to move.

If they don’t move easily with finger pressure then adjust the bottom rollers where they ride against the bottom of the slide flooring